Topic: Miller's Breakdown

[Johnm]

Hi all,
I've got a new puzzler--sorry that it took me a while to find one.  The song is "French Blues", as performed by Frank Evans, who evidently was recorded by Alan Lomax in Mississippi.  He continues in our trend of really outstanding musicians showing up on field recordings.  Here is "French Blues", and I should note that the sound drops out altogether for a moment in the middle of the track.



Took that baby down to the Worldly [sic] Fair
And I took that baby down to the Worldly Fair
Aw, she's so good-lookin', I swear, she could not stay there

Tell me, tell me, what you tryin' to do
Whyn't you tell me, tell me, what you tryin' to do
Aw, you must be tryin', tryin' to break my heart in two

Tell Barrelhouse Jordy, shut the piano down
Tell Barrelhouse Jordy to shut the piano down
I ain't got no blues, and I don't want to hear them sounds

If I get drunk, who's gon' carry me home?
If I get ---
Seems like every body in the word is down on me

Tell me, tell me, what's the matter now
Whyn't you tell me, tell me, what's the matter now
Whyn't you tell me, tell me, what's the matter now

Blues was whiskey, stay drunk all the time
If the blues was whiskey, I'd stay drunk all the time
If the blues was whiskey, I would stay drunk all the time


The questions on "French Blues" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did Frank Evans use to play "French Blues"
   * Assuming that a capo operates like a zero fret or the nut, where did Frank Evans fret his IV chord phrase from :08-:11, and how did he articulate the phrase in his right hand? 
   * Where did he fret his V7 chord at :15?

As always, please use only your ears, instruments and past experience in determining your answers, and please don't post any answers until Sunday morning, October 12.  Thanks for participating.

All best,
Johnm 

[uncle bud]

Always loved this one!

[David Kaatz]

Very similar to I'm a Little Mixed Up by Betty James.


Dave

[Johnm]

"French Blues" is a new one to me, uncle bud, but I agree with you--I'm kind of smacked on it.  What a great tune.  And boy, are you right, Dave, it really is quite a lot like "I'm A Little Mixed Up".
All best,
Johnm

[Johnm]

Hi all,
I've been going back and trying to complete lyric transcriptions on all the songs in this thread.  Most of them are done, but I've been working on "Ding Dong Ring", performed by unknown and recorded by Lawrence Gellert, a very sophisticated performance, and would appreciate some help with the bent bracketed passages in the transcription.  The post is located at http://weeniecampbell.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=10188.msg88735#msg88735 .
Thanks for any help.
All best,
Johnm

[waxwing]

Johnm, sounds like the last line is "Said the sun shine down on you like a burnin' hell." I can't make out the other, which seems likely a place name.

Wax

[Johnm]

Thanks for the help, John C.!  I have made the change.
All best,
Johnm

[Prof Scratchy]

Missed the last one, so I'll have a go this time! I'm going to say E position standard tuning, capoed at the sixth fret and sounding in Bflat. The IV chord phrase is second string fifth fret and third string sixth fret, dropping in the seventh note on second string eighth fret. The V7 chord sounds to me like he's playing a regular B7 in first position but with a bent note at first string third fret.

[mr mando]

A: I agree with the Prof that "French Blues" has to be in E Position / Standard tuning capoed up 6 frets.
Q: Where did Frank Evans fret his IV chord phrase from :08-:11, and how did he articulate the phrase in his right hand?
A: relative to the capo rocking between st3/f9 and st2/f7, then st3/f9 and st2/f8, then again st3/f9 and st2/f7, and then a little run st3/f9, st2/f8, st1/f0, st2/f0 hammer f2, st1/f0. SOunds like he's using only his right hand thumb for the third and second strings and his right hand index exclusively for the first string.
Q: Where did he fret his V7 chord at :15?
A: x-2-x-2-0-3 (in agreement with Prof Scratchy)

[Pan]

Hi all

Agreed with Prof Scratchy and Mr. Mando on E-position, standard tuning, capoed at sounding around B flat.

It sounds to me. like the IV chord lick could be played at the two top strings, 1st string fretted at 2nd fret, and then changed to the 3rd, against the 2nd string fretted at the 5th fret. Both strings are then played open, to finish the lick, before returning to the I chord. I'd assume he used his thumb and index fingers on the right hand, to play the lick?

I believe Mr. Mando nailed the V7 chord, with the augmented 5th.

Cheers

Pan

[waxwing]

Like Pan, I don't see why the 0:08-0:11 lick wouldn't be played on the 1st and 2nd strings.

I hear it as starting on the + of 4 at the 2nd str./5th ft., then 1st str/2nd on the 1, 2nd str/5th on the +, 1st str/2nd on the 2, rest on the +, 1st str/3rd on the 3, 2nd str/5th on the +, 1st str/3rd on the 4, and then repeating, 2nd str/5th on the +, 1st str/2nd on the 1, 2nd str/5th on the +, 1st str/2nd on the 2, rest on the +, 1st str/3rd on the 3, then open 1st str on the + and open 2nd str on the 4.

The timing is essential when thinking about the right hand, since, if the thumb was striking the 2nd string and the index was striking the first string that would mean the index was on the beat and the thumb on the +, which seems unlikely to me, as does striking the 1st str. with the thumb and the 2nd with the index.  Since much of the rest of the song sounds to me like down-up strumming in the treble, down on the beat and up on the +, this presents two possibilities in my mind. One is that the entire song is played with a flat pick, and I can't really hear any strong evidence against this. Second, if someone does hear a bass note and a treble note played in unison that could not be strummed with a flat pick, I would suggest he is playing in a non-opposing style, where, if the thumb and index are striking together they are striking down in parallel on the beat and the index, when alone, is striking down on the beat and up on the + throughout. One tell for this kind of playing, I think, is hearing a lot of up strokes on the 1st and sometimes 2nd strings on the +(s), for instance in the playing of Henry Thomas, which would require a lot of tiringly fast picking with the index if it were only striking upward, pinching with the thumb on the beat, but becomes more relaxed if the index is playing down and up. Also in this style of playing it is possible to use the index finger as a flat pick, even supporting it with the thumb, as if a flat pick were present, for more precision. The lick is quite easily played this way, striking down on the 1st string on the beats and up on the 2nd string on the +(s) until the final two open notes, where the 1st string is on the + and the 2nd string on the beat.

Wax

P.S. Johnm, I think roig was making fun of himself as "highly professional". Maybe you were just kidding him back?

[waxwing]

Rereading mr mando's post I guess it is possible to play the notes entirely with the thumb by following through, from the 2nd string through the 1st, but it would require pretty quick recovery and good accuracy to get the lick so precisely. It still seems much easier to me, and more in keeping with the rest of the piece, with a flat pick or with index finger as pick. But I believe guitarists are capable of almost anything with practice, hence such idiosyncratic right hand playing as Snooks Eaglin. So who really knows?

Wax

[Johnm]

Hi all,
Thanks to all who responded to the Frank Evans "French Blues" puzzlers, and it seems a good time to post the answers.  This piece was a new one to me, and finding the songs in this thread has made it apparent to me that I need to acquaint myself with the field recordings of this music that were made in the 30s through the 80s in a more thorough way.  There really is so much great stuff.
Here are the puzzler answers:
   * Frank Evans did play the piece out of E position in standard tuning, capoed up around the sixth fret, in Charley Jordan territory.  Everyone had this right--good on you!
   * Frank Evans' IV chord phrase from :08--:11 in his opening solo was fretted as follows. 
   * For the entire two-measure phrase, he plays the + of each beat on his open first string, picking it with his index finger.  With his thumb, he strikes a note on every beat of the two measure phrase, and they are, in the first measure, the 7th fret of the second string on beats one and two and the 8th fret of the second string on beats three and four.  In the second measure, he hits the 7th fret of the second string on beats one and two, the 8th fret of the second string on beat three and does a hammer from the open second string to the 2nd fret of the second string on beat four.  Note that the pitches of these notes are the very same pitches (with the exception of the triplet on beat four of the second measure) as those proposed by mr mando, Pan and Wax in their solutions, but by getting the higher pitched notes on the second string and droning on the open first string, the right hand becomes greatly simplified, allowing for the thumb to strike the strongly emphasized fretted notes on the beat on the second string while the index finger simply plucks the weaker +s of each beat on the open first string. 

The underlying triplet feel gives the division of the beats a long-short, long-short, long-short, long-short feel, with the notes falling on the beat having the duration of the first two notes of the underlying triplet and the + of the beat that the index is picking being the third note of each underlying triplet.  Only in the fourth beat of the second measure of the IV chord, with the hammer to the second fret of the second string followed by the open first string are all three notes of the underlying triplet sounded.
Frank Evans' right-hand approach on this song is amazing in its consistency.  Almost without exception, he uses his thumb to either strike individual notes or brush several strings on every beat, and similarly almost without exception, he uses his index finger to hit the + of each beat on the open first or second string.  Evans is so consistent in hitting the +s with his index finger that he continues to do so while in the midst of slides or hammers in the bass, as in the + of beat 4 in the first two measures of the solo, and several other places.  In the entire opening solo, Evans never once does a pinch, picking with the thumb and index simultaneously.  It's a tribute to his invention that despite such a strictly adhered to right hand picking formula his piece nonetheless has a lot of variety and dynamics rather than being the sort of monotonous sing-songy sort of thing that just reading a description of the technique might lead one to believe would be the result.  This is both great guitar playing and a great conception.  Hats off to Frank Evans!
   * The V7 chord is just as you all had it, a normal B7 fingering apart from the first string, which he frets one fret high to get the #V of the V7 chord, as Pan had it (and the bIII of the I chord).  He fingered it X-2-1-2-0-3.

Thanks to all who participated and thanks for posting such thoughtful responses.  I felt like everybody was right in the neighborhood.  I hope folks will try out the solution for that IV chord phrase--it lays out so beautifully, it just plays itself, and it is so close to where he was fretting the two measures immediately preceding it, right up in the same area of the neck.

I'll try to find another puzzler soon.

All best,
Johnm

[uncle bud]

Hi all,
Thanks to all who responded to the Frank Evans "French Blues" puzzlers, and it seems a good time to post the answers.  This piece was a new one to me, and finding the songs in this thread has made it apparent to me that I need to acquaint myself with the field recordings of this music that were made in the 30s through the 80s in a more thorough way.  There really is so much great stuff.

There really is, and it is a shame that so much of it is not in print. That's changing a little with some of the new vinyl reissues, and I haven't checked the streaming services like Spotify and Rdio to see if they have this stuff. I guess Spotify must have some of it, since Document released some John Lomax recordings (and Alan's?). And then there's YouTube.

[Johnm]

Hi all,
I've got a new puzzler for any who might be interested.  It's been a little while since we've done one where there are several tunes with the only question being, "What playing position/tuning did the musician in question use to play this piece".  Let's do one like that. 

The first song is John Bray's "Trench Blues".  Here it is:



A couple of years ago, dj transcribed the lyrics to this performance, and they can be found at the "John Bray Lyrics" thread, located at http://weeniecampbell.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=8359.0 .

What playing position/tuning did John Bray use to play "Trench Blues?"

The second song is Bull City Red's "Pick and Shovel Blues".  Here it is:



I'm on my way to the jailhouse, baby, and I sure don't care
I'm on my way to the jailhouse, baby, and I sure don't care
And I may get lifetime and I may get the 'lectric chair

'Cause I've got to go to jail innocent, and I've got to serve my time
I've got to go to jail innocent, and I've got to serve my time
'Cause that old judge is so cruel, Lord, he won't give me no fine

Lord, I laid in jail, pretty mama, six long months and days
Lord, I laid in jail, baby, six long months and days
And I didn't have nobody to come down and go my bail

SOLO

Lord, they tell me this old jailhouse is a, that's a low-down lonesome place
Lord, this old jailhouse is a low-down lonesome place
Every morning when you rise, pick and shovel right before your face

I said, "Captain, Captain, please don't be so mean.
Captain, Captain, Captain, please don't be so mean.
You know, a pick and a shovel sure don't run by steam."

OUTRO

What position/tuning did Bull City Red use to play "Pick and Shovel Blues?"

The third song is Roosevelt Antrim's "Station Boy Blues".  Here it is:



Said, I went to the station and I looked up on the board
Said, I went to the station and I looked up on the board
I couldn't see no freight train, mama, and I couldn't hear no whistle blow

Well I'm leavin' this mornin', if I have to ride the blinds
Well I'm leavin' this mornin', if I have to ride the blinds
Says, I feel mistreated and I surely don't mind dyin'

Come home last night, mama, don't mark dinner down to me
Come home last night, don't mark dinner down to me
Then out there and you go and stay out all night for me

SOLO

Says, I woke up this morning, babe, I couldn't hardly keep from cryin'
Says, I woke up this morning, I couldn't hardly keep from cryin'
I had the blues so bad, mama, I could feel them in my natch'l hands

SOLO

Said today you want your man to die like Jesse James
Baby, do you want your man to die like Jesse James?
When I leave this town, mama, say, I ain't comin' back no more

What position/tuning did Roosevelt Antrim use to play "Station Boy Blues"?

Please use only your ears, experience and guitar to answer the questions, and please don't post any answers prior to Thursday morning, October 16, so that plenty of folks will get a chance to listen and work out their answers.  Thanks for participating.

Edited 10/18 to pick up correction from ScottN

All best,
Johnm