Topic: Miller's Breakdown

[banjochris]

Definitely not a one-trick pony. And I think there are at least 3 missing titles of his, so who knows, we may get a chance to hear some more one of these days.
Chris

[Johnm]

Hi all,
It seems like time for some more puzzlers.  The first is from David "Little David" Wylie, his "Shackles Around My Body", recorded for Regal in 1950.  Here it is:



INTRO

I says, chains around my legs, shackles around my body
I said, chains around my legs, shackles around my body
Says, I can't help myself, that's why the poor boy here

Says, I'm leavin, mama, goin' back North to stay
Yes, I'm leavin', mama, goin' back North to stay
Says, there ain't nothin' down South, yeah, that a poor man can do

I ain't got no one to love, got no one to care
Said, the only one I had to love, packed her trunk and gone (humming w/guitar)

I said, bye-bye, darling, guess I got to go
I said, bye-bye, darling, guess I got to go
'Cause I can't stay here, nothin' for the poor boy to do

OUTRO

The questions on "Shackles Around My Body" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did David Wylie use to play the song?
   * Where did David Wylie fret his IV chord from 1:00--1:06?
   * What song/performance does David Wylie emulate from 1:53--1:56, with his unison bass line and humming?

The second puzzler is also from David Wylie, and it is his performance of "Baby, You're Gonna Change Your Mind".  Here it is:



INTRO

Darling, darling, you better change your mind
Darling, darling, you better change your mind
Say, you don't change your mind, baby, says, it's gon' be too late

Say, when I come home last night, baby was out with 'nother man
When I come home last night, baby was out with 'nother man
Says, you don't change your mind, well, it gonna be too late

See you don't change your mind, darlin', somebody sure gonna ride your funeral
If you don't change your mind, somebody gonna ride your funeral alone
'Cause it's gon' be something goin' wrong, baby, before it be too late

I say, darlin', darlin', you oughta quit your barrelhouse ways
I said, darlin', darlin', you oughta quit your barrelhouse ways
Say, if you don't quit your barrelhouse ways, baby, gon' be too late

SOLO (Spoken:  Come here, boy!)

Say, you don't change your mind, well, it's gon' be too late

The questions on "Baby, You're Gonna Change Your Mind" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did David Wylie use to play the song?
   * Where did David Wylie fret the ascending triplet bass run and bend from :23--24?
   * Where is David Wylie fretting the bend he plays in the treble from 1:39--1:34, and what two notes does he hit in the bass under it?

The third puzzler is Robert Curtis Smith's "Katy Mae".  Here it is:



INTRO

Katy Mae, Katy Mae, well, now you know you don't treat me right
Katy Mae, Katy Mae, well, now you know you don't treat me right
You stays out all night long, don't do a thing but run around

Yes, you know I love you, that's why you treat me like you do
Yeah, you know I love you, that's when you treat me like you do
But that's all right, baby, that's all right for you

You's a no-good weed, and the cows won't mow you down
You's a no-good weed, and the cows won't mow you down
You stays out all night long, don't do a thing but like a clown

SOLO

The questions on "Katy Mae" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did Robert Curtis Smith use to play the song?
   * Where did Robert Curtis Smith fret what he plays from :31--:32, and how does it function in his chord progression?
   * Where did Robert Curtis Smith fret what he plays from 1:45--1:46?

As always, please use only your ears and guitars to arrive at your answers, and please don't post any answers before 8:00 AM your time on Thursday, April 13.  Thanks for participating, and I hope you enjoy the songs.

All best,
Johnm

[Old Man Ned]

For "Shackles Around My Body" I'm hearing David Wylie play out of A standard (capo at about 3rd fret).
His IV chord from 1:00--1:06 I'm hearing him walk up the open 6th string through 1st fret to the 2nd fret and play a D9 2nd, 1st frets and open for the 3rd, 2nd & 1st string respectively. Nothing is jumping out at me for the song he is emulating from 1:53--1:56. I need to listen to this some more.
   
"Baby, You're Gonna Change Your Mind" I'm hearing out of E standard (again capo at about 3rd fret).
The ascending triplet bass run and bend from at 23--24 I'm hearing on the 5th string open, 3rd and 4th frets, then 4th string 2nd fret and bend at the 5th fret.  The bend he plays in the treble from 1:39--1:44 I'm hearing at the 8th fret, 2nd string but I'm not sure about the two notes  in the bass under it, open 6th and 5th string at 7th fret?

For "Katy Mae" I'm hearing Robert Curtis Smith in A standard, though not sure about where he frets what he plays from :31--:32 or how it functions in his chord progression. Is it an E7 (V chord) played with the 1st string open, 2nd str at fret 5, 3rd str at fret 7, 4th str at fret 6?
Where he frets what he plays from 1:45--1:46 I'll say he slides up to the 3rd fret on the 2nd string, hits the 3rd string at the 5th fret, returns to the 2nd string 3rd fret then bends the 3rd string at the 5th fret.

Loved all 3 tunes by another couple of guys I'm not familiar with.  Thanks!

[Prof Scratchy]

The questions on "Shackles Around My Body" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did David Wylie use to play the song? - A standard capoed up to around C
   * Where did David Wylie fret his IV chord from 1:00--1:06? - 2x0210
   * What song/performance does David Wylie emulate from 1:53--1:56, with his unison bass line and humming?


The questions on "Baby, You're Gonna Change Your Mind" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did David Wylie use to play the song? - E capoed to G
   * Where did David Wylie fret the ascending triplet bass run and bend from :23--24? 5/0 5/4 4/2  4/5b
   * Where is David Wylie fretting the bend he plays in the treble from 1:39--1:34, and what two notes does he hit in the bass under it? - 2/8b  plays 5/7 and 4/6 in bass


The questions on "Katy Mae" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did Robert Curtis Smith use to play the song? - Spanish
   * Where did Robert Curtis Smith fret what he plays from :31--:32, and how does it function in his chord progression? V chord x20230
   * Where did Robert Curtis Smith fret what he plays from 1:45--1:46? -3/0 3/3b 2/1 3/3b 3/0 3/0


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[banjochris]

Pretty sure the song Wylie is imitating is "Crawling Kingsnake" by John Lee Hooker.

[EddieD]

David Wylie - Shackles Around My Body

A position Standard Tuning, Capo 3rd fret

David?s IV Chord from 1:00 to 1:06 sounds something like this:

Code: [Select]

E--0--
B--1--
G--2--
D--4--
A--0--
E-----

Im not sure what song his is emulating at 1:53 to 1:56 but the bass run sounds like this to me:

Code: [Select]

E-------------------------------
B-------------------------------
G-------------------------------
D-------------------------------
A------0--3-5-3------0--3-0-----
E--0-3------------0-3-----------

with some bending on the fretted notes on the 5th string


David Wylie - Baby, You're Gonna Change Your Mind" are:
 
E position Standard Tuning, Capo 3rd Fret
   
The triplet bass run and bend from :23--24 sounds like this to me:

Code: [Select]

E-----------
B-----------
G-----------
D-----2-5b--
A--3-4------
E-----------

The bend from 1:39--1:34 sounds like the 3rd fret on the first string. I was having trouble hearing two bass notes but I think it goes something like open 6th string then 4th string 2nd fret for the bass. I can only really hear the note on the 4th string 2nd fret so I'm guess at the open 6th string to start it off.

As for Robert Curtis Smith's "Katy Mae" I don't have time to go over it right now but I'll venture a guess that it is in A Spanish Tuning.

[Johnm]

Hi all,
Any other takers on the David Wylie and Robert Curtis Smith puzzlers?  Come one, come all!
All best,
Johnm

[Johnm]

Hi all,
It looks as though everyone who intended to respond to the David Wylie and Robert Curtis Smith puzzlers has done so, so I'll post the answers.

For David Wylie's "Shackles Around My Body":
   * His playing position was A position in standard tuning, as everyone who responded had it--well done!
   * David Wylie's IV chord from 1:00--1:06 had him walking into a D9 at the base of the neck from the open sixth string, ending up with 2-0-0-2-1-0, going from the sixth string to the first.  This is essentially what Old Man Ned and Prof Scratchy had.
   * For the passage from 1:53--1:56 where David Wylie played a bass line in unison with his humming, what I had in mind that I thought he was emulating was John Lee Hooker's "Hobo Blues", though what David Wylie played is by no means a note for note steal of what John Lee played.  Here is "Hobo Blues", and listen from :30--:38.  The fact that David Wylie could so easily convert an idea originally played in Spanish tuning and convert it to A position in standard tuning shows how closely related the sounds of those tunings/positions are.



For David Wylie's "Baby, You're Gonna Change Your Mind":
   * His playing position was E position in standard tuning as all who responded had it--well done!
   * The ascending triplet followed by a bend that David Wylie played from :23--:24 was exactly as Old Man Ned and EddieD had it, with the triplet starting at the third fret of the fifth string continuing to the fourth fret of the fifth string and the second fret of the fourth string, followed by a bend of the fourth string at the fifth fret--well done!
   * I posted the time incorrectly for the last question in this puzzler--it should have read from 1:39--1:44.  All the responders knew where I meant, despite my mistake.  The bend David Wylie did in that passage was at the third fret of the first string, and underneath it, he first hit the open fifth string and then hits on the fourth string second fret.

I sure wish David Wylie had been recorded more.  He evidently had only one day in the recording studio, in 1950, when he was only 22 years old.  Two of the four titles he recorded there were issued and the other two remained unissued until Biograph Records put them out in the late '60s.  I like the freedom of David Wylie's approach on these early recordings, his willingness to step outside of the form when he had something special he wanted to say instrumentally.  He's clearly an East Coast player, but the influence of musicians from outside that area, like John Lee Hooker, really enriches what he had to say.

For Robert Curtis Smith's "Katy Mae":
   * His playing position/tuning was Spanish tuning, as Prof Scratchy and Eddie D had it.
   * From :31--:32, Robert Curtis Smith was playing a V chord, as Old Man Ned and Prof Scratchy described it, and his fingering of it was really ingenious, and one that I'm surprised had not been used more by players working in Spanish tuning.  He simply took the common fingering of the IV chord at the base of the neck in Spanish, 0-2-0-1, going from the fifth to the second string (with the two outer strings open), and moved it up two frets, so that he ended up with 0-4-0-3, going from the fifth to the second string.  It sounds really good, too--by leaving the third string open, he gets a nice interior drone happening.
   * From 1:45--1:46, Robert Curtis Smith played the following fill:  While already fretting the first fret of the second string, Robert Curtis Smith pulled off from the second fret of the second string to the first fret of the second string, continuing down to the third fret of the third string, going back to the first fret of the second string and finally resolving to the bent third fret of the third string.  He does the lick really quickly, and it has a wonderful slippery sound, especially the pull-off with which he begins the lick.  Try it out--it's a beauty!

Robert Curtis Smith is another musician who I wish had been recorded more.  i believe Michael Roach told me that Paul Oliver told him that he had an entire album's worth of music of Robert Curtis Smith in his archive that has never been released.  Who knows if it ever will be?

Thanks to Old Man Ned, Prof Scratchy and EddieD for participating in the puzzlers, and I hope folks enjoyed the songs.  I'll look for some more puzzlers.

All best,
Johnm 

[Johnm]

Hi all,
It seems like it's about time for another set of puzzlers.  The first is from Sam Townsend, "Lily Kimball Blues".  I don't think anything is known about Sam Townsend in the biographical sense, but he sounds like he may have been an oldster when he recorded.  Here is "Lily Kimball Blues":



INTRO

Tell me, Lily Kimball, what did you do to me?
Aw, tell me, Lily Kimball, what did you do to me?
These Lily Kimball Blues is nearly killing me

It's hard, it's hard, but I suppose it's fair
It's hard, it's hard, but I suppose it's fair
These Lily Kimball Blues won't let me rest nowhere

I love you, Lily Kimball, don't want no other one
I love you, Lily Kimball, don't want no other one
It ain't too late now, to make up for all I done

It's hard to love you, Lily, you love somebody else
It's hard to love you, Lily, you love somebody else
I believe it's gonna make me, grieve myself to death

I believe I'm goin' crazy, my mind I'm 'bout to lose
I believe I'm goin' crazy, my mind I'm 'bout to lose
If I don't get over these Lily Kimball Blues

When I'm blue, it's good to have you 'round
Aa-when I'm blue, it's good to have you 'round
'Cause when you start loving, it bring my kindness down

SOLO

I'm going to the river, tie my hands behind
I'm going to the river, tie my hands behind
And let that Tennessee water, satisfy my mind

Can't you see, Lily, I want you to understand
Can't you see, Lily, I want you to understand
Take me back, Lily, I'll be a different man

The questions on "Lily Kimball Blues" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did Sam Townsend use to play the song?
   * What does Sam Townsend play as :03 moves into :04 that helps identify his playing position/tuning?

The second puzzler is Curley Weaver's recording of "Sweet Petunia".  Here it is:



I got a gal, lives down by the jail, sign on the door, "Sweet petuni' for sale"
REFRAIN: Lord, I'm wild about my tuni', only thing I crave
Lord, I'm wild about my tuni', only thing I crave
Ah, sweet petuni', gonna carry me to my grave

Got up this mornin', 'bout half past four, bed fell down, I had suspenders on the floor
REFRAIN: Lord, I'm wild about my tuni', only thing I crave
Ah, I'm wild about my tuni', only thing I crave
Ah, sweet petuni', gonna carry me to my grave

I got a gal, she's long and tall, every time she do the shimmy, I holler, "Hot dog!"
REFRAIN: Lord, I'm wild about my tuni', only thing I crave
Well, I'm wild about my tuni', only thing I crave
Ah, sweet petuni', gonna carry me to my grave

I could holler like a mountain jack, go up on the mountain and bring my tuni' back
REFRAIN: Well, I'm wild about my tuni', only thing I crave
Well, I'm wild about my tuni', only thing I crave
Ah, sweet petuni', gonna carry me to my grave

I've got a gal, that lives behind my jail, got a sign on my door, "Sweet petuni' for sale"
REFRAIN: Lord, I'm wild about my tuni', only thing I crave
Lord, I'm wild about my tuni', only thing I crave
Ah, sweet petuni', gonna carry me to my grave

Way back yonder in one-o-one, beaver had petunis but you couldn't get none
REFRAIN: Lord, I'm wild about my tuni', only thing I crave
Lord, I'm wild about my tuni', only thing I crave
Ah, sweet petuni', gonna carry me to my grave

The questions on "Sweet Petunia" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did Curley Weaver use to play the song?
   * What two notes did Curley Weaver play under his IV chord in his first verse accompaniment, at :09 and :11?
   * Where did Curley Weave fret what he played in the treble from :11--:13?
   * Where did Curley Weaver fret his treble signature lick that he played from :55--:58 and elsewhere during the course of the song?

The third puzzler is Carolina Slim's "Black Cat Trail".  Here is his performance of the song:



INTRO SOLO

I laid down last night, I couldn't even take my rest
I laid down last night, I couldn't even take my rest
You know, my mind started to rambling, man, like a wild geese out in the West

SOLO

My baby's gone and left me, she won't even write back to me
She's gone away and left me, she won't even write back to me
She keeps me so disgusted, bothered as a man can be

I don't know why, but I sure don't get no mail
I don't know why, sure don't get no mail
It must be one of them old walkin' black cats, been walking, walkin' all over my trail

The questions on "Black Cat Trail" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did Carolina Slim use to play the song?
   * Where did Carolina Slim fret the three ascending chordal slides that open the song and that are answered by a treble run?
   * Where did Carolina Slim fret the phrase from :31--:35, starting with the chordal shot in the treble, followed by the descending run, re-ascending and ending on a held chord while he runs his right hand?

As always, please use only your ears and your guitars to arrive at your answers--no transcription software, and please don't post any answers before 8:00 AM your time on Monday, April 24.  Thanks to those who participate and I hope folks enjoy the songs.
All best,
Johnm

[banjochris]

Here's what I hear:

?Lily Kimball?
G standard
from :03 to :04 he plays a slightly bent 3rd fret of the third string, then the open second string. That pretty much limits it to G or Spanish/DGDGBE, and then his G-A-B-C walk-up in the bass pretty much clinches it as standard.


?Sweet Petunia?
G standard, capoed up to A
under the IV chord he alternates between 2-1-0 and 0-1-0 on the top three strings.
from :11 to :13 he takes the 2-1-0 he?s playing on the top three strings and moves it up a fret to 3-2-0
treble lick is
3rd fret 1st string
open 1st string
3rd fret 2nd string
3rd fret (bent) 3rd string
open 2nd string
3rd fret 2nd string
open 1st string
3rd fret 1st string
2nd fret 1st string
1st fret 1st string


?Black Cat Trail?
drop D tuned up or capoed up a fret or so
ascending chords is Lightnin?s lick of running a 1st position C chord up 4 frets to E, but this time in drop D, so only running the C chord up to D and ending by playing the chord with the pinky playing the high A on the 5th fret of the 1st string.

the run:
6-5 on the top two strings
5th fret 2nd string
3rd fret 2nd string
1st fret 2nd string
2nd fret 3rd string
open 3rd string
3rd fret 4th string (bent a bit)
open 4th string
slide from 3rd fret of 5th string up to 5th fret for unison D note
back to the C-shaped D chord with pinky playing the 5th fret of the 1st string


sorry for these lengthy run descriptions -- is there somewhere on the site that explains how to enter some tab easily? I've seen people do it but don't know how.
Chris

PS I wonder if Carolina Slim's stealing so many licks from him turned Lightnin' off of playing in D -- he sure didn't do it much in later years, which is a shame. And Slim is an excellent player, too.

[Prof Scratchy]

Yes, I agree with Chris's answers, although I got the Carolina Slim one wrong, hearing it in E.


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[banjochris]

Yes, I agree with Chris's answers, although I got the Carolina Slim one wrong, hearing it in E.


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I thought it was in E at first as well but the giveaway is the runs at the end of verses. You never hear Lightnin's E lick at 3-4-0 on the top 3 strings, plus the runs almost always end with that slide on the fifth string.
Chris

[Prof Scratchy]

True detective work! Plus the two Es: ears and experience.


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[Forgetful Jones]

I'm listening at work with no guitar to help me out but here's a stab of at least the key/tunings:

Sam Townsend "Lily Limball"
Key of G, standard tuning- At :03 you can hear the bent 3rd fret 3rd string immediately followed by an open 2nd string.

Curley Weaver "Sweet Petunia"
I'm having a hard time hearing this one at work (wish I had some headphones).
I'm pretty sure this one is in G too, but capo'd up a bit. The lick he plays after many of his vocal lines sounds like it may have a similar 3rd fret 3rd string bend followed by open 2nd string in there (like in "Lily" above.)

Carolina Slim "Black Cat Trail"
Sounds like key of E standard tuning tuned a step or so lower. His playing is very similar to Lighnin' Hopkins, sliding C shape with pinky on 1st string up to E (bass note at 7th fret of 5th string)

[Old Man Ned]

In complete agreement with Banjo Chris for Sam Townsend's "Lily Kimball Blues" and the rationale for going for G standard.  This was the tune I was most confident on.

Curley Weavers "Sweet Petunia" I wondered into a maze, then the fog came down, it got dark and I got scared  ie got lost on this one.  I was hearing a F note on the 6th string at 19secs and couldn't take it from there.

Carolina Slim's Black Cat Trail I was also hearing in E, likely swayed by the Lightin' Hopkins similarities, but Banjo Chris' reply of Dropped D with the C chord slid up to D works for me. I'm impressed, by Banjo Chris and Carolina Slim...but for different reasons :-)