Topic: Miller's Breakdown

[Pan]

Thanks again for the detailed analysis, John. Much appreciated, as always.
Congratulations for Roi for getting it right, and apologies, if I mislead others with my suggestion for A minor position!

Cheers

Pan

[Prof Scratchy]

I was lucky enough to see RPW several times live. Even when I could actually see what he was doing, I didn't have a clue about how he was making those sounds. A magical and unique player!

Sent from my HUAWEI MT1-U06 using Tapatalk

[wild irish rose]

I agree completely Prof Scratchy on RPW's seemingly magical abilities on the guitar. While we're on the topic and before the next puzzle gets posted, I have a question about a particular RPW performance I found on YouTube:

If you jump to around the 1:36 mark when the camera pans down to his hands, it looks like what he's playing doesn't even match the sounds of his guitar. However, before that when he's singing his lips match perfectly to the vocals so I don't think there's any edit trickery or desyncing going on but perhaps I'm mistaken.

Do his hands match the sounds for everyone else and I'm just crazy? Kind of a weird question I'll admit but it's always bugged me and I've never taken the time to learn the song to see how it matches up.

[Johnm]

You aren't crazy, wild Irish rose--the sound and the film do not match up, especially at the tail end of that very brief passage showing his left hand.  The bend and position up the neck are correct, though not in synch with the sound track.  It does not match.
All best,
Johnm

[wild irish rose]

Thanks for the confirmation of my sanity, John! Seems like it might just be a desync either from YouTube or the source the video's from then I would wager. Just threw me off because the audio matched the vocals up until the guitar interlude when it starts to go off.

I love this thread even though I'm a hopeless lurker. Still learn loads from other people's guesses and your analyses, so thanks for the thread!

[banjochris]

At the very end of that clip though is a good shot of him playing a G chord in a D-minor-based tune. My guess is that the film lost sync for a bit or it was screwed up in the editing. Don't think it's a YouTube problem.
Chris

[Johnm]

Hi all,
I have a new puzzler for you.  The performance is "Guitar Blues", as played by Johnny St. Cyr, who was originally a New Orleans musician.  He played a lot with Jelly Roll Morton and evidently played at Disneyland late in his life.  He was a wonderful player and had a beautiful ear for harmony and way of getting around on his instrument.  Here is his performance:



The questions on "Guitar Blues" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did Johnny St. Cyr use to play the tune?
   * What three chords does Johnny St. Cyr play in the passage from :11--:14?  Name them and indicate where they are fretted.
   * Where does Johnny St. Cyr modulate to at :45?
   * What three chords does Johnny St. Cyr play in the passage from :55--:59?  Name the chords and indicate where they are fretted.

Please use only your ears, instrument and experience to answer the questions, no transcription software.  I will not be able to post answers until Sunday evening, and this is a kind of detailed puzzle, so please wait until Friday, November 7, to post your responses.  I encourage you to use your guitar to figure out some of these voicings.  Thanks for your participation.

All best,
Johnm

[banjochris]

While you're working on Johnny St. Cyr, If you've never seen this it's worth a look.

[Johnm]

Thanks for the link, Chris.  That is great footage.  I get a kick out of Johnny St. Cyr's right hand when he's playing time--talk about conservation of energy!  Wonderful to see performance footage of Kid Ory too, and Louis of course.  That's a treat.
All best,
Johnm

[David Kaatz]

Great stuff! Wonderful how well the band plays at such a slow tempo. That's one of the things that makes them pros.

Dave

[mr mando]

Q: What playing position/tuning did Johnny St. Cyr use to play the tune?
A: A Position Standard Tuning, identified specially through Blind Boy Fuller licks, the characteristsic IV chord (2-0-0-2-1-(0)).

Q: What three chords does Johnny St. Cyr play in the passage from :11--:14?  Name them and indicate where they are fretted.
A: A Major (x-0-x-2-2-x), C#7/G# (4-x-3-4-2-x) and F#9 (2-x-4-3-2-4)

Q: Where does Johnny St. Cyr modulate to at :45?
A: From A up a fourth to D

Q: What three chords does Johnny St. Cyr play in the passage from :55--:59?  Name the chords and indicate where they are fretted.
A: For the first chord I only really hear the lowest and the highest note (C and e). I would probably decide for a D9/C fingering like x-3-4-5-5-x or x-3-2-2-5-x if I had to play the tune.
For the second chord, I hear a C9 x-x-2-3-3-3 and for the third a B9#5 to B9 move (x-x-1-2-2-3, then x-x-1-2-2-2), but maybe he's just playing another C9 before the B9.

BTW, may I ask if I'm the only one who would identify the A section turnaround passing chord (between A and E7) as Bbdim (x-1-2-0-2-x)?
Also, in the bar before the turnaround, would the chords for beats 2, 3,and 4 be fingered as x-4-x-2-5-x, x-3-x-2-4-x and x-2-x-1-3-x ?

[Old Man Ned]

Wonderful piece by Johnny St Cyr.  I love his version of Jelly Roll Blues (I think, every things packed up at the minute as I'm moving home) on the Lomax recordings of Jelly Roll Morton on the CD box set.  Anyhow's....A in standard, modulates to D.  The first of the 3 chords  from :11--:14 I get as A at 2nd fret, but haven't got the other 2 chords (I'm rubbish at getting chords unless it's something really basic), though having seen Dr Mando's post he sounds spot on.  That's as far as I got......

[Pan]

Hi all

What a great tune again, thanks for posting it, John!

I agree with Mr. Mando and Old Man Ned on standard tuning, keys of A and D.

I think Mr. Mando nailed the first chord passage.

On the second passage in the key of D, I hear it slightly differently.  I could be wrong, though. After the IV chord I seem to hear quick D chord X-X-0-2-3-2, followed by the open 5th string, which gives you the time to quickly change position higher up on the neck.
Like Mr. Mando, I first could only hear the bass note C and the high E on the next chord. However, on a later chorus, on the same spot, I think I'm hearing a high F# (or Gb) above the E as well. This is why I'm thinking that the chord in question is a C7(b5) (bVIII(b5) or an F#7(b5) (III7(b5). These chords are tritone substitutions, and can be interpreted either way. I would finger them as 8-X-8-9-7-X, starting with the 2nd finger on the low 6th string.
I then hear a B7(#5) 7-X-7-8-8-X, followed by a B7 7-X-7-8-7-X, before resolving to E.

Mr. Mando, I think you nailed the turnaround chords on the A section.

Looking forward to hear what is the correct answer.

Cheers

Pan

[David Kaatz]

I believe St. Cyr was playing this in A position, standard tuning. The lowest note I hear played is the open E sixth string.
The three chords from :11 - :14 are A, G7, F#9 fretted (and attempting to indicate some timing of notes):

E|-0    x   444
B|-2    0   2
G|-2    0   3
D|-2    3   2
A|-x0   2   4
E|-x  0 3   2

At :45 he modulates to the key of D.

The three chords from :55 - :59 are D, C7, B7#5 fretted (again with note timing:

|-2   x  x  x| 3
|-3   1  1  1| 0
|-2   3  3  3| 2
|-0   2  2  2| 1
|-x  3  3  3 | 2
|-x  x  x  x | x

Dave

[Prof Scratchy]

Yes definitely A standard tuning with a modulation to D. I had the first selection of three chords as davek has them. I didn't manage to suss the chords from :55 to :59 if I'm honest. I remain, as ever,
Cloth Ears Jones