Topic: Candy Man

[Bluesymel]

Here is my take on Candy Man by John Hurt. I do not know how to record. I used a sound hole pickup in my Martin D35 and recorded directly into the Mic input of my laptop using Cdex. I do not have this down real well yet, but would appreciate comments on it so far. I have been playing for about 2 years and trying to learn from Stefan Grossman materials.

[Slack]

Hi Mel - nice job  ...at two years - excellent.  You are ahead of me at that point in time.  Your timing sounds good and you've got lots of the subtleties of Candy Man.Your recording setup makes it sound like you are playing an electric guitar - sounds kinda odd.   Are you singing?

[Bluesymel]

Hi Mel - nice job? ...at two years - excellent.? You are ahead of me at that point in time.? Your timing sounds good and you've got lots of the subtleties of Candy Man.Your recording setup makes it sound like you are playing an electric guitar - sounds kinda odd.? ?Are you singing?

Thanks, no I don't know how to sing and play CB at the same time. Also I don't know how to get my voice into the computer along with the guitar.

[Norfolk Slim]

Can't download the file here at work- but will give it a listen when I get in.

Singing and playing fingerstyle at the same time comes much easier to some than others.  I find it incredibly difficult, but it does become easier the more you try it.  For me at least, the trick was to start with songs that were easy to sing- and there are a few John Hurt songs that are ideal.  Richland Woman was a song which I found that I could almost sing over straight away when I learned the guitar part- there's something about the arrangement and melody that seems easier than most.  Give it a go!

For recording, I am no expert, but I got passable results just plugging a mike into the computer and playing and singing directly into it- ie no pickup.

[Richard]

Good, and good timing. I think that us folks who have only been playing a couple of years ought to stick together !

I might even get tempted to post something myself  or should I stick to the drums

[blueshome]

Richard,

Get a grip man!  You use the sticks on the drums!

Yes you should post on last hearing - lay down rhythmn track with brushes and play over that.

Phil

[waxwing]

Sounds great, Bluesymel. I agree that your timing is good and you're beginning to get that bounce that is so indicative of MJH's playing.
I, too, would highly reccommend that you start singing with your playing. If you put nearly as much practice into singing as you obviously have into playing (Sounds great for 2 years) you'll be doing fine in no time. And I think Candyman would be a perfect place to start as John uses a kind of spoken singing style which is not hard to emulate. Start just by singing along with the CD 'til you feel like you have at least the first verse and chorus memorized. Then work line by line to put together small parts, just like you learned the guitar part. If you can put together the treble pick with the alternating bass, you can put the vocal with the guitar. If you need to, write the words onto the tab, being careful to line up words that fall on the beat. Work just as slowly and methodically as you did on the guitar part, just on the first verse. And don't worry too much to start about subtle syncopation. Just get on the beat, you can lag a bit (or anticipate) later when you feel more comfortable. Once you have the first verse happening I think you will find it much easier to add the later verses.

I like to tell the story of the first time Muddy Waters heard himself played back by Lomax at Stoval Plantation. His words were: "That boy can sing!" These guys thought of themselves as singers who also played their own accompaniment.But it takes just as much practice, and listening, to learn to play your vocal instrument as it does the guitar, so start now.

And thanks for taking to heart whatt I said in another recent thread. The Back Porch is for singers and players of all levels to get constructive criticism of their work. Keep it up.

All for now.
John C.

[lebordo]

I, too, would highly reccommend that you start singing with your playing.

I'm inclined to agree with John C about singing while you play -- or at least hum or sing scat or "think" the words while you're playing.? Whenever I learn the guitar part first, I always struggle to claim my voice as the "lead instrument" because the guitar already thinks it is the lead.? To me, in almost all vocal blues, the guitar sets the tempo and pitch, but is primarily an accompaniment to the vocal.? Ditto for banjos, mandolins, violins, pianos, etc.? As a matter of principle, the accompaniment should be virtually interchangeable, as Papa Charlie Jackson showed when recording Texas Blues for Paramount in December 1925 -- on the first take, he accompanied himself with banjo, and on the second take, with guitar.? At various times, Paramount released both versions on Pm 12335.

Putting the vocal at the top of the learning heap seems very logical to me, given the fact that real "country" blues is almost totally an aural tradition, where singers often first hear someone else sing/play a song, then sing along or hum along themselves, until the song sticks in their mind and they find themselves singing all or parts of the song on their own.? Then they would work out suitable accompaniments.? I think that's why you often hear different artists using the same words and phrases in songs, even though they have very individualized accompaniments.? Note, however, than artists might also work on developing instrumental skills so they could sit in on gigs and accompany the more established artists.? The difference, I believe, is that the instrumentalist probably worked more on technique -- chord progressions, runs, bridges, etc., than learning the accompaniment to one sone verbatim.? Perhaps today's "instant gratification" culture makes that process somehow less rewarding, and we need something concrete like a complete song to prove our merit (at least I can see that problem in some of my past efforts).

Another point I think we often forget is our favorite old (and new) blues artists usually didn't sing OR play the same song exactly the same way two times in a row.? Listen to alternate takes of a single song from the same recording session.? Or listen to the same song, like Candy Man, from the original pre-war recording and post-rediscovery studio and concert recordings.? Similar?? Sure.? Identical?? Hardly. So, in my opinion, we can't get too hung up on memorizing the song so we always sing it the same, or locking in the guitar or piano accompaniment so that it is always the same.? Much more important to relax and have fun.? Add, drop or juxtapose verses, steal verses from other songs (how many songs use "T for Texas, T for Tennessee"?), change the guitar break, change the tempo, drop a note that doesn't sound right to you, add a note if it makes sense to you.? I suspect the less rigid you make it, the easier singing and playing at the same time will become.? If all else fails, do what many blues artists did -- just vamp the guitar while singing and save the intricate guitar work for instrumental interludes.

These guys thought of themselves as singers who also played their own accompaniment.But it takes just as much practice, and listening, to learn to play your vocal instrument as it does the guitar, so start now.

It is certainly true that many blues artists thought of themselves as singers first.? But many others worked primarily as accompanists and rarely sang -- at least on records, and probably in clubs/juke joints and at parties.? The Pruitt Twins, Milas and Miles, immediately come to mind.? Other artists such as Lonnie Johnson, seem equally comfortable singing or being an accompanist, as well as equally comfortable doing blues, hokum, and jazz.? Lonnie recorded many more records as a jazz accompanist than as a blues vocalist.

So I guess I'll modify my position a little == if you want to be a blues singer, develop your vocals before, or in convert with the instrumentals.? On the other hand, if you want to be a blues guitarist, or blues pianist or whatever, then you really don't ever have to sing with your instrumental work.