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Country Blues => Weenie Campbell Main Forum => Topic started by: uncle bud on March 10, 2004, 06:45:07 PM

Title: Lesser known players?
Post by: uncle bud on March 10, 2004, 06:45:07 PM
Been listening to some lesser known players lately, some good, some less so. Ramblin' Thomas seems particularly wonderful to me and while not exactly unknown isn't a name you see very often. I have the Catfish CD which I believe is his complete output. The Blind Lemon qualities of some of his non-slide tunes are really fascinating. Kind of relates to the comments in another thread about playing in the style of a certain bluesman but not necessarily playing licks he laid down on a 78. I don't know that I've heard anyone sound like Lemon quite the way Thomas does but still has his own sound.

Another player I've listened to lately is Willie Trice, his recordings from the 70s on the Trix CD Blue and Rag'd. Definitely a Blind Boy Fuller sound here, although the original LP notes from Bruce Bastin go to pains to point out this is merely a regional similarity, not direct copping. I'm less sure. Quite a good record though.

Other oddballs include John Byrd and Walter Taylor on a Story of Blues CD. Kentucky players who aren't grabbing me just yet but perhaps require more listening.

Also listening to Smoky Babe's Hottest Brand Goin' who's been mentioned a fair amount on the board though is hardly a household name even in blues fan circles. A great record.

Any lesser knowns that you're enjoying these days?

Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: Eldergreene on March 11, 2004, 02:50:58 AM
Ditto on the Ramblin' Thomas, Uncle B; - wish to god Willie Walker had recorded more, what we must have missed with that guy! Wouldn't mind a bit more Luke Jordan, too, seemed a real interesting player ..
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: GhostRider on March 11, 2004, 09:37:48 AM
Hi UB:

Your dot disappeared again. (Maine is closer than NH).

Yeah, there's three lesser known CB artists I've been listening to lately. The first is Funny Papa Smith from Okla. who recorded +/- 20 songs in 1930-31 (not the best time to release tunes if you wanted recognition). A great inventive player with a terrific flair for improvisation. A great deep, "western" voice. Last night I was listening to his "Fools Blues" which has gospol-like words set against a blues melody.

Another one is Buddy Boy Hawkins, who recorded in the late 20's mostly Open G tuning songs. This picked-strummed raggy tunes are a bit frenitic for my taste, with a million chords. His blues numbers have a great distinctive sound and structure, quite unique. The copies of his 78's I have (mosly on Yahoo vinyl) are very uneven in quality.

I'm not a fan in general of slide guitar but two slide artists I've listened to lately I really like are King Soloman Hill and Oscar Woods. KSH's "Gone Dead Train" has strong elements of Blind Lemon Jefferson in it, at least to my ears. A great player. I gather that recently the last two of his recorded works have been found and re-released. I'd love to hear them (one's a tribute to Blind Lemon!).

I don't know much about Oscar Woods, except this great melodic slide lines.

Re: Willy Trice. I thought he was an associate of BBFuller, and recorded in the 30's during one of BBFuller's sessions
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: uncle bud on March 11, 2004, 06:51:45 PM
Hi Alex,

King Solomon Hill is definitely a fascinating player. If you're not familiar with Gayle Dean Wardlow's book "Chasin' That Devil Music", you might want to check it out. There are two essays in there about KSH, revolving around a controversy I wasn't familiar with in which Wardlow identifies KSH as Joe Holmes, from Sibley, Louisiana. Wardlow was taken to task early on for his claim by David Evans (who was at PT last year, and a fine fellow he was). I don't know the end result of the subsequent feud, but Wardlow certainly comes off as definitive on the issue. Holmes as it turns out hung out with Blind Lemon after Lemon passed through Minden, La. So the Lemon influence is not just out of the blue.

The KSH 78 with "My Buddy Blind Papa Lemon" and "Times Has Done Got Hard" can be seen at John Tefteller's site here (http://tefteller.com/html/78_king_solomon_hill.html). I thought perhaps there were some sound file samples available but I think I'm confusing it with the Blind Joe Reynolds stuff that was discovered a couple years ago.

(You may know all of this already...)

Anyone know if Tefteller has released these yet? Perhaps with the blues calendar?

Re. JT Funny Papa Smith, I would be remiss not to point out John Miller did an online lesson of his Tell It to the Judge here (http://weeniecampbell.com/yabbse/index.php?Itemid=47&?topic=184.0).
Just in case you weren't aware.

You're right about Willie Trice, he was indeed an associate of BBF and recorded, separately with brother Richard Trice (who I believe was called Little Boy Fuller at one point), as you say at one of the sessions Fuller did.

Oscar Woods I know little about aside from loving his "Don't Sell It Don't Give it Away"...

cheers,
uncle bud

If anyone has a membership/affiliation with a library that subscribes to NetLibrary.com, the Wardlow book Chasin' That Devil Music is available as a (fully searchable) e-book at http://netlibrary.com (http://netlibrary.com/Gateway.aspx).
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: frankie on March 11, 2004, 08:12:27 PM
Wouldn't mind a bit more Luke Jordan, too, seemed a real interesting player ..

Was just listening to him the other day & it occurred to me that his Travellin' Coon is played out of F.  A most unfairly maligned key...
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: Slack on March 11, 2004, 09:12:40 PM
Well, I've been listening to Scott Dunbar.
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How's that for oneupmanship.   :P

Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: Eldergreene on March 12, 2004, 02:18:18 AM
I've loved Oscar Woods' "Lone Wolf Blues" since first hearing it on a compilation album back in '67 - his "Fence-Breakin Blues" & "Come On Over To My House Mama" are pretty good too; I believe he was a musical mentor for the Black Ace (BK Turner), another fine & under-recorded artist..
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: uncle bud on March 12, 2004, 06:59:27 AM
Well, I've been listening to Scott Dunbar.
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How's that for oneupmanship.   :P



So how is it? :)  I see that Fat Possum has another George Mitchell recording out, by Jimmy Lee Williams. Unfamiliar with him.

Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: Slack on March 12, 2004, 08:57:19 AM
Quote
So how is it? ? I see that Fat Possum has another George Mitchell recording out, by Jimmy Lee Williams. Unfamiliar with him.

A little rough around the edges, not alot of 'ingredients' in his playing, but very pleasant to listen to.? I like him.? He ends most of his songs with a very infectious laugh - he's definately having a good time.? I'll find some time and do a mp3 sampler of one of his tunes.? Unfamiliar with Jimmy Lee Williams also.

cheers,
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: M.Vidrine on March 13, 2004, 01:09:31 PM
Slack - I totally forgot about Dunbar. Geez, I love this guy & his CD has been neglected in my collection for far too long. Well, I just moved it back into high rotation. Both his playing & vocals are so smooth. He possesses that ability to fluidly move in and out of his falsetto - he's just so effortless.
Great CD - really! I just put some Real Audio sound samples up on the Venerable Site if anyone wants to give it a listen - http://www.venerablemusic.com/catalog/TitleDetails.asp?TitleID=199.

On a recommendation, I just ordered the Jack Owens CD on Testament. Unfortunately, it was backordered by the distributor  :(. Because of the whole Skip James connection I have high expectations for this disc. Anyone else have it??

Malcolm
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: Rivers on March 13, 2004, 02:03:49 PM
I have this. Your post inspired me to dig it out, I'm listening on headphones as I write.

You will enjoy it. Jack and Bud had a really good thing going, wish I could have heard them at Port Townsend when they played that year; was Bud there with Jack? Some of the weenies were there that year.

I like everything about the Testament record. Good stereo mix, Jack's voice is incredible, ranging from blues yelling to a low conversational tones.

The guitar grooves and Jack's lead foot on the porch are compelling. Bud has to be one of the best ever harp accompanists.
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: Slack on March 13, 2004, 02:43:50 PM
Hi Malcolm,

Yes, Dunbars slipping in and our of falsetto is very interesting.  Thanks for posting the samples - you saved me some work! --- Will have to try and remember to check your site for MP3 samples in the future.

cheers,
slack
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: uncle bud on March 14, 2004, 12:46:03 PM
I'll second Rivers' recommendation of the Jack Owens CD. I really like it and he's a cool singer. Sometimes I like him more than Skip!
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: waxwing on March 14, 2004, 03:26:41 PM
Regarding King Solomon Hill., his Times Done Got Hard is on the CD released with Tefteller's (Blues Images') 2004 Calendar, as is Blind Joe Reynold's Cold Woman Blues and the Tommy Johnson "test" recording of I Want Someone To Love Me, all recent discoveries. TDGH is also on Yazoo 2067 "Times Ain't Like They Used To Be" Vol. 7. The flip side, My Buddy Blind Papa Lemon is on Yazoo 2068 "Times Ain't Like They Used To Be" Vol 8. as is the TJ number. I have the calendar, and TDGH is similar in style to Gone Dead Train, which I think is one of the most haunting and powerful blues goin'.
The two BJR sides, Cold Woman Blues and Ninety Nine Blues, are on Vols 5 and 6 of the same series, Yazoo 2063 and 2064, respectively. I couldn't find them on the Yazoo ecommerse page , but then I checked the page in our links section, which gives a much better description of everything. And, I noticed they have a 5 for 4 sale going on. Hmmmm, these four and the Patton CD?
All for now.
John C.
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: Rivers on March 14, 2004, 09:23:42 PM

I'll second Rivers' recommendation of the Jack Owens CD. I really like it and he's a cool singer. Sometimes I like him more than Skip!


With one proviso, Skip had a lot more variation going on than Jack. Listening to a Skip CD I don't get bored; Jack can be merciless sticking to that Bentonia guitar style. Skip sounds to me more worldly, I guess he also had the piano songs and styles that found their way into his guitar repertoire.
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: Johnm on August 23, 2004, 09:14:48 PM
Hi all,
One really interesting player who I think fits in this category is the Indianapolis bluesman Pete Franklin.  I believe he only ever had one album released, on Prestige Bluesville in the '60s.  It is available on CD currently from www.fantasyjazz.com.  He was a very strong and inventive player, did some tremendous E blues, as well as blues in A or D in a style we tend to attribute to Scrapper Blackwell but which may have been more of a shared regional style in Indianapolis.  Like Scrapper, he also played piano.  The last tune on his CD, as I remember, was in the seldom-used "high G string" tuning used by Miles Pruett behind Lottie Beamon on the original recording of "Rolling Log Blues".
Nick Perls recorded Pete Franklin in around 1972, on a trip to Indianapolis with Steven Calt, Michael Stewart and possibly Woody Mann that resulted in the Shirley Griffith and Yank Rachel Blue Goose albums.  I remember Nick playing me a couple of Pete's cuts.  They never made it onto a record, perhaps because he did not end up recording enough material for a solo album.  They were great cuts, though.  At that point, I think Pete was pretty far gone in drink, but I know Nick and Steven really liked him and thought he was great.  He was a really intelligent guy with interesting observations about the blues.  If any of you own or have access to the Country Blues Songbook by Stefan Grossman that Steven Calt did the intro for, there are some priceless quotes by Pete in that intro.  I'm afraid he may have been a guy who was good at what he did at the wrong time.
All best,
Johnm
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: uncle bud on August 24, 2004, 09:05:55 AM
The last tune on his CD, as I remember, was in the seldom-used "high G string" tuning used by Miles Pruett behind Lottie Beamon on the original recording of "Rolling Log Blues".

Hi John,

What is the high G string tuning on Rolling Log? Speaking of Lesser Knowns, Lottie Beamon/Kimbrough is one of my favorite lesser knowns. Some great material of which Rolling Log is probably the best. I think she is a tremendous singer. Also, can you remind me of the tuning you use for your own great version of Rolling Log?

cheers,
Andrew
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: Johnm on August 24, 2004, 12:40:42 PM
Hi Andrew,
The tuning that Miles Pruett used for "Rolling Log" involves substituting a very light string for the normal G string and then tuning it an octave high, so that it matches the pitch of the first string at the third fret.  The tune is otherwise played in standard tuning, E position, though I reckon he is capoed up a few frets.  One of the amazing things about this tuning is you can finger the most standard sort of E turn-arounds, like the walk-down from the 4th fret of the first and third strings, and it sounds completely different; you really sound like an ace.  The tuning I use for "Rolling Log" is DGDFAD. 
All best,
Johnm
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: uncle bud on August 25, 2004, 07:11:17 PM
Thanks John. Couldn't remember what you told me at PT. Must have been the liquor.  :-[  THis is one of my favorite tunes.

Was listening to Pete Franklin today - what little I have of him on a couple of the Fantasy and Bluesville compilations - and can definitely hear what you say about the similarities to Scrapper Blackwell. Even in the touch (those snappy treble strings) there are similarities, but also some of the chordal movements and harmonies.
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: outfidel on August 26, 2004, 02:21:43 PM
I'd like to hear more from Bill Williams, Blind Blake's sidekick who finally recorded a bit in the early 1970s. Check out the sound clips of Williams on Stefan Wirz's excellent page (http://www.wirz.de/music/willfrm.htm)
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: Cambio on August 27, 2004, 08:58:59 AM
Speaking of Miles Pruitt, I have to say that he is one of my favorite guitar players and I had a very hard time trying to decipher what he was doing before I had read some Yazoo liner notes.  In addition to playing with Lottie Kimbrough, he also played with Ma Rainey.  On 'Farewell Blues' the record lists "the Pruitt twins" on banjo and guitar, but I have always been convinced that it was just Miles on a twelve string.  Now my ears have deceived me before, but can anyone clarify this.
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: Johnm on August 28, 2004, 10:56:23 AM
Hi Todd,
I'm sure the Pruett Twins were for real, as Phil Thorne was just talking to me about them at the EBA Blues Week in England a couple of weeks ago.  I will send him a message and ask him to post more info, since I know next to nothing about them.
All best,
Johnm 
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: blueshome on August 30, 2004, 07:35:00 AM
 :-\  The Pruitt Twins - they were Miles and Milas - some room for confusion in that house I bet!
Both are listed as playing guitar and banjo respectively.
As well as Lottie Beaman and Ma Rainey they played behind Ida Cox and Winston Holmes. According to B&G Records, they played together at one session in March 1924 with consequetive masters from Lottie, Ida and Ma. The Winston Holmes entry lists Miles as "poss. gtr." at a 1929 session. That's all I know.

Phil
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: waxwing on August 30, 2004, 08:54:32 AM
I just saw Craig Ventresco play his monthly Saturday aft. gig at the Ace Cafe a few blocks from my apt. and he mentioned the Pruitt twins playing behind a Pearl something(sorry, can't remember the last name but if it was Bailley I think I would have remembered<G>), so I told him about this site and that the Pruitt twins were currently under discussion. He was pretty impressed, but has no computer. He may get to us via his Girl friend Meredith's computer. She has a beautiful voice for old dance hall numbers and seconds him very well on guitar. Every time I see him play I am more impressed. As another guitarist I know said on Saturday, " the piano playingest guitarist around. He's also a 78 collector so I thought he and Richard might have a thing or two to go on about. Hope he stops in. He may actually come by my place to play and check out guitars (lives in the neighb) so I'll try to get him on the computer. Anyway, there's another Pruitt twin recording to look up.
All for now.
John C.
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: uncle bud on August 30, 2004, 09:04:01 AM
Pearl Dickson perhaps...
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: frankie on August 30, 2004, 09:08:58 AM
If so, maybe he's got the Pruitt twins mixed up with the Harney bros. - Pet and Can.  Which one of those two is Richard (Hacksaw)?
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: waxwing on August 30, 2004, 09:25:40 AM
I know I've read about Pet and Can recently and it talked about which was Hacksaw. Maybe in Calt's Patton Bio? What else have I read lately? Wald's Escaping the Delta and Bastin's Red River Blues. Doubt it's Bastin. There was also a link on some board to actual footage of Hacksaw in the '70s, I think. That might have had it. I'll look later today. Craig was pretty clear. He was talking about having seen and heard the 78 from the collection of a woman in the audience. Which was about maybe 20 people, BTW. A quarter of which were guitarists I knew. Sheesh!
All for now.
John C.
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: uncle bud on August 30, 2004, 09:41:51 AM
There was also a link on some board to actual footage of Hacksaw in the '70s, I think.

From Adelphi, available here (http://www.adelphirecords.com/video/Hacksaw.html.).
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: frankie on August 30, 2004, 10:00:06 AM
Beat me to it, UB - that clip has been on the Adelphi site for a couple years, now...

Never noticed it before, but there's a clip available of Rev. Robert Wilkins (http://www.adelphirecords.com/video/Wilkins.html).  Don't have time to check it out now, but definitely will, later.  I'm not sure he qualifies as "lesser known" for this thread, but I wish he'd recorded more...
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: Johnm on October 02, 2004, 10:42:54 AM
Hi all,
One musician who definitely falls into this category is the early Texas player, Gene Campbell.  He played a lot in C, but in a way unlike anyone else I have heard, and was obviously strongly influenced by Lonnie Johnson.  He seems to have been a guy who could have functioned in Jazz ensemble contexts of his era, with an "uptown" chordal sound, use of 6th chords, etc.  He is one Country Blues player whose songs I have never heard performed by a present-day player.  He's also kind of unusual in that, based purely on sound, there is at least an even chance, or perhaps better than even, that he played with a flat-pick in the right hand and didn't play fingerstyle at all.  Kind of a mystery guy.
All best,
Johnm
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: GhostRider on October 02, 2004, 12:23:28 PM
Hi John:

Interesting that you should bring Gene Campbell up. I remember reading a short biography of FP Smith which mentioned that FP recorded more pre-war side than any other Texas Bluesman other than the "even more obscure Gene Campbell". So this fellow was the most recorded Texas bluesman of his day (obvious exception of BL Jefferson). And I've never heard even one of his tunes.

Would you say he is worth listening to?

Alex
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: Johnm on October 02, 2004, 12:39:10 PM
Hi Alex,
Yes, I would definitely say Gene Campbell is worth listening to, if only for his different take on playing in C, standard tuning.  There's something about him that reminds me a little bit of Sylvester Weaver (not that they sound like each other).  It's just that they both sound like pretty sophisticated players and people--not raw or particularly country, in either their playing or singing.  And each of them sounds really evolved in his style, but not in ways that ended up being picked up on and developed by other players--kind of "dead end" players, though that is an historical hindsight assessment based only on who made it on to records after them.  They may have spawned imitators who never made it on to records.  But they were both really good players who sound like pro musicians through and through.
All best,
Johnm
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: frankie on October 02, 2004, 02:20:10 PM
Gene Campbell

Would you say he is worth listening to?

I agree with John - some very nice stuff.? For some reason, he makes me think of Jess Thomas - maybe because he's sophisticated sounding...? dunno.? There's a tune he does in G that I like a lot - Toby Woman Blues.
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: Johnm on October 02, 2004, 02:58:54 PM
Hi all,
After my previous post, I realized I hadn't listened to Gene Campbell in a long time, and so got out the LP I have of him on Wolf.  It's only half of his recorded output, so there's a lot of his stuff I've missed, including the "Toby Woman" you mentioned, Frank.  I can hear the similarity to Jesse Thomas you cite--a similar kind of crisp touch, and the melody Jesse Thomas sings on "No Good Woman Blues" is identical to the one Gene Campbell used on most of the tunes on the record I have.  It wouldn't be unfair to note that on the tunes from his earlier sessions on the album I have, he's quite repetitious, using essentially the same accompaniment for seven tunes in a row.  The later tunes show some really interesting stuff, though, that make me wish I had the Document CD that has all his tunes--a couple of tunes in F, a really super one in G, and new and fresh ideas in C.  I think he's definitely worth looking into, and I really like his voice.
All best,
Johnm
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: uncle bud on October 02, 2004, 07:46:08 PM
I only have a couple tunes by him, on the Catfish Texas Blues collection: Wandering Blues and Robbin' and Stealin' Blues. Sure does sound like he listened to a lot of Lonnie Johnson, like you said John. Re. flatpicking: lots of treble notes hit with the pick but it sounds like he's using fingers as well. Perhaps he was just one of those guys whose thumb travelled to the high strings a lot.? Agree about the voice too.

Will try to get this on the Juke soon, Alex, so you can hear a couple tunes. I don't think I have any other material by him.
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: Yves on October 06, 2004, 06:50:12 AM
Hello guys
Last summer at EBA Mike talked about Kid Prince Moore. We had a wonderfull jam with Mike singing this night
Back to France I rushed on the web to purchase that Document CD. What a discovery... for me. Sounds very close to some Blind Blake with a fluid guitar playing. "Mississippi water" and Georgia blues in the same C shape etc
Anyone knows that one, listened to him ?

I love the BB Hawkins as well. Use to perform "Jailhouse Fire" ... something of a mixed up confusion / adapted version of the original. Nobody's perfect ?

Which LP are Oscar Woods titles. I can't find 'em on my sheds ! ...- my wief said I got too many LP's I Checked 'em on the GD blues & gospel recording... I got 'em and I'm a bit frustrated !

There are many others interesting players I have to serach for on the sheds and will talk about later on.

Hello John I'm a bit lost when you explain that Gene Campbell - I never listened to him - plays a lot in C influenced by Lonnie Johnson. I thought that Lonnie used to play in Drop D and / or G6 "Bo carter" tuning.
The only song recorded by Lonnie Johnson that I firmly recognized as in C STD tuning is "Careless love". I'm probably missing something somewhere ?

So long
Yves
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: Johnm on October 07, 2004, 08:49:46 AM
Hi Yves,
You covered a lot of ground in your post!? My knowledge of Kid Prince Moore is limited to the two titles of his that were on the old Yazoo anthology "Ten Years Of Black Country Religion".? Those tunes, "Church Bells" and "Sign Of Judgement", are really beautiful, and Frank has posted a great rendition of "Church Bells" on the Back Porch here at the Weenie site.?

If you have them, you can find Oscar "Buddy" Woods on the old Yazoo LPs "Bottleneck Blues Guitar Classics", where he does "Fence Breakin' Blues" and "Evil Hearted Woman Blues", and on "Blues From The Western States", where he does "Don't Sell It, Don't Give It Away".

With regard to Lonnie Johnson's influence on Gene Campbell, it is not so much that Gene played out of the same positions/tunings as Lonnie did, but rather that his melodies, ways of phrasing and some of the runs that he played seem very influenced by Lonnie.
All best,
Johnm
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: Johnm on October 19, 2004, 10:09:30 PM
Hi all,
One musician who falls into this category who is kind of timely by virtue of John D having recently added an album of his to the Juke is Shirley Griffith.  I know some of you are familiar with Shirley, but for those who are not, he was born in Mississippi but left there as a young man and lived virtually his entire adult life in Indianapolis.  He recorded two albums for Prestige Bluesville in the '60s, one solo, and one with a friend, JT Adams, and also recorded a solo album for Blue Goose in the early '70s.
I feel like Shirley's musical core was formed during his years in Mississippi.  He did really stellar versions of many songs by Tommy Johnson and Ishmon Bracey, that he heard growing up.  Included among those tunes (on record) were "Big Road Blues", "Bye Bye Blues", "Maggie Campbell" and "Saturday Blues".  In addition, Shirley had some tunes of his own, "River Line Blues" and "Shaggy Hound Blues", that compare well with the greatest of Country Blues--they are really terrific.  He also played some Scrapper Blackwell-influenced numbers in D.
I was fortunate enough to see Shirley perform a couple of times, once at the Philadelphia Folk Festival and once at the Ann Arbor Blues Festival.  He was missing the index finger of his left hand, lost in an accident with an axe when he was a child, so when he played a B7 chord he always left the first string open.  He was an exceptional singer and really a strong guitarist, and seemed an unassuming, quiet kind of guy who just happened to be a great musician. 
All best,
Johnm   
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: Yves on October 20, 2004, 10:19:49 PM
Hello John
Shirley Griffith : I have these 2 old LP's the one with JT Adams and the blue goose that were some of my favorites to listen in the 70'. Really interesting to listen again. Fine player despite his left hand and really good singer. Great choice

I just received the JSP 4 Cd's set "Texas blues" which includes complete Oscar Woods recordings... I'll be much more familiar within a few days.

So long
Yves
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: Richard on October 21, 2004, 08:34:11 AM
I like Oscar Woods  :D
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: Yves on October 21, 2004, 10:13:38 AM
Hello Weenies

If you do not have the "Kid Prince Moore" document CD complete recordings you MUST have it
I got mine for a couple of weeks and already burn it !!!

Yves
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: NotRevGDavis on October 21, 2004, 01:53:30 PM
Is Robert Petway considered a lesser known player?
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: Johnm on October 21, 2004, 02:38:14 PM
Hi Gary,
Yes, I think Petway would definitely qualify as a lesser-known player, and a great one!  I used to read rumors that he was alive residing somewhere in Chicago (this would have been the 1970s).  I have never heard if he was tracked down, but I don't think so.  If he had never recorded anything but his version of "Catfish" he'd still have one of the best Country Blues recordings ever.
All best,
Johnm
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: phhawk on October 21, 2004, 10:02:41 PM
Howdy, Thought I'd throw my 2 cents worth in.  A few lesser knowns for consideration. George Torrey, Sam Montgomery, Poor Boy Lofton, Willie Reed and for post war there's Black Diamond and Dan Pickett. I'm sure there are others, but, that's all I can think of now.

Phil
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: uncle bud on October 22, 2004, 07:21:11 AM
Willie Reed

I really like his Dreaming Blues and have fooled around with playing it.

Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: phhawk on October 22, 2004, 08:14:31 AM
The other interesting thing about Dreaming Blues, and maybe I'm just misunderstanding the lyric, but it sure sounds like he slips the F word in there twice in the last verse.
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: Johnm on October 22, 2004, 06:54:45 PM
Very nice picks, Hawk.  George Torey falls into the very exclusive "2 titles only" club, I believe, along with Lane Hardin and Henry Spaulding.  And I'm with you, Andrew, on Willie Reed--those Texas A blues are hard to beat.  I'm a big fan of Willie Lofton's "Dark Road Blues", too, one of the best covers ever.
All best,
Johnm
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: uncle bud on November 02, 2004, 08:34:04 PM
The other interesting thing about Dreaming Blues, and maybe I'm just misunderstanding the lyric, but it sure sounds like he slips the F word in there twice in the last verse.

I listened a bit more carefully to this recently and while I can see how one could hear that, I'm hearing "I fought Corinna..."
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: Johnm on November 09, 2004, 06:26:50 AM
Hi all,
One lesser-known player who recently made it on to the Juke is Kentuckian Bill Williams, who did two albums for Blue Goose in the early '70s.  Bill was a very versatile player who would play pretty much anything, Blues certainly, but also old Pop tunes, Country, patriotic numbers ("The Star-Spangled Banner"!) and other stuff.  Of present-day players, I think in repertoire and approach he might most closely match Warner Williams, who was at Port Townsend last year. 
Some real sleepers on Bill's albums include "Pocahantas", a sensational A minor instrumental which seems like it might be a much groovier precursor of "Windy and Warm", "Chicken", his slippery version in G of the oft-recorded number, and "I'll Follow Her", a harder Blues number.
All best,
Johnm
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: uncle bud on November 09, 2004, 08:06:24 AM
Hi all,
One lesser-known player who recently made it on to the Juke is Kentuckian Bill Williams, who did two albums for Blue Goose in the early '70s.  Bill was a very versatile player who would play pretty much anything, Blues certainly, but also old Pop tunes, Country, patriotic numbers ("The Star-Spangled Banner"!) and other stuff.  Of present-day players, I think in repertoire and approach he might most closely match Warner Williams, who was at Port Townsend last year. 
Some real sleepers on Bill's albums include "Pocahantas", a sensational A minor instrumental which seems like it might be a much groovier precursor of "Windy and Warm", "Chicken", his slippery version in G of the oft-recorded number, and "I'll Follow Her", a harder Blues number.
All best,
Johnm

There's some good information on Bill Williams in the form of reproduced liner notes and reviews at Stefan Wirz's website, http://www.wirz.de/music/willfrm.htm.
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: Johnm on December 01, 2006, 09:14:10 AM
Hi all,
One musician who would seem to fall into this category is the Texas guitarist Carl Davis.  I heard him for the first time recently as an accompanist for Texas Alexander.  He accompanied Alexander on six songs recorded at a session in San Antonio on November 27, 1929, and returned to the studio with Willie Reed, backing Alexander on September 30, 1934 in Ft. Worth.  Like another Texan, Gene Campbell, Davis sounds as though he may have played with a flat pick.  He was a smooth and expert player who seemed particularly at home in G, but who also was comfortable in C, A, E and Dropped-D.  The only recordings I could find of his in the Document catalog appear on DOCD-5162, "Texas:  Black Country Dance Music", on which he plays four tracks from 1935 as "Carl Davis & Dallas Jamboree Jug Band".  Has anyone heard these tracks?  Based on how Davis sounded behind Texas Alexander, it seems like they might really be good.
All best,
Johnm
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: Bunker Hill on December 01, 2006, 10:00:22 AM
Hi all,
One musician who would seem to fall into this category is the Texas guitarist Carl Davis. 
FWIW our sum knowledge about Davis is based upon Ralph Miller and John Bentley's "Carl Davis: Shoe-Shine Jug Band Man" published in Jazz Report 5, no. 4 1966-67. This was reprinted in Blues World magazine in the 70s. If there's any interest I can unearth, scan and post as a new topic in main forum.
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: dj on December 01, 2006, 10:12:02 AM
Quote
f there's any interest I can unearth, scan and post

Yes, there's interest.  Even if it's only me. :)
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: Johnm on December 01, 2006, 10:55:07 AM
Hi Bunker Hill,
I would like to second dj's interest in the article you mentioned.
All best,
Johnm
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: waxwing on December 01, 2006, 11:39:23 AM
Same here, Bunk. And I have an interest in DOCD-5162 so may head oner to Down Home music this aft and see if I can scare one up.

All for now.
John C.
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: Nawahi on December 03, 2006, 07:03:36 AM
one great lesser kown player is Richard 'Hacksaw" Harney,in the 20`s he recorded with his brother as Pet & Can accompanying Walter Rhodes,and in the early 1970`s recorded a great album of solo guitar stuff,mostly rags in a blake type thing,if anyone has a intrest in ragtime blues guitar i highly recomend this c.d on Genes 9909
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: banjochris on December 03, 2006, 11:16:29 PM
The only recordings I could find of his in the Document catalog appear on DOCD-5162, "Texas:  Black Country Dance Music", on which he plays four tracks from 1935 as "Carl Davis & Dallas Jamboree Jug Band".  Has anyone heard these tracks?  Based on how Davis sounded behind Texas Alexander, it seems like they might really be good.

Those four recordings are nothing special, IMHO. Mindless moderately uptempo blues. It does sound to me like he plays with a flat pick. Of the four, "Flying Crow" is the best, with some jazzy chord changes and a little slower than the other pieces. The band sounds to me like they're just concerned about playing fast for dancing.

Another lesser-known player I've never read hardly anything about who only recorded four sides is Tom Dickson. I've always liked his "Happy Blues" and "Death Bell Blues."
Chris
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: Johnm on December 05, 2006, 05:39:57 PM
Hi all,
There is a thread on Tom Dickson located on page 19 of the Main Forum.
All best,
Johnm
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: banjochris on December 07, 2006, 11:39:06 PM
One early piano player I've been listening to a lot lately is Romeo Nelson -- he only recorded 4 pre-war sides, and I don't know if he was recorded later on or not. His "Head Rag Hop" is a cool boogie that never goes to the V chord, and "Dyin' Rider" (which I wish Yazoo would do a cleanup job on) is sort of a piano version of "Goin' to Brownsville," complete with fake crying. Any one have any info on him?
Chris
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: Bunker Hill on December 08, 2006, 10:36:46 AM
One early piano player I've been listening to a lot lately is Romeo Nelson -- he only recorded 4 pre-war sides, and I don't know if he was recorded later on or not. His "Head Rag Hop" is a cool boogie that never goes to the V chord, and "Dyin' Rider" (which I wish Yazoo would do a cleanup job on) is sort of a piano version of "Goin' to Brownsville," complete with fake crying. Any one have any info on him?
Living Blues 36 (Jan/Feb 1978) reprinted something that was written about him in the 50s and in the same issue Jim O'Neal wrote quite an informative obituary. FWIW Tracy Nelson (she of Mother Earth and the "19 year old" in Muddy's blues of that title) interviewed Nelson in the 60s and recounted part of it in the notes to the LP Rugged Piano Classics (Origin OJL15). I can scan and post if required.

Whilst I'm at it Nelson's Gettin' Dirty Just Shaking That Thing was probably the model for Clarence Lofton's hugely popular "I Don't Know".

To be best of my knowledge (which ain't great) he never recorded "post-war".

Apologies for the verbal diarrhoea...
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: banjochris on December 08, 2006, 10:51:21 AM
I'd love to see that Nelson stuff, Bunker Hill. Too bad if those four sides are it if he was still around and playing in the '50s and '60s. Thanks
Chris
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: Bunker Hill on December 08, 2006, 11:46:11 AM
I'd love to see that Nelson stuff, Bunker Hill. Too bad if those four sides are it if he was still around and playing in the '50s and '60s. Thanks
I've extracted from notes by Tracy Nelson to Rugged Piano Classics - Origin OJL 15. No date on record but was reviewed in Blues Unlimited 35, August 1966 which probably was what prompted the purchase. It would seem that my memory was at fault as to who conducted the interview as you will note from what follows:

We have, courtesy of Pete Welding of Downbeat Magazine and Testament Records, considerable original material on one musician: Romeo Nelson. This was developed in the course of an interview with Romeo conducted by Pete and Erwin Helfer in February, 1964. We present this information at length with the thought that Romeo Nelson's life and career are in many ways representative of those of the other artists on this record.

Romeo Nelson was born in 1902 in Springfield, Tenn, At the age of six, his mother moved to Chicago, taking Romeo and his brother with her. Romeo attended school there until 1915 when his family moved again -- to East St. Louis, Illinois, directly across the river from St. Louis proper. Here it was that Nelson became interested in music thru a man some years older than himself, remembered by Romeo as "Window", who played piano and sang in the taverns along the river front.

Romeo's family moved backed to Chicago in 1919 or so, soon after he had picked up on the piano, and the young man began to play around the city; he supported himself from that time until the 1940's, in fact, through a combination of music and gambling. His playing was confined mainly to house rent parties. These gigs netted him in the neighborhood of 15 or 20 dollars a week, putting him in the income bracket of an unskilled laborer.

It was while working house rent parties that Romeo ran into a number of other pianists around the city -- Clarence "Pinetop" Smith was particularly helpful to younger pianists, showing them figures on the keyboard; Romeo also remembers meeting and playing with such as Cow Cow Davenport and Clarence Lofton, as well as such unrecorded piano men as "Dollar Bill" and "Katy Red", These house rent parties in the Chicago area were exciting affairs, and extremely common in the 20's and 30's. Word would go around about the various parties to be held during the evening, and people would go to the houses where their favorite pianists would be playing. No admission was charged, but people paid for the food and spirits they consumed. The piano player was hired for a set fee by the person throwing the party. The celebrations would go on well into the small hours by which time the guests were all pretty drunk, Romeo recalled, "You could get away with anything -- just hit the keyboard with your elbows and fists, it didn?t make no difference to them, they were so drunk by then. But me, I wasn't a drinker -- didn't smoke neither -- so I used to play all the time I was working at one of those parties. In fact, that's where you get your ideas for new things. You try something out, and if you like it then you just work with it, until you have it all shaped up." Romeo was never much of a singer, he said, but it didn't matter much at the parties, because there was usually someone standing around the piano itching to sing himself. He remembers accompanying singer Red Nelson at some of the parties.

After Clarence Williams, who was an early influence on Nelson, via phonograph records, Romeo's fondest words were for Pinetop Smith, a man of great good humor and one eager to share his knowledge of the piano with others. Romeo said that the term "boogie woogie" was associated with the music that still bears the name only after Pinetop's record with that title in December 1928.

It was through the well-known Tampa Red that Romeo got to make his own records. Tampa was rooming in the home of Romeo's father-in-law. Mr. Foster, a native of Macon, Ga., as was Tampa Red. Tampa and Romeo got to be good friends, and one day the guitarist asked Romeo to accompany him to the studio while he cut come records for Mayo Williams. While there, Tampa urged Romeo to audition for Williams, Romeo recalled that he sat down at the piano and ran through a popular song, whereupon Williams asked him if he could play any blues or barrelhouse music. The pianist was happy to oblige and when he had finished playing, Williams told him he wanted to cut some stuff for him. On Thursday, Oct. 9, 1929, Nelson cut his classic performance of "Head Rag Hop" for Williams. The number was one he played at house rent parties which gave Tampa Red the idea of interjecting comments through the performance to simulate a party atmosphere.

Romeo recalled the big result of his recordings was that he began to command more money for playing house parties. After his records came out, he did play a few taverns in Chicago, among them the Subway, Tip Top, and Swan Clubs, all on the South Side,

Romeo continued his playing-gambling career until World War II, when he gave up the life for the steadier one of a regular job. He first did construction work, and then settled down to the less demanding trade of janitor, one he has stuck to ever since. "I never was much for hard work," he stated, "that's why I took up the piano in the first place."

Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: Bunker Hill on December 08, 2006, 11:50:00 AM
I've since performed a Weenie "search" and see that JohnM and others discussed the work of Nelson a couple of years back.
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: banjochris on December 08, 2006, 03:14:57 PM
Thanks a bunch, Bunker Hill. When I tried the search using the thing at the top of the site it didn't return anything, but it did when I clicked the "Search Forum" on the left side.
Chris
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: Slack on December 08, 2006, 05:16:33 PM
Quote
Thanks a bunch, Bunker Hill. When I tried the search using the thing at the top of the site it didn't return anything, but it did when I clicked the "Search Forum" on the left side.

Probably need to find a way to make this clearer --- but the search box above the forum is board specific.  If you want to search the whole forum make sure you are at the main index -- or use the Search Forum link on the left column.
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: dj on December 08, 2006, 05:25:30 PM
Thanks for the info on Romeo Nelson, Bunker Hill.  Mike Rowe gives a very condensed version of the same info in his notes to DOCD 5103, Boogie Woogie and Barrelhouse Piano, Vol. 2, adding that Nelson's given name was Iromeo, and that after his stint as a janitor he worked as an elevator operator for a publisher and was featured in the publisher's house journal in 1959.  He died on May 17, 1974. 
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: Bunker Hill on December 09, 2006, 01:40:56 AM
He died on May 17, 1974. 
When referring to Jim O'Neal's obit I perhaps should have said "belated". ;D

The first time a Romeo Nelson track found its way onto LP was Head Rag Hop in 1958 on the compilation Piano Jazz Vol. 1: Barrel House and Boogie Woogie (UK Brunswick BL-54014) which also featureed Cow Cow Davenport, Pine Top Smith, Speckled Red and Montana Taylor. The sleevenotes of Peter Gammond spoke of Nelson in the past tense! Surprisingly, although Head Hop was reissued many times on jazz labels over the next decade it wasn't until 1966 that a further two song were made available; Gettin' Dirty Just Shakin' That Thing on the aforementioned Origin LP and Dyin' Rider Blues on the Sam Charters RBF compilation, Piano Blues. The remaining two titles eventually appeared on microgrove in the mid-70s.

Enough of this mindnumbing minutae, I'm off to get a life. :)
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: Bunker Hill on December 09, 2006, 03:44:46 AM
...he worked as an elevator operator for a publisher and was featured in the publisher's house journal in 1959. 
Ah which would be "Man Here Blows Real Fine Piano" (Ednews 4, no. 5 , Scott, Foresman and Co. 1959), which Living Blues reprinted, my copy of which seems to be AWOL. Typical...
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: dj on December 09, 2006, 03:59:31 AM
Quote
The remaining two titles eventually appeared on microgrove in the mid-70s.

Should that be "The remaining title"?  The only Romeo Nelson cut I'm aware of that you didn't mention is 1129 Blues (The Midnight Special).  If there's another Nelson song somewhere, I'd like to seek it out.
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: Stefan Wirz on December 09, 2006, 04:04:31 AM
If that info is of any use:
The Brunswick Album Discography (http://www.bsnpubs.com/nyc2/brunswick.html) gives release date of Brunswick BL-54014 as early as '1955'. The frollowing (re?)issue on Vogue/Coral LVA 9069 (see pic) which I found at eBay is dated '1957':

PIANO JAZZ VOL.1

BARREL HOUSE & BOOGIE WOOGIE

1957 U.K. VOGUE CORAL CATALOGUE NUMBER: LVA 9069

SIDE 1:

MONTANA TAYLOR: Detroit Rocks,Indiana Avenue Stomp - SPECKLED RED: The Dirty Dozen No.1,The Dirty Dozen No.2,Wilkens Street Stomp - ROMEO NELSON: Head Rag Hop

SIDE 2:

PINETOP SMITH: Pinetop's Boogie Woogie,Pinetop's Blues,Jump Steady Blues,I'm Sober Now - COW COW DAVENPORT: Cow Cow Blues,State Street Jive.
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: Bunker Hill on December 09, 2006, 05:16:31 AM
Quote
The remaining two titles eventually appeared on microgrove in the mid-70s.
Should that be "The remaining title"? 
Yes, sorry wasn't concentrating. An all too recurrent complaint these days. :(
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: Bunker Hill on December 09, 2006, 05:26:18 AM
If that info is of any use:
The Brunswick Album Discography (http://www.bsnpubs.com/nyc2/brunswick.html) gives release date of Brunswick BL-54014 as early as '1955'. The frollowing (re?)issue on Vogue/Coral LVA 9069 (see pic) which I found at eBay is dated '1957':
Absolutely Stefan. I was simultaneously consulting my printed version of the US Decca jazz LP catalogue and the sleeve notes to the Vogue-Coral LP in my possession and quoted the date of the latter rather than former. Duh. Must refrain from posting early Saturday mornings and curb the knee-jerk reactions until later in the day when the synapses have had a chance to recover from the night before.  Just as well you don't have the like of me helping you out with your discographies, eh? ;)
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: mississippijohnhurt1928 on December 23, 2006, 06:14:58 PM
How about Bo Weavil Jackson and JD Short they're pretty unappreciated.
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: uncle bud on February 09, 2012, 08:13:17 AM
The only recordings I could find of his in the Document catalog appear on DOCD-5162, "Texas:  Black Country Dance Music", on which he plays four tracks from 1935 as "Carl Davis & Dallas Jamboree Jug Band".  Has anyone heard these tracks?  Based on how Davis sounded behind Texas Alexander, it seems like they might really be good.

Those four recordings are nothing special, IMHO. Mindless moderately uptempo blues. It does sound to me like he plays with a flat pick. Of the four, "Flying Crow" is the best, with some jazzy chord changes and a little slower than the other pieces. The band sounds to me like they're just concerned about playing fast for dancing.

Unfairly dragging up a quote from almost six years ago (sorry Chris!), simply because I was just listening to the Carl Davis and the Dallas Jamboree Band tracks. I agree in part that the band has a limited "good time" sound to some extent, but there is some stuff of interest in their four tracks, with arrangements that seem to have had some thought put into them (a little like the Memphis Jug Band). Elm Street Woman Blues has some lively guitar playing, Flying Crow is a good one, and Oscar Woods fans might note that "Dusting the Frets" is the same tune as "Don't Sell It, Don't Give It Away", but Dusting was recorded nearly a year earlier than Woods' first solo version.

Washboard and kazoo warnings apply.
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: Annette on March 26, 2012, 11:28:45 AM
Blind Joe Reynolds is probably my fave "lesser known player" a lot of those mentioned previously too.

I also like the St Louis school - most of whom seem to have been called Henry something or other...

Annette
Title: Re: Lesser known players?
Post by: Johnm on February 05, 2013, 11:15:36 AM
Hi all,
I was thinking that Papa Egg Shell, Lawrence Casey of St. Louis, really qualified in this category.  He had only four solo sides released, and they all showcase a very highly evolved individual guitar style--"high concept" with an interestingly varied use of the thumb in the right hand.  He was a terrific player, and nice singer too, who lived into at least the 1960s, but was never recorded in that portion of his life, as far as I know (he may not have still been playing then). I believe he was known to be a playing partner of the St. Louis pianist, Henry Brown, whom he recorded at least one title with, too.
All best,
Johnm
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