Topic: Help me choose which National

[dowling]

hello everyone,
iv been saving for a national guitar and nearly have the cash to buy one but i have a problem with my legs and the nearest shop to nottingham that i know of that sells national guitars is in London (reso center)and i carnt get there at moment, so iam thinking of ordering one from of the net, and what i wanted to know is i am either going for the Delphi vintage steel or the Estrelita but i want a guitar that i can play slide on and alternate tunings but one that also sounds good strummed in standard tunning, iv never tried either of these guitars so i havvent got a clue, can anyone help me i would really appreciate the help ,thanks folks.
Paul.
C*KID

[Richard]

I'm no expert but offer these thoughts..........

I suggest that you really ought to go try something, who care what make as long as you can hear the difference between a wood and metal body, so that's the first hurdle to get past!

I would guess the wood body is a warmer sound and probably more responsive without picks, now I don't know if wear picks but I would venture to say if you go the metal bodied route it's a good idea, my tricone sounds rubbish without 'em and remember that using picks does not neccessarily mean clanky high volume. 

Now, I may get shot for even daring to suggest the next bit  but I do feel quite strongly on this.

But, do consider other makes as what is commonly called a National these days is a National Resophonic and all it is, is a very good copy of a pre-war National guitar - it ain't a "National" guitar, it's just very good marketing and a well made copy guitar, but ask yourself if the name did not have National in it, would they be as popular as they are?

With that I'll go and dig a hole somewhere but think on what I have said you could save yourself some money, Amistar make a very good instrument or better still for the price of that new National copy you might be in the market to find yourself a really nice a used instrument. My '29 Tricone has loads of patina and dents, but it has unquestionably has "the sound" and it is also appreciating in value, new ones go down not up!

I hope that helps and not confuses!! 

[uncle bud]

The new Nationals I've played are for the most part great guitars, so while they're not the vintage grails, they're better than any of the cheaper resos out there (says an owner of a cheaper reso). Some sound better than others and I don't know why (that's for gearier-headed folks than me). I heard and played a Reso-Rocket owned by a Weenie at Port Townsend that was astounding. And I don't even like cutaways. (note we aren't bringing Ron Philips' guitars into this conversation, as that's a whole other ball of wax.)

Paul, if you're set on a National and limited travel-wise, I'd say one thing you can do is order their audio catalog which features recordings of all their different models. It's $15 or something but, considering the price of a new National, seems it would be well worth it to get an idea of the different sounds. Go to http://www.nationalguitars.com for info on getting it.

Also, while some folks here will pipe up with more info no doubt, it's also worth surfing over to the IGS forum site and browsing old posts. Lots of reso-maniacs over there with a good knowledge base.

[blueshome]

I have a National Resophonic guitar from 1994 - it's great and I won't sell it, but if I were buying today I would look for an old one - there were few about then and I knew nothing about them so NR was a sensible option.

It would seem you have ?1500-1600 to spend - may I suggest you look on www.vintagenationals.com where he has a good selection of metal and wood old Nationals (which you might be able to afford with the $ where it is) - sound samples too so you can hear what they sound like. At least then you will have a feel for things before splashing a lot of cash.

The best thing in any case is to try to hear some resos first hand - it may be worth appealling for help in  this on www.michaelmesser.co.uk where there a quite a number of UK based  reso owners who might be willing to help you out.

[dowling]

Hi Richard,uncle bud,Blueshome,
 thanks for the help its appreciated .Uncle bud its funny u mention the national catalog I'm listening to it right now(artist in residence) and its a beautiful album of music with a 1920s feel, thats the sound i love in music not just the old blues, but that era of music in general,just cannot get enough.
Richard i been looking on the net and i don't have quite enough cash so i think if i wait and try to get to play some is a good idea,the reason I'm so stuck on a national is from every thing iv read they sound like they really care about the guitars they make and i just love American guitars over the years when i think all the guitars i wish id never let go of ,its funny that they are all American made ,i think IMO that they just make better guitars from better materials.
The only thing that worries me about the old nationals(my dream to own one)is the age i don't know because iv never owned one but I'm 34 now and if i spent the ?2000 id want that guitar to last me for 34 years do you think the old ones will hold out ,and from what i have read the new ones are really well made,boy theres a lot to think about.
Thanks for your responce, its great to be able to get advice ,what would we do without the net ,you know i offten think when I'm reading though the posts at weenie you could go your whole life life and not glean as much knowledge of the blues, than what is held in the Weenie archives.
thanks again,
Paul.
C*KID

[rpg51]

Donmo is an option.
I owned a National Resophonic M2.  Sold it recently.  It is a well built guitar, I liked it a lot.  For some reason they are very hard to sell for a reasonable price.  Of course that means you might find a good used one for a good price if you are patient and keep tabs on eBay etc.  Next time I will buy used.  Makes much more sense from and purely economic standpoint.

The problem with new guitars is that they drop in value the moment you take them out of the showroom.  Probably 25% or so.  Vintage guitars increase in value.  I find that I am always changing guitars and so I'm gradually moving toward the vintage guitars so I don't lose my shirt.  Plus, they are very cool guitars that equal or exceed the newer guitars in most respects - in my opinion anyway.  You do have to be prepared to invest in repairs, but most anything can be repaired.  For example, I bought a vintage ladder braced grand concert recently in beautiful condition cosemetically but it needed a neck set and a new bridge.  I spent $500 to get that work done by a pro.  Now I have a terrific guitar that looks and plays like a dream and it is going up in value as the years progress, not down.

[Richard]

Dowling, I just happen to like old things  so maybe I was a bit hard on the NR in my previous post, I didn't want to ruin your dream..whoops! But, having just read rpg51's post I feel exonerated as he is putting the point very eloquently, particularly regarding the resale values on used NRs - give that some thought before you spend your money 

If you do end up buying something vintage you will get not only the satisfation in owing a great instrument but you will also get the sound of the period because the materials are different. And, if you get something that is in good conditon, have it set up to suit you and look after it there is no problem - my tricone is 78 this year and I see no reason whatsoever why it won't do another 78 years!

And finally, to compound my faith in period Nationals only yesterday I bought a very rare '36 model   omg 

[dowling]

Hi
yes I'm coming round to that way of thinking myself  Richard (i love old as well)the only reason i persuaded myself against it before was that i don't know anything about old gitfiddles ,but i think i agree with you all, I'm just gonna wait until i find a vintage one,i definitely not going to buy new rpg51 make sense,i could be tempted into a used one(Estrellita sounds great on national CD) but I'm gonna get out there and play them before i buy ,having said that do you think its cheaper to get them from the US there a bit thin on the ground over here i suspect. has anyone brought of ebay,thanks for all the advice,
appreciated,cheers.
Paul.

[Richard]

Ah, are we getting there   

I knew nothing about old guitars but looked, did my homework on 'the' ones to go for, at least what would not go down in value and jumped in. Even braver, my second purchase was a US import from a small dealer and it was fine, since then I have brought in another one and you just have to rely on trust - but if you are dealing with a weenie you are part the way there! As for Ebay, I was absolutley ripped off on one I bought and swore I'd never do it again but I risked it and it was ok. Personally I would not recommend it if you are spend lots of loot.

Decide what you think you might like and  just do the net untill you have feel for prices and all the rest of it and even conside a reputable dealer for the older stuff. 

As for NR, now you have it... look out for a used one that has already taken the big price drop   

Whatever you do try a few or at least of the type you are after 

[Stuart]

Paul:

Another option:

http://www.vintagenationals.com/

[Richard]

That's a really good site as well... and don't forget  http://www.notecannons.com/  go do the homework 

[rpg51]

Another word of advice based on personal experience.  Always insist on a 48 hour approval period if buying without personal inspection.  Be prepared to pay the postage both ways. 

[headrc]

Hi Dowling .....You have a PM regarding yuour search for a guitar ....RH