Topic: Miller's Breakdown

[Lastfirstface]

- E standard tuned low

- something like 0xx757 rocked down to 0xx656 and back

- second fret 5th string, fourth fret 5th string, second fret 4th string, then a bend at the fifth fret on the 4th string and back down through the last two notes

[eric]

Dropped D?

[Prof Scratchy]

 * What playing position/tuning did Little Hat Jones use to play the song?
 -Drop D

   * Where is Little Hat Jones fretting what he plays over the first four bars of the form?
 -  0xx565//////; 0xx434///////; 0xx565///////; 0xx232///////

   * Where does Little Hat Jones fret the bass run he plays in the 7th and 11th bars of the form?
 - 5str 0 2; 4str 0 3b 0; 5str 2; 4str 0; 6str 0

[blueshome]

Just got to this, I?m with the Professor- I thought the bass run was the giveaway .

[Old Man Ned]

A bit late coming to this as I've been aware, unusually, without a guitar.  I'm also hearing this in D, assuming dropped D tuning, but I'm having trouble hearing anything on the 6th string. The bass run I'm hearing as open, hammer on to 2nd then 3rd fret on the 5th string. Open 4th string, then a bend at the 3rd fret 4th string. Back to open 5th string,  hammer on to 2nd then 3rd fret, then open 4th string.

[Johnm]

Hi all,
It seems like everyone who intended to respond to the puzzler on Little Hat Jones' "You Don't Mean Me No Good" has done so by now, so I'll post the answers.

For Little Hat Jones' "You Don't Mean Me No Good":
   * His playing position was D in standard tuning.  A couple of factors help to identify the playing position as D in standard tuning as opposed to dropped-D tuning:
   1) He never hits the low D note which would be right there for the taking on the open sixth string if he were playing in dropped-D; and
   2) When he goes to the IV chord in the song, for the first time, at :09, he hits the low root of the IV chord in the bass, while going back and forth between the third fret of the second string and the first fret of the first string in a G7 chord.  Were he playing in dropped-D, he would have to fret that low root of the IV chord at the fifth fret of the sixth string, making what he's playing in the treble at the same time unreachable.  In D standard, the phrase is right under the hand.  (He could be playing in DGDGBE and getting the root of the IV chord on the open fifth string, but a host of other things he plays eliminate that tuning from the realm of possibility.)
   * In the first four bars of the form, Little Hat Jones goes from a D7 in the first bar, played on the first three strings, 5-3-5 going from third to first string, to a D dim7 in the second bar, fretted 4-3-4 on the first three strings, returning to the 5-3-5 D7 in the third bar, and in the fourth bar (after the opening solo) goes from the third fret of the fourth string to the fourth fret of the fourth string in the fourth bar, ending up with a D7 voiced 4-5-3-5 on the top four strings, from fourth string to first. 

This is a really unusual move.  It is somewhat akin to the Scrapper Blackwell-derived move that Robert Johnson used in virtually all of his songs played out of A position in standard tuning, in which he goes from an A7 at 9-8-9 on the top three strings to an A dim7 at 8-7-8 on the top three strings.  In Robert Johnson's case, he's hitting the root of both chords on the open fifth string and voicing the fifth, seventh and third of the two chords on the third, second and first strings, respectively.  In Little Hat Jones' move, he is voicing both chords with the root on the second string, moving the seventh down and back on the third string and the fifth down and back on the first string.  It isn't until the fourth bar of the form that Little Hat Jones adds the third of the chord, on the fourth string.  The move is pretty close to what Doc Watson did two frets higher, in E, on his arrangement of "Deep River Blues", though Doc voiced the third of both chords on the fourth string.

   * The run that Little Hat Jones played in the 7th and 11th bars was played as follow:  It starts on beat two of those bars with a triplet going from the open fifth string to the second fret of the fifth string and then to the open fourth string.  On 3+, he strikes the bent third fret of the fourth string twice.  On beat 4, he hits another triplet, going from the open fourth string down to the second fret of the fifth string and then returning to the open fourth string.  On the downbeat of the 8th and 12th bars, he concludes the run by hitting the open sixth string which is a low E note (relative to his tuning), thus pointing once again to D position in standard tuning rather than dropped-D tuning. 

Thanks to all who participated in this puzzler and I hope you enjoyed the song.  I believe all of Little Hat Jones' recordings from the 1960s have been put up on a youtube channel by Fede Cochero, so if you'd like to hear the rest of his recorded performances from the field recordings done in the '60s, you should look for them there.  It's apparent in listening to them that he could still sing and play really well at that point.  It's a shame he didn't get to record or perform more then, but it's also possible that he wasn't interested in pursuing that at that time of his life. 

I'll look for another puzzler to post soon.

All best,
Johnm   

[Johnm]

Hi all,
I have a new puzzler for those of you who are interested.  It is Lemuel Turner's "Jake Bottle Blues".  Here it is:



The questions on "Jake Bottle Blues" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did Lemuel Turner use to play the song?
   * Do you think he played the song with the guitar in the conventional position or lap style?  What did you hear that affected your choice?

Please use only your ears and your your guitar to arrive at your answers, and please don't post any answers before 8:00 AM your time on Wednesday, April 11.  Thanks for your participation, and I hope you enjoy the tune.
All best,
Johnm

[Johnm]

Hi all,
Any takers for the Lemuel Turner "Jake Bottle Blues" puzzler?  Come one, come all!
All best,
Johnm

[Thomas8]

Spanish tuned to A
I think it's played lap style as it sounds like Oscar Woods, Black Ace.
Plus he plays a lot of chords sliding up and down the neck 

[bob long]

The verdict of the collective EuroWeenie gathering panel is high bass A tuning and lap style. 

The ascending slide bass note is (according to Richard and Prof. Scratchy) is the give away for it being lap style.

Having a lovely time.  Wish you were all here.  About to do the quiz.

Love from the "Euroweenies".

[harriet]

I arrived at the same conclusion as Thomas8.

[blueshome]

Lap style, Spanish ar A

[Gumbo]

Having accidentally read some replies to the puzzle, I couldn't get back to not thinking Spanish in A, and can't hear anything to persuade me otherwise. 

Is that long slide technically awkward in normal playing position? To me it sounds like lap style because of a light flowing freedom of movement that just sounds different to normal playing position.

[Old Man Ned]

I'm thinking lap style too.  To me, the overall sound is similar to a steel guitar, which again, to me, suggests lap style.  Also, as the bottle neck or whatever is sometimes covering multiple strings and occasionally reaches very high up the neck, I'm thinking to get the clean, clear sound I'm hearing, lap style would offer the player more control.

Love the tune.

[Johnm]

Hi all,
The Lemuel Turner puzzler has been up a while and I think all of the responses have been made, so I will post the answers.

For Lemuel Turner's "Jake Bottle Blues":
   * His tuning was Spanish tuning.  I don't believe he was in the so-called high bass version of Spanish, R-3-5-R-3-5, but rather in Spanish as it was most commonly played by Country Blues players, 5-R-5-R-3-5.  There are a number of reasons for this.  While it is true that he never once hits the low 5 note on the open sixth string which is there in conventional Spanish tuning, throughout the piece, when he hits brush strokes in the bass, the next voice above his low root that sounds is the fifth of the chord.  In high-bass Spanish, the next voice above the low root would be the third, and he never once sounds that note.  Moreover, when he is barring with his slide at the twelfth fret across to the fourth string, and he brushes the low root in the bass, the next pitches to sound above that are the 5 note at the twelfth fret of the fourth string and the root at the twelfth fret of the third string.
   * I agree with all who responded that Lemuel Turner was playing lap-style for the song.  He is frequently barring the fourth through the first string over the course of the song, a move that is not impossible with the guitar in the conventional playing position, but that is far more awkward in that position than it is in lap-style, especially to bar several strings perpendicular to the length of the strings and have the bar play in tune.  Melodically, much of the piece lives from the twelfth to the seventeenth fret of the first string, an area really difficult to access with the guitar in the conventional playing position, but no particular problem at all when playing lap-style.

Thanks to all who responded, and I hope people enjoyed the tune.  I know Lightnin' Wells knows something about Lemuel Turner if he is in the neighborhood--I know nothing about Lemuel Turner.  I will look for another puzzler to post soon.
All best,
Johnm