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Country Blues => Weenie Campbell Main Forum => SOTM - Song Of The Month => Topic started by: harriet on August 14, 2015, 04:30:19 AM
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Roll and Tumble is a beloved blues classic that has endured for over 85 years. With your indulgence this thread presents some points of note in the song's journey as it "rolled and tumbled" along over the years through various re-incarnations.
Perhaps the earliest recording was done as Minglewood Blues by the Cannon Jog Stompers recorded in March 14, 1928.
http://youtu.be/lxR8myBIDds (http://youtu.be/lxR8myBIDds)
Don't you never let one woman worry your mind
Don't you never let one woman worry your mind
Well she will keep you worried, troubled all the time
Don't you think your faro was little and cute like mine
Don't you wish your faro was little and cute like mine
She's a married, she's a married woman but she comes to see me sometime
Don't you never let no woman worry your mind
Don't you never let no woman worry your mind
She'll keep you troubled, worried all the time
Well I got a letter, mama, you oughta heard it read
Well I got a letter, darlin', you oughta heard it read
Said you're comin' back, baby, now be on your way
However, Roll and Tumble is usually associated and credited to Hambone Willie Newbern's open spanish tuning version recorded a year later in 1929:
http://youtu.be/Qyx2Z647kJ4 (http://youtu.be/Qyx2Z647kJ4)
Often covered under different names through the decades by such luminaries as Sleepy John Estes, Big Joe Williams, Furry Lewis and Fred McDowell, there is also the very famous "If I Had Possession Over Judgment Day" by Robert Johnson in 1936 and "Dough Roller Blues" by Garfield Akers was recorded in 1930:
http://youtu.be/sb6b9bLkDPc (http://youtu.be/sb6b9bLkDPc)
Next stop jumps ahead to the 1950 Parkway version, (which to my ear has rhythms reminiscent of Indian War Chants.) Recorded for Leonard Chess, featuring Little Walter and Baby Face Leroy Foster the Parkway label credits the Baby Face Leroy Trio, with vocals by Leroy, and Muddy Waters as the songwriter.
http://youtu.be/Pca_S6sj_SE (http://youtu.be/Pca_S6sj_SE)
Further down the road,recorded by Alan Lomax in Como, Mississippi, September 25, 1959 is the magnificent and minimalist Rosa Lee Hill version.
http://youtu.be/k2sTm5cowGY (http://youtu.be/k2sTm5cowGY)
Rolling along to the the sixties 1961, Howlin' Wolf recorded "Down in the Bottom", which employed a new set of lyrics and is credited to Willie Dixon. L. Burnside recorded what he titled "Rollin' Tumblin'" on several occasions, first on August 1967 for George Mitchell as well...
http://youtu.be/KUyBQuT0bIo (http://youtu.be/KUyBQuT0bIo)
Concurrent in Chicago 1969 Sunnyland Slim recorded a version with Johnny Shines and Backwards Sam Firk and also as a stunning piano blues:
http://youtu.be/uf7o7ReurMA (http://youtu.be/uf7o7ReurMA)
On a different note there's Eddie One String Jones minimalist driving and savage version recorded on the streets of Los Angeles accompanying himself on a home-made instrument akin to a diddley bow, which first appeared on vinyl in 1964 and then in 1993 on the Sam Charters Label
http://youtu.be/UACDi5MuqrM (http://youtu.be/UACDi5MuqrM)
The final thought from me on this subject will "roll and tumble" off with Joe Callicott's haunting version from Ain't Gonna Lie to You reportedly recorded in 1967 by George MItchell and released May 6, 2003 by Fat Possum Records
http://youtu.be/7F8-a2eh-ns (http://youtu.be/7F8-a2eh-ns)
Well I rolled and I tumbled, I cried all night long
Well I rolled and I tumbled, I cried all night long
I didn't have nobody to teach me right from wrong
It may be two, three days, may be a mont' or more
It may be two, three days, may be a mont' or more
Oh well the Good Book, said it teach, you got to, oh, reap just what you sow
Well I called my baby, called her to the door
Well I called my baby, I called her to the door
Said if you want, I tell you, woman, I don't, don't need you no more
Well I rolled and I tumbled, cried the whole night long
Well I rolled and I tumbled, I cried the whole night long
Says, I didn't have nobody to teach me right from wrong
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Excellent choice harriet! So many variations and styles.
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I love the Rosa Lee Hill version - although the Hambone Willie version reminds me of the way my dad played, back when I was a kid. GREAT selection!
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Great choice. Certainly a widely used melody format. I think we can come up with quite a few more songs from the prewar era that are only minor variations melodically but with very different lyrics, similar in both regards to Minglewood. Two I can come up with off the top of my head from Charley Patton would be Down the Dirt Road Blues and Banty Rooster, interestingly played in C and Spanish, respectively. Don't have time to embed youtubes and lyrics right now but will do so later. [edited in 8/15/15] There are many more out there with that descending from the octave root down to the root melodic line. Let's hear from others.
http://youtu.be/kxO2752Zt7A (http://youtu.be/kxO2752Zt7A)
Not wanting a lyric discussion to break out in an SOTM topic, you can find 12 pages of discussion on the lyrics to Down The Dirt Road Blues here: http://weeniecampbell.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=4250.0 (http://weeniecampbell.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=4250.0)
http://youtu.be/maVI8TIe92g (http://youtu.be/maVI8TIe92g)
These seem pretty clear, so I'll risk posting my take on 'em.
Banty Rooster Blues
V1 ? I?m gonna buy me a banty put ?im in my back do?
I?m gonna buy me a banty put ?im in my back do?
So he see a stranger callin? he?ll flop his wings and crow
V2 ? What you want with a rooster, he won?t crow ?fore day
What you want with a rooster, he won?t crow ?fore day
What you want with a man when he won?t do nothin? he say
V3 ? What you want with a hen won?t cackle when she lay
What you want with a hen won?t cackle when she lay
What you want with a woman when she won?t do nothin? I say
V4 ? Ah, take my picture, hang it up in Jackson wall
Ah, take my picture, hang it up in Jackson wall
Anybody ask you what about it, tell ?em that?s all, that?s all
V5 ? My hook?s in the water and my cork?s on top
My hook?s in the water and my cork?s on top
How can I lose, Lord, what the hell?ve I got
V6 ? I know my doggity when I hear him bark
I know my doggity when I hear him bark
I can tell my rider if I feel her in the dark
Wax
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Thanks for your selection of "Rollin' and Tumblin'" for SOTM, Harriet, and for the work you did, tracking down sources and different versions of the song. Your post brings up an interesting point I've been thinking about for some time: Are songs that share the same melody and chord structure the same song, despite having altogether different lyrics? At this point, just in my own opinion, a song is "Rollin' and Tumblin'" only if it has a rollin' and tumblin' verse as the linchpin of its lyrics. Judged by that standard, I suppose I would disqualify "New Minglewood Blues" and "If I Had Possession Over Judgement Day" as being versions of "Rollin' and Tumblin'". For me, the Hambone Willie Newbern version is kind of the gold standard, structurally, starting the first two lines on the IV chord, and using a slide, but my favorite versions to listen to are Rosa Lee Hill's and Joe Callicott's. I don't think there is one correct answer to what it is that defines a song, though I suppose there is an answer as far as copyright law is concerned. In any event, thanks for a great choice for a SOTM topic.
All best,
Johnm
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I see what you mean, John, but I think this "song family" ? which might be the best way to think about it ? has such a distinctive melody and main riff it's a bit of an unusual case.
The whole "Going to Brownsville" family, Sleepy John, Furry Lewis, Fred McDowell fit in, too, and it may be interesting to think about that the vast majority of these versions all come from the Memphis area or just outside it.
PS. "If I Had Possession Over Judgement Day" definitely qualifies; it has a rolling and tumbling verse!
Chris
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Great choice, Harriet. --And good points, John. I think the best known legal case in this area is the "He's So Fine" - "My Sweet Lord" lawsuit. There are no shared lyrics, but definitely musical similarities.
Maybe what we need is an agreed upon way to organize songs that share similarities, starting with ones that are very close (the "same" song) re: musical structure and lyrics, and then branch off from there, noting the differences. It shouldn't be difficult as the musical structure and lyrics of various songs will likely make the categories self-evident.
Those are two good examples, Wax. I'm sure there are others.
While I was writing this--and doing a search for "Song Families," Chris posted his message. He makes a good point. I think that some discussion of what was in circulation and lines or paths of transmission from one musician to another is something to consider as well. There's a lot we'll never know, but IMHO, it seems obvious that there was much more going on than what was recorded.
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Good catch on "If I Had Possession", Chris. I guess my screw-up is an indication of how long it has been since I listened to that song--donkey's years!
All best,
Johnm
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Hi all,
In reference to Johnm's thoughts and Chris' reply: Fiddle tune folks---scholars and others; Mike Seeger and John Hartford come to mind---have used the concept of "tune families" for some time now as a way to discuss items that have enough musical elements in common to be thought of as "related."
The West Tennessee and North Mississippi provenance and the character of the fill lick; the 6/8ish instrumental section between the vocal lines; as well as a structure that starts on the 4 chord---all this makes for a "Roll & Tumble family" of tunes, to my mind. Lyrics are more ephemeral in this scheme.
Due to printed Old World origins for some American tunes, the fiddle folk are sometimes in a position to assign a "parent tune" to a family.
I doubt country blues ever knows who its Mama is!
best,
bruce
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Great choice Harriet! And way to go throwing in a couple of outliers - to get a 'tune family' discussion going. Such quality and diversity! I've always considered the Baby Face Leroy version a masterpiece of pure fun.
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If we accept it's a tune family:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wQ9T7HgPNQ&spfreload=10 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wQ9T7HgPNQ&spfreload=10)
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And again!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAbj_g2UBhE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAbj_g2UBhE)
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Thanks for the warm topic reception!
Whichever one I am listing to is my "Favorite of the Moment," and thanks for the interesting and informative discussion on the family of songs concept.
Wondering if anyone has this in their repetoire and if any of the acoustic songs are the basis. I hear alot of electric based on the later R.L Burnside (I think) and Joe Chiarelli I believe based his on the Newburn version. Myself, I've studied the Mcdowell, a version from Michael Messer along the lines of his resonator performance, Patton's Banty Rooster through MM as well and the Callicott version via John Miller.
Welcome to 2 new members of the "family" in that case by blueshome from Tampa Red and Howling Wolf, I grabbed the share code and took the "s" off the "https" so these would display in the thread - hope thats ok.
Tampa Red:
http://youtu.be/6wQ9T7HgPNQ (http://youtu.be/6wQ9T7HgPNQ)
Howling Wolf:
http://youtu.be/xAbj_g2UBhE (http://youtu.be/xAbj_g2UBhE)
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Super! Thank you for this Harriet!
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
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Roll and Tumble is a beloved blues classic that has endured for over 85 years.
Fabulous topic, Harriet - thanks for posting this! Count me as "tune family" proponent... this has to be one of the most pervasive in country blues... even Sleepy John Estes' "The Girl I Love Got Long Curly Hair" and Yank Rachell's "Lake Michigan Blues" fit into the family.
Speaking of SJE - The Girl I Love was the first tune Mike, Kim and I ever recorded for youtube, more than SEVEN years ago... crappy video and worse audio quality, but the playing still stands up, I think:
http://youtu.be/N1FOK9KVzVs (http://youtu.be/N1FOK9KVzVs)
And thanks for including the Joe Callicott and Rosalie Hill - among the best imaginable!
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Nice job, Harriet. I hadn't heard a number of those. Is the Burnside version with the harmonica another George Mitchell recording? The one I have is solo.
Rollin' and Tumblin' is surely one of the few songs where you can say, "I've got another one-string version." Sadly not on youtube, but Moses Williams does a cool one string version that can be found on Drop On Down in Florida.
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Thanks Uncle Bud, Stefan Wirz attributed to a Mitchell according via a reference of according to : Fancourt & McGrath 2012, p. 96, and with the note "this recording first published on and taken from Revival LP RVS 1009 (UK 1971) "Hard Time Mississippi" --- never re-released on CD". There's a screen of the referred to LP label during the presentation.
I will see if I can find the Mose Williams version. I would like to hear it. I found a clip of a video of him on youtube which I like alot.
Harriet
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I've attached the Williams version here. If I may make a pitch - Drop On Down in Florida is a very interesting set with some unusual and fine music and little known players. I'm a happy customer.
Mike Seeger also does a slide banjo version of this song. And there's a Napoleon Strickland fife and drum version that I'd have to listen to harder to pick out the tune.
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Whoa thanks so much for the clip and the referral to both the album and the Dust-to-Digital site - I would be interested in the Florida compilation so thanks for that as well.
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Hi all,
I thought I'd do my own version of "Rolled and Tumbled". It's attached below.
All best,
Johnm
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Hi all,
I thought of another "Song Family" version of "Rolled and Tumbled", and a particularly strong one: Robert Johnson's "Traveling Riverside Blues".
All best,
Johnm
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Nice version, John. Funky! Baritone again?
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Thanks, uncle bud! Yes, that was on the baritone guitar.
All best,
Johnm
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Great version, John! Loved it!
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
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John - I love the chord you're using on the opening lines - really opens things up... lots of ingredients in here!
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Nice one Johnm, sounds like you were really getting... and digging into it!
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Well done, John! It certainly merits inclusion in the next volume of the "Bellingham Field Recordings!"
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Thanks, Zohar, Frank, John D., and Stuart. I'm glad you guys like it. Re the opening phrase, I realized, Frank, that nobody sings to the IV chord there--they sing to the I chord right through that phrase, so I decided to play to the I chord, too, only acknowledging that IV chord with its root in the bass, sort of like Robert Pete Williams does sometimes. Anyhow, . . . .
All best,
Johnm
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https://soundcloud.com/mr-omuck/rt-1
My whack at it.
none of the embed functions will it seems
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Here's me doing it in my younger days (1994). I think it's one of the first slide tunes I tried to learn back in the '60s when I used to play with a kitchen knife on a Harmony F hole guitar with a severely warped neck. I always just kind of 'beat it out' as primitively as I could.
http://picosong.com/JFzr (http://picosong.com/JFzr)
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Very nice, gents. Enjoyed both versions and different approaches -- the classic rollicking slide version and the Sleepy John meets Big Bill filtered through the O'Muckotron -- very much.
BTW, if posting Soundcloud links you have the option of embedding the player in the posts. There's a couple buttons for it in the second row. Hit the button and paste in the URL.
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http://picosong.com/JFzr (http://picosong.com/JFzr)
Thanks for posting that, Lignite - sounds solidly traditional and right in your wheelhouse!
https://soundcloud.com/mr-omuck/rt-1
Tremendous re-imagining, OMuck! Lots of nods... Big Sleepy Hambone Gary Patton! Still OMuck at the end of the day, though. Love it!
I wish the vocal was hotter in the mix - you have a great voice.
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Just catching up with these posts after a spell away from computers. Great to hear all these new and distinctive versions.
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I bet when Hambone Willie Newburn recorded his version he didn't expect it to go quite so far and wide as this:
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruRK9V0s32c#)
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Ranie Burnette's "Dough Roller Blues" seems to be "Rolling and Tumbling" under a different title.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7Tu_WGUAkY&feature=youtu.be
Cheers
Pan