Topic: Miller's Breakdown

[banjochris]

Curley Weavers "Sweet Petunia" I wondered into a maze, then the fog came down, it got dark and I got scared  ie got lost on this one.  I was hearing a F note on the 6th string at 19secs and couldn't take it from there.

Weaver snaps the hell out of the open 6th string after his first IV chord lick, but he also mutes it, so it has kind of a weird sound. A very cool, weird sound.
Chris

[Johnm]

Hi all,
It seems as though everyone who wished to respond to the most recent set of puzzlers has done so by now, so I'll post the answers.

For Sam Townsend's "Lily Kimball Blues":
   * His playing position was G position in standard tuning as everyone who responded had it--well done!
   * From :03--:04, Sam Townsend moves from the third fret of the third string to the open second string (minor third to major third).  That crossing of strings to achieve that sound is very characteristic of G position in standard tuning, as Chris noted (though it can also be found in Spanish and DGDGBE tunings, as he noted, too).  The fact that Sam Townsend voices his IV chord that follows with its root in the bass pretty much eliminates Spanish and DGDGBE tunings from the running, leaving only G position in standard tuning.

For Curley Weaver's "Sweet Petunia":
   * His playing position was G position in standard tuning.  I thought this was a fairly tough identification to make.  It's one of those situations where Curley Weaver never hits the low root of the I chord which is just sitting there at the third fret of the sixth string, pretty low-hanging fruit, and I find it tricky sometimes when players omit seemingly obvious roots to hit in the bass.  As with the Sam Townsend song, though, the arrival of the IV chord makes it clear that the song is played in G position in standard tuning rather than in Spanish tuning.
   * I phrased the second question poorly.  What I should have said is "What notes did Curley Weaver strike with his thumb in the bass under the IV chord, at :09 and :11?", the answer to which is the third fret of the fifth string and the open sixth string, which he pops, as Chris noted.
   * What Curley Weaver frets from :11--:13 in the treble is somewhat odd-sounding.  He thumb-brushes 3-2 on the third and second strings twice, with each brush followed by the index picking the open first string, then thumb-brushes 0-0 on the third and second strings.  Try it out, it really is kind of strange.
   * Curley Weaver's treble signature lick from :55--:58 is exactly as Chris had it.  Weaver used this lick in the seventh and eighth and eleventh and twelfth bars of his form.  It starts on the + of beat one with the third fret of the first string.  On 2+ he goes from the open first string to the third fret of the second string.  On 3+ he goes from the third fret of the third string to the open second string.  On 4+ he goes from the third fret of the second string to the open first string.  On beat one of the next measure, he hits the third fret of the first string.  On 2+, he goes from the second fret of the first string to the first fret of the first string, tying that first fret of the first string into beat three of that measure and concluding the run.

For Carolina Slim's "Black Cat Trail":
   * His playing position was D position in Dropped-D tuning.  Like all of you, I initially thought he was playing in E position in standard tuning, and it wasn't until the piece went a little ways that I realized he was doing some things that wouldn't work in E position.
   * The three ascending slid chords that Carolina Slim opens the song with are as Chris described them--taking a C chord fretted X-3-2-0-1-3, and plucking only the fretted strings (omitting the sixth and third strings) sliding the shape up two frets, intact.  This requires some real finesse in the right hand to sound the move cleanly, and Carolina Slim pulls it off with impressive aplomb.
   * Carolina Slim's run from :31--:35 was fretted as follows.  It starts on beat two of the eleventh bar of the form.  On beat two he hits the chordal shot at 5-6-5 on the first three strings (D shape three frets up) to begin a triplet, following that shot with the third fret of the second string going to the first fret of the second string.  On beat three he plays another triplet, going from the second fret of the third string to the first fret of the third string, then to the open third string.  On beat four, he plays another triplet, moving from the third fret of the fourth string to the open fourth string, followed by a slide into the fifth fret of the fifth string.  On 1+ of the twelfth bar, he goes from the open sixth string to the third fret of the second string, fretted out of a C shape moved up two frets.  On beat 2 of the twelfth bar, he plays a triplet in the treble, going from the fifth fret of the first string to the third fret of the second string and back to the fifth fret of the first string, hitting the open sixth string with his thumb on the first and third notes of the triplet. On beat 3, he pinches the open sixth string, the third fret of the second string and the fifth fret of the first string.

I think these Carolina Slim cuts where he's channeling Lightnin' Hopkins are really unusual, in that they are so very derivative of Lightnin', but are at the same time so excitingly and expertly played.  A lot of East Coast players who were roughly contemporaneous with Lightnin' were really influenced by his music--Baby Tate, Pernell Charity, John Dee Holman and of course Carolina Slim (Edward Harris) all show a lot of Lightnin' influence.  Slim stands out, though, in the extent to which he really "got it", what Lightnin' was doing.  It's so unfortunate that Slim died while still a very young man.  Most musicians in vernacular styles start out emulating their heroes, and eventually find their own voices.  Slim wasn't given the luxury of the time to become whom he might have, had he lived a bit longer.  Basically, he was robbed, as is anyone who dies young like that.

Thanks to all who participated, and I think people really did well with some subtle identifications on this set of puzzlers.  I'd like to continue to encourage more folks to participate.  The stakes are so low, really, and you might learn something, certainly more than you do by simply waiting for the answers to be posted.  I hope folks enjoyed the tunes and I'll look for more puzzlers.
All best,
Johnm
 

[EddieD]

sorry for these lengthy run descriptions -- is there somewhere on the site that explains how to enter some tab easily? I've seen people do it but don't know how.
Chris

Chris I usually enter tab when I answer. I type it up in notepad because all the characters are equal size or in microsoft word using the courier new font as all the characters are the same size. To keep the characters all the same size when I post I use the code button which looks like a number sign or hash tag. I just notice there is an option for courier font  when submitting a post which may do the trick as well when entering tab.



E--3-------3-
B--0------0--
G--0-----0---
D--0----0----
A--2---2-----
E--3--3------



I just tested the courier font and yes it works great

[banjochris]

Thanks, Eddie -- I appreciate that a lot!
Chris

[Johnm]

Hi all,
I thought I would post some new puzzlers, and since it has been a while since I've asked only the playing position/tuning of each performance, I thought I would do that this time.  Here are the songs:

The first is "I'm Going Home", from Hammie Nixon and Sleepy John Estes.  Here it is:



What playing position/tuning is the guitar being played in on "Going Home"?

The second song is Pigmeat Pete and Catjuice Charlie's "Do It Right".  Here it is:



What playing position/tuning is being used to play "Do It Right"?

The third song is Bo Jones' "Back Door Blues".  Here it is:



INTRO

Early one morning, I set down in my door
I says, early one morning, I set down in my door
Lord, I was sittin' here, wond'in', "Where in the world can a good man go?"

I hear my rider holl'in', 'way up on the hill
Said, I hear my rider holl'in', 'way up on the hill
Said, I know it's my rider, got a voice like a whip-or-will

SOLO

I'll get your ticket, gon' send you away from here
I'm gon' get your ticket, gon' send you all away from here
Lord, and if you never come back, Lord, I will never care

I'm gon' write my name up on my baby's back door
I'm gonna write my name up on my baby's back door
So she can see my name if she never sees me no more

What playing position/tuning is being used to play "Back Door Blues"?

As always, please use only your ears and guitars to arrive at your answer, and please don't post any answers before 8:00 AM your time on Thursday morning, May 4.  Thanks for participating and I hope you enjoy the songs.

All best,
Johnm

[Prof Scratchy]

I'll say D for the first one; F capoed at the second fret forr the second; and C tuned a half step low for the last one.

[blueshome]

Sleepy John C capoed to D, I'm with the Prof for the others.

[banjochris]

I'll say D for the first one; F capoed at the second fret forr the second; and C tuned a half step low for the last one.

Agree on all these.

[eric]

C position for Bo Jones.

[Johnm]

Hi all,
Any other takers for the Hammie/Sleepy John, Pigmeat Pete/Catjuice Charlie and Bo Jones puzzlers?  Answer one or two of them, or all three.  Come one, come all!
All best,
Johnm

[Old Man Ned]

In agreement with other folks, D for Sleepy John Estes, F for Pigmeat Pete and Catjuice Charlie's "Do It Right and C for Bo Jones

[Johnm]

Hi all,
It appears that everyone who intended to respond to the most recent set of puzzlers has done so by now, so I will post the answers.  As it turned out, the very first response, from Prof Scratchy, had all the playing positions/tunings for the different songs identified correctly.  Well done, Prof!  Here are the identifications for the songs:

For Hammie Nixon's and Sleepy John Estes' recording of "I'm Going Home", the guitar was played in D position in standard tuning.  Though Sleepy John is identified as the guitarist on this recording, I am dubious.  His preferred playing position, by a great margin, in his early recordings was C position in standard tuning, and I'm hard put to remember any songs he played out of D position in standard tuning back then.  Moreover, having seen Sleepy John perform at the stage of his career when this cut was recorded, I didn't see him do anything nearly as active as the guitar playing on this cut.  I wonder if Yank Rachell might have been the guitarist.  In any event, whoever the guitarist was on the cut, it was played out of D position in standard tuning.

For Pigmeat Pete and Catjuice Charlie's "Do It Right", the guitar was played out of F position in standard tuning, and all who responded on the song had the identification right.  All of the songs I know of by this duo were played out of F position.  The two other songs, "On Our Turpentine Farm" and "The Gin Done Done It" can be found elsewhere on this site and in Weeniepedia.

For Bo Jones' "Back Door Blues", the playing position was C position in standard tuning.  I believe the guitarist for this cut and for Bo Jones' other cut, "Leavenworth Prison Blues", may be Carl Davis, who accompanied Texas Alexander on a few recordings (assuming Bo Jones did not accompany himself). 

Thanks to all who participated in the puzzlers and I hope folks enjoyed the songs.  I'll look for more to post soon.

All best,
Johnm

[Johnm]

Hi all,
We have looked at so many songs in this thread over the course of the past two years, and it occurred to me today:  I wonder how many folks have figured out any of the songs that we've discussed in this thread.  I know that Gordon (Joe Paul) figured out Boy Green's "A and B Blues" a couple of years ago.  I'm curious--has anyone else figured out any of the songs in this thread?  In looking at the list, I discovered that I've figured out more of them than I would have thought.  Here are ones I've figured out so far:
   * "Up And Down Bulding the KC Line"--Little Brother
   * "Trouble"--Reese Crenshaw
   * "French Blues"--Frank Evans
   * "Baton Rouge Rag"--Joe Harris
   * "Guitar Blues"--Johnny St. Cyr
   * "Too Many Women Blues"--Willie Lane
   * "Going Where The Monon Crosses The Yellow Dog"--Scrapper Blackwell
   * "Hollandale Blues"--Sam Chatmon
   * "I'm A Crawling Black Snake"--Lightnin' Hopkins
   * "Run Here, Faro"--Myrt Holmes
   * "Pretty Polly"--E. C. Ball
   * "See What You Done Done"--Baby Tate
   * "Just A Note"--Ralph Willis

A couple of these I had figured out before I put them up in the thread.  But knowing what positions/tunings the songs are played in is the most important knowledge if you want to play the songs as they were recorded.  From there on out, it's just a battle of attrition, hanging in there and plugging away until you figure a song out to your own satisfaction.  Try it, you'll like it!
All best,
Johnm
   

[David Kaatz]

I haven't figured out any exactly, but have copped a few licks. I don't even remember which song it was, but there was an A blues with a descending diminished chord turnaround that I have played quite a bit - it also goes from IV7 to iv7 instead of the usual 2 bars of IV7.
The other song I worked on, but not tried to copy exactly is Levester "Big Lucky" Carter - Swing Low, Sweet Chariot. It sounds so cool.
Thanks John for introducing so much music to me, and us.

Dave

[Zoharbareket]

I've *attempted* to figure out a couple or so. Not necessarily with much success, but I did try.
This thread is an absolute Jem,
Thank you John for being a super teacher!!
Zohar

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