Topic: Miller's Breakdown

[Slack]

Fort Oglethorpe!

No kidding!!  I was completely stumped as well!!

[Johnm]

Thanks, guys.  I thought I heard Austin Allen start that place in the lyrics with the word "fort", and so did a Google search--Chickamauga--any fort there?, and right away, Fort Oglethorpe came up.  If my elementary school history serves me well, Oglethorpe founded the Georgia colony.  That's a long time ago, elementary school, that is.  Three versions of "Chattanooga Blues" entered in Weeniepedia today--that's what I call a good day!
All best,
Johnm

[Johnm]

Hi all,
Any takers for the Washboard Walter/John Byrd and Carolina Slim puzzlers?  They're one page back in the thread, at http://weeniecampbell.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=10188.msg96278#msg96278 .  Come one, come all!
All best,
Johnm

[Prof Scratchy]

I'll say that John Byrd is in G standard.
Where did John Byrd play the long run he plays near the end of the first verse, from :27--:30? - Can't make this out at all!
Where did John Byrd fret the ascending and descending runs he plays twice at the beginning of the second verse, from :35--:39? - I think he may be doing most of this on the second string. Something like: 2/0123321001233210 3/0 2/0 3/0

For the Carolina Slim one:
What playing position/tuning did Carolina Slim use to play the song? -E tuned to C
Where did he fret what he plays over his IV chord, from :26--:33? -5/04 4/25b5b2 5/4 4/2
   * Where does Carolina Slim fret the bass run he plays from 1:57--2:02? Dunno!

[Old Man Ned]

 For the Washboard Walter/John Byrd and Carolina Slim puzzlers, on just one listening of each, i'm saying G and E respectively.  Doubt I'll get around to deciphering the runs as I've got to go away with my work for a couple of days, but wanted to at least have a crack at the first parts.

[Johnm]

Hi all,
Any other takers for the Washboard Walter/John Byrd and Carolina Slim puzzlers?  Come one, come all!
All best,
Johnm

[Johnm]

Hi all,
It doesn't appear that anyone is going to be responding to the Washboard Walter/John Byrd and Carolina Slim puzzlers, so I'll post the answers.

For Washboard Walter and John Byrd's "Insurance Man Blues":
   * John Byrd's playing position was G position in standard tuning, as Prof Scratchy and Old Man Ned both had it--well done!
   * John Byrd played his bass run from :27--:30 as follows:  He starts the run on the downbeat of the tenth bar of the first verse, playing a triplet on beat one of that measure going from the open third string to the second fret of the third string and back to the open third string.  On the second beat, he plays another triplet, walking down the third string from the third fret to the second fret to the open third string.  On beat three, he plays a triplet descending the fourth string from the third fret to the second fret to the open fourth string.  On beat four, he plays a triplet on the fifth string, going from the first fret to the open fifth string and then back to the first fret, resolving the run on the downbeat of the eleventh measure by hitting the low I note, the G at the third fret of the sixth string.
   * The runs that John Byrd played from :35--:39 are just as Prof Scratchy had them--well heard!  John Byrd plays an ascending triplet starting on beat four of the twelfth bar of the first verse, ascending the second string chromatically from the open string to the first and second frets, landing on the third fret of the second string on the downbeat of the first beat of the second verse. On the second beat of that measure, he plays a descending chromatic triplet on the second string, going from the third fret to the second and first frets, landing on the open second string on beat three.  On beat four of the first measure, he plays the same ascending triplet he began the passage with, ending up on the third fret of the second string on the downbeat of the second measure.  Beats two and three duplicate what he played on the same beats in the first measure of the verse.  On beat four, he plays a triplet going from the open second string to the first fret of the second string, then returning to the open second string, resolving to the open third string on the downbeat of the third measure.
I certainly wish that John Byrd had been recorded more.  As far as I know, he had only two solo titles under his own name, "Billy Goat Blues" and "Old Timbrook Blues", plus the several tunes he accompanied Washboard Walter on.  He is one of the very strongest 12-string players recorded early on, I think, and his time was really powerful and always spot on.

For Carolina Slim's "Jivin' Woman Blues":
   * His playing position/tuning was D position in dropped-D tuning, tuned low.  He was very much working Lightnin' Hopkins' territory here, as he did on most of his recordings, and by extrapolation, Gabriel Brown, whom I believe influenced Lightnin's approach to playing in dropped-D.
   * For his IV chord, from :26--:33, Carolina Slim begins on a G add 9 chord that just honks, in which he sounds the following strings:  5-X-X-0-3-5.  He hits the sixth string, fifth fret on the downbeat of the fifth bar of the form.  On beats two and three of that measure, he plays triplets in the treble, going from the first to the second string and back in that position while striking the sixth string with his thumb on the beat.  On beat four, he plays a triplet with his thumb, going from the open fourth string to the third fret of the fifth string and back to the open fourth string, resolving to the a bent third fret of the fourth string on the downbeat of the sixth bar, which he sustains for the remainder of that measure.
   * Carolina Slim fingered the bass run he played from 1:57--2:02 as follows:  On the down beat of the tenth bar of the form, he plays a triplet going from the open fourth string to the third fret of the fifth string and back to the open fourth string.  On beat two, he plays a broken triplet, hitting the bent third fret of the fourth string on beat two and the + of beat two, then sliding from there up to the seventh fret of the fourth string on beat three, re-hitting that note on the + of beat three.  On beat four, he goes from the seventh fret of the fourth string to the fifth fret of the fourth string on the + of the beat.  On beat five + he strikes the bent third fret of the fourth string twice.  On beat six, he plays  the same triplet he began the run with, going from the open fourth string to the third fret of the fifth string and returning to the open fourth string, resolving to the open sixth string for the downbeat of the eleventh bar of the form.  I did not realize when I selected this run to identify that Carolina Slim used it to play a 6-beat measure, and it is a tribute to his execution and clarity of conception that he maintains such a smooth flow through it.

Thanks to Prof Scratchy and Old Man Ned for participating.  A question for people who frequent this thread, either as persons who post responses or those who just like to listen to the songs and try to figure them out on their own:  Do any of you ever try to play the runs or passages that I describe in detail?  Please say if you do, because the process of writing out the descriptions is time-consuming, and if no one is doing anything with the descriptions, I would feel less incentive to describe what is being done in such detail.

All best,
Johnm 

[Old Man Ned]

John, I participate in this thread whenever I can, which is more often than not.  I do go over the runs that you described in such detail and am very grateful for the knowledge that you so generously share.  Having said that, I can appreciate that it must take a good deal of effort and would understand if you want to go into less detail. 

[Johnm]

Thanks for your response, Lawrence.  I wouldn't be very enthusiastic about doing the in-depth descriptions of how the passages are played if nobody was trying them out, but if even one person is working them through that makes continuing to do it worthwhile to me.
All best,
Johnm

[Johnm]

Hi all,
I've got a couple of new puzzlers for you.  The first is from a Texas musician, Wright Holmes, doing "Drove From Home Blues".  Thanks to Jeff Peters for making me aware of this musician.  Here is the recording:



Well, I done all I could, and I try to get along wit' you,
You had another man, and I swear I'm through wit' you
You treat me low-down and dirty, mama, baby, that's the way you do

I remember one day , now mama, when you drove me from your door
You had the nerve to tell me, "Wright, I don't want you no more."
Nothing for me to do, baby, Lord, but pack my trunk and go

Now, before I left you, now, mama, you just always raisin' sand (Spoken: Talkin' 'bout the girl you call Rosie!)
Just before I left you now, Rosie, you was always raisin' sand (Spoken: I know what you was puttin' down, baby)
You misunderstood me, always tellin' you'd quit me for another man

But that's all right now, mama, baby, that'll be all right for you
Whoo, that's all right now, mama, ah-ha it'll be all right for you
Way you done poor Wright, Rosie, it's bound to come back on you

You know, I was broke and I was hungry, in my pocket I did not have one dime
You know, I was broke, in my pocket I didn't have one dime
And if you put me down that day, you wouldn't come up to see my no time

At-eet-do-deet-do-deet-doh-doh-doh-doh
Ah-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha

The questions on "Drove From Home Blues" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did Wright Holmes use to play the song?
   * Where did Wright Holmes fret the descending lick he plays from :37--:39?
   * Where did Wright Holmes finger the V chord he plays at 1:00?

The second song is from Snooks Eaglin, "One More Drink".  Don't worry, I'm not going to ask how he plays those runs!  Here is his performance of the song:



INTRO

Tell me, pretty baby, what is wrong with you?
You got me worried, baby, 'cause I don't care what you do
REFRAIN: One more drink, one more drink
One more drink, I'll be on my merry way

Goin' out to a party, have a lot of fun
Going, pretty baby, 'cause you is got the gun, now
REFRAIN: One more drink, one more drink
One more drink, I'll be on my merry way

SOLO

Tell me, pretty baby, what is wrong with you?
You goin' out havin' fun, baby, 'cause you don't know what to do
REFRAIN: One more drink, one more drink
One more drink, I'll be on my merry way
I'll be on my merry way 

The questions on "One More Drink" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did Snooks use to play the song?
   * Where did Snooks finger the IV7 chord he plays from 1:15--1:19?
   * Where did Snooks finger the I7 chord he plays from 1:41--1:42?

Please use only our ears and your guitars to arrive at your answers and please don't post any answers before 8:00 AM your time on Sunday, January 17.  Thanks for participating and I hope you enjoy the songs.

All best,
Johnm

[David Kaatz]

Wright Holmes - Drove From Home Blues
Spanish tuning, key of concert A, so probably capoed up 2 frets.
Descending lick is played on the bottom 4 strings, but the 5th is muted by the fretting
fingers: 3x32, 2x20 0000.
Something like this:
D:     |          555
B:     |
G: 00|20000 0 0
D: 00|30200 0 0
G: 00|x0x00 0 0
D: 00|30200 0 0

V chord is fretted on the 4th thru 1st string like this: 3210

Snooks - One More Drink
Standard tuning, G position
IV7 chord played at fret 5 and 6 with an A7 position on the top 4 strings: 4445.
I7 chord played at fret 7, like so: 7x576x.

Dave

[One-Eyed Ross]

Only worked on the Snooks song, One More Drink

G, std tuning

IV7 chord, I think is an A7 shape played at 5th fret (C7 chord).  [amending this to say it should more properly be 3rd fret, since the root note {C} would be at the 3rd fret of the 5th string.  I was thinking solely of the treble strings, and forget that the chord position is based on the root note in the base.  Duh...brain fart while watching football.]

The I7 chord - I think it's a D7 shape played at the 6th fret....

[blueshome]

Wright Holmes Spanish
Without a guitar can't figure out more
Snooks felt like G but something not quite right

[Old Man Ned]

I was going with A standard for the Wright Holmes tune but have seen a number of posts suggesting 'Spanish tuning" so will check this out if I have time.  I had trouble getting my ears around his 'fuzzy' guitar sound on this one.

I spent more time on the Snooks Eaglin tune as he's one of my all time favourites.  I think G standard, the IV7 chord is around the A7 position at the 3rd fret.  The I7 chord I can't decide between Davek's suggestion, which was my first thought and
X
3
4
3
X
3
which was my second thought.

[banjochris]

Pretty sure the Wright Holmes is in A standard, not Spanish. The sound of the guitar is very "tight" for lack of a better word; doesn't sound like a lot of open strings being used to me.

You can hear him slide into the long A position right at the beginning of the piece as he hits the first I chord. The descending lick is played on the fourth string while he's holding the full A chord. Sometimes its fifth fret then fourth fret, others its fourth fret then third fret, resolving back to the E at the second fret that's part of the A chord.

The V chord is usually a good giveaway between Spanish and A, because that first position D7 in Spanish sounds quite a bit different than a first position E7 in A. At the 1:00 mark it sounds like he's playing either a regular first position E7 or just implying it by playing the D note at the third fret of the second string and playing the E bass along with it. But he bends that VII note, which you pretty much never hear in a first position D7 chord in Spanish.
Chris