Topic: Miller's Breakdown

[Johnm]

Hi all,
I have a couple of new puzzlers for those of you who are interested.  I realized it has been a while since we've done any Robert Pete Williams songs, so here are a couple that are straight playing position/tuning questions, on "High As I Want To Be" and "Poor Bob's Blues".  Here is "High As I Want To Be":



Ooooo-eeee,
I'm as high as I want to be
Yes, darlin', I'm high as I wanta be

Would you run here, baby, set down on my knee?
Run here, woman, set down on my knee
I got somethin' to tell you, darlin', make the hair rise on your ---

What playing position/tuning did Robert Pete Williams use to play "High As I Want To Be"?

Here is "Poor Bob's Blues":



Lord, look-a-here, baby
Oh, darlin', what you want poor Bob to do?
Oh, babe, what you want poor Bob to do?
You must want me, baby, Lord, well, to lay down and die for --

If you ever been down, baby, you know just how it is, poor
If you ever been down, woman, know how it is to be

Wonder why, woman, wanta treat me this way
Ooh, wonder why, baby, you wanta treat me this way

I'm worried, woman, I ain't got no place to go

Let's go and have some fun, baby, we gotta ball all night long
Let's go out and have some fun, darlin', We got ball 'til the break of day

If the river was wine, me and my baby be drunk all the time

What playing position/tuning did Robert Pete Williams use to play "Poor Bob's Blues"?

One more puzzler is Rev. RobertWilkins' version of "Just A Closer Walk With Thee".  Here is his performance of the song:



The questions for "Just A Closer Walk With Thee" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did Rev. Wilkins use to play the song?
   * What is the chord progression of the song as he played it?

Please use only your ears and your guitars to arrive at your answers, and please don't post any answers before 8:00 AM your time on Sunday morning, October 25.  Thanks for participating and I hope you enjoy the songs.

All best,
Johnm 

[Lastfirstface]

High as I Want To Be - Vestapol tuned down around C

Poor Bob's Blues - Spanish somewhere around Bb (Edit: just tried this again in G standard and liked the fingering, so I'm a bit lost on this one)

Just A Closer Walk With Thee- G Standard

Progression:

|  G  |   G  |  F  |  F  |  D  |  D  |  G  |  G  |
|  C  |   C  |  C  |  C  |  G  |  G  | G  |  G  |

[David Kaatz]

High As I Want to Be - Robert Pete Williams
Vestapol tuning, about a step flat to key of C.
I'm very unsure of this. It might be in Drop D.

Poor Bob's Blues - RP Williams
Standard tuning, key of Am, played in first position at the nut.

Just a closer Walk - Rev Wilkins
Standard tuning, in F# at the 2nd fret, closed position for all chords except the E.

Chord Progression
F# F# E E
C# C# F# F#
B  B  F# F# F# F#

I just read Lastfirstface's answer, and G seems a lot more likely than F#.

Dave

[One-Eyed Ross]

OK, so for Poor Boy's Blues....  To me, and I admit to maybe not hearing this right, it seems to live (assuming the guitar is tuned to standard) between the 6th and 8th frets - at least that's where I find the notes.  This would put it in B flat, but I don't know if he is playing up the neck or using a capo. 

[ScottN]

My guesses:
High As I Want To Be - E
Poor Bob's Blues - A
Just A Closer Walk With Thee - I agree with Lastfirstface with G

Those Robert Pete Williams ones are tough.  Love his playing and groove though!

Thanks,
           Scott

[Prof Scratchy]

I'm going to say:
High As I Want To Be - D standard
Poor Bob's Blues - Am
Just A Closer Walk With Thee - C standard tuned low

[Johnm]

Hi all,
Any other takers for the Robert Pete Williams and Robert Wilkins puzzlers?  Come one, come all!
All best,
Johnm

[banjochris]

Agree with Prof Scratchy --
High As I Want to Be -- D standard
(RPW plays in Dm like this sometimes too, just leans on the F note a little more, which gives a great sound when he goes to that big first position open G chord to play a boogie line)

Poor Bob's Blues - Am

Just a Closer Walk with Thee is G as Lastfirstface had it -- those with sharp memories might remember that John set out the chord changes of this version a couple of years ago!
Chris

[Johnm]

Hi all,
I'm going to assume that everyone who wished to respond to the most recent set of puzzlers has done so by now, so here are the answers.:

For Robert Pete Williams' "High As I Want To Be", his playing position was Dropped-D tuning, playing in D position, as Dave had it in his back-up choice.  You can hear Robert Pete hit the low D note on the open sixth string at :11, :24 and at various other places in the course of the rendition.
For Robert Pete Williams' "Poor Bob's Blues", his playing position was A/Aminor in standard tuning, as Dave, Scott, Prof Scratchy and Chris had it--well done!  He has a beautifully choppy signature lick on this one, sounding as though he picked it thumb-index, thumb-index, thumb in the right hand, going from the third fret of the first string to the open first string, then the third fret of the second string to the first fret of the second string, ending up at the second fret of the third string.  It falls in the pulse starting on beat 2, 2+3+4.
Has there ever been a Country Blues player to equal Robert Pete Williams for funkiness of rhythm and touch when he's working in this sound?  I don't think so!
For Robert Wilkins' version of "Just A Closer Walk With Thee", Lastfirstface had both the playing position/tuning, G position in standard tuning and the progression, spot on--well done!

Just to reiterate something discussed a couple of times earlier in the thread, the pitch at which a rendition sounds is of little or no significance in determining the playing position/tuning that is used to play a piece.  Moreover, a playing position/tuning has a unique combination of identifying aural characteristics, based on what it makes available for the player, that holds true for that playing position/tuning no matter what key it sounds in.  Just as an example of how the pitch a rendition sounds in does not count for much in making an identification of playing position/tuning, consider a song sounding in Bb.  Well, it could be Papa Charlie Jackson or Bobby Leecan playing in Bb position in standard tuning . . . or it could be Arthur Crudup playing in cross-note, capoed to the sixth fret . . . or it could be Clifford Gibson playing in Spanish tuning capoed to the third fret . . . or it could be Charley Jordan playing in E position in standard tuning capoed to the sixth fret . . . or it could be Blind Boy Fuller playing in A position in standard tuning tuned a half-step high.  I think you see what I'm getting at--what's important is not identifying the key of Bb the rendition might sound in, but rather, the Bb position, or cross-note, or Spanish, or E position, or A position, and learning the sound characteristics of those different positions and tunings.

Thanks for your participation and I hope you enjoyed the songs.

All best,
Johnm

   

[Johnm]

Hi all,
I have a couple of new puzzlers for you.  The first is Pink Anderson's rendition of the old hymn, "I Will Fly Away".  Here is Pink's performance:



INTRO

Some glad morning, when this weary life is over, I will fly away
Now, when I die, hallelujah, bye and bye, I will fly away, let me tell you

REFRAIN: I will fly away, yes, I will fly away
Oh, when I die, hallelujah, bye and bye, I will fly away

Just a few more worried days and then, I will fly away
Unto a happy world, where joy will never end, I will fly away, let me tell you

REFRAIN: I will fly away, oh yes, I will fly away
Oh, when I die, hallelujah, bye and bye, I will fly away, Church and members,

REFRAIN: I will fly away, oh yes, I will fly away
Oh, when I die, hallelujah, bye and bye, I will fly away

Some glad morning, when this worried life is over, I will fly away
Oh, like a bird when those prison bars is broken, I will fly away, everybody now,

REFRAIN: I will fly away, oh yes, I will fly away
Now, when I die, hallelujah, bye and bye, I will fly away
 
The questions on "I'll Fly Away" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did Pink use to play the song?
   * Where does he fret the run he plays from :04--:06?
   * Where does he fret the fill he plays from :15--:17?
   * How does he finger the chord he plays from 1:04--1:05 and what is the chord?

The second song is J. T. Smith's "Hoppin' Toad Frog".  Here is his performance of the song:



The questions on "Hoppin' Toad Frog" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did J. T. Smith use to play the song?
   * Where does he fret the opening run, from :00--:05?
   * Where does J. T. Smith fret his outro, from 2:45--2:48?

Please use only your ears and instruments to arrive at your answers, and please don't post any answers before 8:00 AM your time on Saturday, October 31.  Thanks for your participation and I hope you enjoy the songs.
All best,
Johnm

[papa john pio]

Here?s my two cents. Smith?s ?Hoppin Toad Frog? is played in the G positions, maybe half step up.
I recognize it by the riff between the verses, it?s the typical sound in the G position.  From 00 to 05 he start plays a long slide from first or second fret to the five fret of the 5th string alternating with the 4th string played free in counterpoint two times and then picking that only 5th string three times sliding down in the last. Then slide up the same way to the fifth fret of the 4th string played in counter point with the 3rd string free, again two times  and the last three times the 4th string alone sliding down. I thing that on the 5th and 4th  strings run, he uses always the thumb and maybe on the 4th and 3rd string run he uses the index to pick the 3rd string. After that he close the first part of the intro picking the 4th string free and then fourth, third and second fret on the 5th string, closing with third fret 6th string. The outro start with the 4th string at the second fret with the thumb and the two times the 1st, 2nd and 3rd string free in unison with the finger, then again the 4th string at the second and fast to the first fret, than picking two times in unison 1st at third fret and 2nd and 3rd strings free, picks again the 4th a the first and then the 6th at the third, finally the two brushes in G chord upward then downward.
I?m sorry I have no time to study "I will Fly Away" but I think is played in the E position tuned a bit low.
Cheers.

[Prof Scratchy]

For the Pink Anderson one I'm going to say E standard tuned low.

0:4 to 0:6 = 5/2>4; 4/0.>1>2>E chord hammering on to first fret of third string

15--:17 = 5/0>3>h4; 4/2>5>4>2;5/4

Turnaround chord =22020x

For the JT Smith one I'm going to say A standard - but that's as far as I've got. I'm basing that on the Blind Lemon chords he uses 2/3 of the way through.

[David Kaatz]

Pink Anderson I'll Fly Away
Drop D tuning, key of D
From :04-:06 is fretted on the 5th string, starting open, hammer to 3rd fret, then open,
hammer again to 3rd fret, then 4th fret, then open 4th string.

From :15-:17, play the down beat on 5th fret, 6th string, then play 1st fret 5th string
and hammer on to the 2nd fret. Then open 4th for a beat, 3rd fret 4th string for a beat,
open 4th string for a beat, and 2nd fret 5th string for a beat.

The chord from 1:04-1:05 is fingered at open 5th string, 3rd fret 4th string, 2nd fret
3rd string and 2nd fret 2nd string. Play only the inside four strings. It would be named
an A#5. A dominant 7 tone is implied but not present.


Funny Papa Smith Hoppin' Toad Frog
Standard tuning, G position. Capo first fret.

From :00-:05, strike and slide up from 2nd to the 5th fret on the 5th string on the down
beat, then play a pickup to the 2nd beat on the open 4th string. The second beat, play a
triplet alternating between the 5th fret 5th string and open 4th string. 3rd beat, play
a whole note on the on the open 4th string. 4th beat, play an 8th note on the 5th fret,
5th string, sliding down as the note decays. 8th note pickup to 2nd measure, strike and
slide from 2nd to 5th fret on the 4th string. Play two triplets alternating between the
open 3rd string and 5th fret 4th string, then a triplet starting at 2nd fret, 4th
string, then open 4th string, then 3rd fret 5th string. Finish with playing an 8th note
on the 2nd fret, 5th string, then 3rd fret 6th string on the 'and' of that beat.

The outro starts with a chord fingered on 2nd fret 4th string and the open 3rd, 2nd, and
1st strings. Next he drops the 2nd fret to the 1st fret 4th string, with the open 3rd
and 2nd, and frets the 3rd fret 1st string. Finish with open 4th, 3rd and 2nd strings
while still holding the 3rd fret 1st string. Cool!

Dave

[Old Man Ned]

Pink Anderson's 'Fly Away' I keep coming back to D and I'm thinking it's dropped D as I'm hearing a very 'fat' sounding G note when played on the top string which is making me think it's dropped from E to D, if that makes any sense.

Funny Papa Smith's 'Hoppin Toad Frog' I was going with A standard, tuned a a step low.  Then having seen Davek's post 'mI now thinking G a step high as the bit's I'm picking out seem to sit better with G.  Yeah, was going to so A standard but am changing to G standard.  Geez.......tricky business this init..and I used to be so decisive...usually wrong, but at least decisive :-)

[One-Eyed Ross]

I think Pink Anderson played in E position...not sure about the fingering of the runs or fills, but pretty convinced it's in E...but I've been wrong before.

Papa Smith's Hopping Toad Frog sounds so much like G to me, I'm going to call it G, standard tuning...I was almost thinking Spanish, but the bass notes don't work out right for that....so standard tuning.