Topic: Miller's Breakdown

[Johnm]

Your point about Crudup and other Country blues musicians (Sam Collins, Dr. Ross, Robert Pete Williams?) singing to a V7 chord that they are not playing is an interesting one, Slack.  And you're right that Crudup, and I know Robert Pete Williams did this too, would sometimes play only the root of the V chord but no other chord tones that would state the chord more explicitly.  I wonder if in such instances, our expectations sort of fill in the V7 chord and make us hear what they're singing as though it is acknowledging the un-played V7 chord?  It's kind of operating in the realm of the psychology of music.  When you think of a blues scale and how it works over the I, IV and V chords, it makes sense that a I chord would actually suffice for the entire progression.  Certainly some Hill Country players like R .L. Burnside and Junior Kimbrough operated that way on occasion.  I think where Crudup sounds really special is in the way he mashes up the elements of his I and IV7 chords.  That, and just being such a wonderful singer.
All best,
Johnm   

[Johnm]

Hi all,
I realized that it has been a while since we had some puzzlers which only involved identifying the playing position/tuning for a few songs, and since the puzzlers have been somewhat involved and difficult lately, I thought that might be a welcome change.  And in terms of figuring things out by ear, getting the playing position/tuning right is more than half the battle; it's the most important step.

The first puzzler is Tarheel Slim's (Alden Bunn's) "180 Days", from his Trix album.  Here it is:



NOTE:  The lyrics for "180 Days" can be found at:  http://weeniecampbell.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=8337.0 .

What playing position/tuning did Tarheel Slim use to play "180 Days", and what is it about the sound of the piece that influenced your choice?

The second puzzler is Frank Hovington's "90 Going North".  Here it is:



What playing position/tuning did Frank Hovington use to play "90 Going North" and what is it about the sound of the piece that influenced your choice?

The third puzzler is Kid Cole's "Hey Hey Mama Blues".  Here it is:



A-don't cry after who-me, sweet mama, when I'm gone
A-don't cry after who-me, Lordy, sweet mama, when I'm gone
A-don't cry after who-me, sweet mama, when I'm gone
Gonna miss your daddy rollin' in your arms

Oh, it's a rock in the mountains, and your casket's on the sea
Oh, it's a rock in the mountains, pretty mam', your casket's on the sea
Oh, it's a rock in the mountains, and your casket's on the sea
I ain't got nobody to love and care for me

And it's hey, little mama, and it's something's goin' on wrong
And it's hey, hey little mama, pretty mama, something's goin' on wrong
And it's hey, hey little mama, and it's something's a-goin' on wrong
I can tell you done quit me, a-by you stayed so long

And it's when I die, lay a deck of cards on my grave
And it's when I die, a-lay deck of cards on my grave
And it's when I die, a-lay deck of cards on my grave
And it's no more brownskins, Cincinnati, that I crave

And I'm goin' away, a-pretty mama, cryin' it won't be long
And I'm goin' away, pretty mama, cryin' it won't be long
And I'm goin' away, pretty mamam, cryin' it won't be long
Bet your typewriter, mama, a-type and find days I'm gone

I woke up this morning, a-with the same thing on my mind
I woke up this mornin', pretty mama, same thing on my mind
I woke up this morning with the same thing on my mind
Had a heart full of misery, mama, 'nough screamin' and cryin'

And it's hmmm, hmm hmm, and it's something a-goin' on wrong
And it's hmm, hmm, hmm, and it's something's goin' on wrong
And it's hmm, hmm, hmm, and it's something's goin' on wrong
I can tell you was quittin' me, baby, but you quit me wrong

Gonna place my left leg, a-sweet mama, up on your wall
Gonna place my left leg, pretty mama, up on your wall
I'm gon' place my left leg, and it's, honey, up on your wall
And you know by that, pretty mama, 'tain't makin' no stall

Edited 9/28 to pick up correction from Slack
 
What playing position/tuning did Kid Cole use to play "Hey Hey Mama Blues", and what is it about the sound of the piece that influenced your choice?

Please use only your ears and instruments to arrive at your answers and please don't post any answers before 8:00 AM your time on Friday, September 25.  Thanks for participating and I hope you enjoy the songs.
All best,
Johnm

[Old Man Ned]

Tarheel Slim's (Alden Bunn's) "180 Days":
I'm hearing E, standard tuning, about a half step low.  This one took me the longest, and I was originally thinking A, but listening to the intro, I was coming around to E. I'm hearing in the first 3 seconds, the run ending on the first fret 3rd string.  The opening 4 bars also pushed me go for E as I'm hearing the wee run through 17:19 secs out of E.

Frank Hovington's "90 Going North"
D out of Dropped D.  The alternating base at the start got me thinking Vestapol or Dropped D, but throughout I'm hearing the G and A chords as the IV & V chords.  Between 0:03 - 0:07 I'm hearing played out of the D shape at the 2nd fret.

Kid Cole's "Hey Hey Mama Blues".
I'm hearing G, standard about a half step low.  This is solely based on the first 3 secs where I'm hearing the G, D, B, G notes played on the 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th strings respectively. 

[ScottN]

My guesses:

180 Days is in Vestapol - based on the presence of the low D 6th string throughout such as when he goes to the IV chord. Also, the train whistle lick at 1st string fret 7 and 2nd string fret 8 around 1:56 against the low D.  I really love the trill opening lick in this song.

90 Going North - I'll agree with Old Man Ned that it is in Drop D.  The low D bass work stands out. There is also a slide into the V chord A at around 1:14 that is distinctive. Also, the train whistle lick at 1st string fret 5 and second string fret 6 against the low D string. Finally the bass walk into the IV chord G in several places reminds me of Big Road Blues and is indicative of Drop D.

Hey Hey Mama Blues - I don't have a good guess at this one (apparently without a train whistle I'm lost...) but think I'll agree with Old Man Ned with it being in G. All the activity in the bass makes me think that it lays out well under the hand in G, C or F. The best option of those sounds like G to me as it sounds like it goes from G to a IV chord C but I could be way off on this. I'm dying to hear what clues other people are using to get this one.

Thanks,
           Scott

[One-Eyed Ross]

180 Days - Wow.  I want to say this is in E standard tunings.  To explain why - It just "feels" right that way.  But I readily accept I could be wrong, and hope wiser heads hear it better.  It's a great find, John!

90 Going North - Dropped D all the way.  That sound is so distinctive....love it.

Hey Hey Mama - G standard works for me...has a folksy sound to it that just lays right under the hand in G.

[frankie]

What playing position/tuning did Tarheel Slim use to play "180 Days", and what is it about the sound of the piece that influenced your choice?

I agree with ScottN - the lack of a root in the IV chord, the absence of any hammer-on from the minor to major 3rd on the third string and the characteristic sound of the V7 chord combine to make vestapol the right identification.

What playing position/tuning did Frank Hovington use to play "90 Going North" and what is it about the sound of the piece that influenced your choice?

I agree with Old Man Ned on drop-D. The strong octave, prevalence of stock licks using a D-shape in first position and moved up three frets, the rootless IV chord and the sound of the A position V chord all make this the right identification.

What playing position/tuning did Kid Cole use to play "Hey Hey Mama Blues", and what is it about the sound of the piece that influenced your choice?

ScottN is correct in that "it lays out well under the hand in G, C or F" but the C7 shape as the V7 chord, the easy major sound of the bass runs and the circumspect sounding IV chord (although it does have a root, everything above it is a little muddy sounding) all combine to make standard tuning, F position the correct identification.

[Johnm]

Hi all,
Any other takers for the Tarheel Slim, Frank Hovington and Kid Cole puzzlers?  Come one, come all!
All best,
Johnm

[Prof Scratchy]

What frankie said!

[Gumbo]

Hmm - probably what Frankie said but here's what I have:

Tarheel Slim I'm still working out - not standard anyway and pitched low like the others.

Frank Hovington is in Vestapol key of D which jumps out at me now after getting into the recent Kokomo Arnold track. I didn't far enough in to contribute cause of being thoroughly distracted  by That'll be the way - Robert Wilkins, but it feels great to playing in a different tuning for a change.
Thank you for the inspiration, Johnm!

Kid Cole sounds like standard G position pitched a half step low sounding in F#

[Johnm]

Hi all,
I think that everyone who intended to respond to the Tarheel Slim, Frank Hovington and Kid Cole puzzlers has done so by now, so I'll post the answers.  Thanks to all who participated.

For Tarheel Slim's "180 Days":
   * His playing position/tuning was Vestapol, as Scott N, Frank and Prof Scratchy had it.  Well done, guys!  As Frank noted in his response, the IV chord, which is always voiced by Slim with its 3rd as its lowest voice is the characteristic sound of a IV chord in Vestapol at the base of the neck.  It is most often fingered 0-2-0-1-0-0, though the second string can be fretted at the second fret like the fifth string, too.  To get the same sound in E position in standard tuning, you'd have to finger the IV chord 0-4-2-2-0-0--not an impossible fingering, but certainly an awkward one.  The V7 chord has a characteristic "open" sound, due to its lacking a third.  It is fingered X-0-1-2-0-0, though the first string can be voiced at the second fret like the fourth string, too.  To get the same sound in E position in standard tuning, you'd have to finger the V7 chord X-2-4-2-0-0, which like the IV chord, is not impossible, but is certainly non-intuitive and doesn't sit easily in the left hand.
Tarheel Slim has a particularly nice and distinctive walk-down that he plays at the end of each verse which he gets by starting at the third fret of the fifth and third strings and walking down progressively to the second and first frets on those strings, ending up with those two strings open.  Try it out, it sounds great, and I've not heard other players in Vestapol do that.  I love Slim's beautifully relaxed time, and boy, could he sing!  This tune merits being picked up and played and sung by other people, it seems to me.

For Frank Hovington's "90 Going North":
   * Playing position/tuning was D in dropped-D tuning, as Old Man Ned and almost everyone else had it.  A number of sound characteristics give that playing position and tuning away.  In the opening phrase, in the I chord at the base of the neck, everything is easily accessible from a conventionally fingered D chord.  Later, when the song goes from its IV chord to its V7 chord, the IV chord is voiced with its 3rd in the bass and its root on the first string, easy enough to finger in dropped-D: X-2-0-0-3-3, but really awkward in Vestapol: X-2-0-1-3-5.  The V7 that the chord resolves into is the most commonly fingered X-0-2-2-2-3 one.  I sure wish Frank Hovington had been recorded more.

For Kid Cole's "Hey Hey Mama Blues":
   * Playing position was F position in standard tuning, as Frank and Prof Scratchy had it--well done!  F has a characteristic "chunky" sound, by virtue of being an entirely closed position.  Kid Cole makes great use of a descending bass line that he can finger easily out of the F chord by going from the third fret of the fourth string to the open fourth string, then to the third fret of the fifth string followed by the open fifth string, winding up on the first fret of the sixth string. Give it a try, it sits so naturally.  It seems like he almost always returns to his I chord from the root of his IV chord by lowering his bass one half-step, to the third of the I chord.  It is kind of an odd sound, but when you consider that in F the root of his IV chord, Bb, is at the first fret of the fifth string, and the open fifth string is the third of the I chord, F, it all makes sense, particularly in terms of how the hand is used.
Kid Cole seems to have been part of a little node of Cincinnati blues players, with Bob Coleman (if Kid and Bob were two different people) who played in F position a fair amount, sort of like William Moore and Luke Jordan in Virginia.
Thanks to all who participated, and I hope you enjoyed the tunes.  I'll try to find some more puzzlers soon.
All best,
Johnm     

[One-Eyed Ross]

In 180 days, having difficulty hearing the lyrics for the third verse....Not sure I have it right.  Any help appreciated.

I'm on the chain gang doing 180 days
I'm on the chain gang doing 180 days
The girl I love just wouldn't quit her cheatin' ways

She was runnin' runnin' around with Tom Dick and Harry
She was runnin' runnin' around with Tom Dick and Harry
I caught up with her the night before the day we were to marry

<Guitar break>

I tried to end up end up all her low down cheatin ways
I tried to end up end up all her low down cheatin ways
The judge said "Go home son, you'll be home in 180 days"

[Johnm]

Yes, you have it right, Ross, thanks.  I remembered after I posted this puzzler that I actually posted this song on the Country Blues Lyrics board a few years ago.  I sure like it, and I think it's really cool the way Tarheel Slim's voice has two different tones (at least), depending on what range he's singing.
All best,
Johnm

[Johnm]

Hi all,
I've been transcribing the lyrics to Kid Cole's "Hey Hey Mama Blues", from the most recent set of puzzlers at:  http://weeniecampbell.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=10188.msg95055#msg95055 , and I have a question about his last verse that I'd very much appreciate some help with.  He sounds like he is singing "I'm gonna place my level-ee,  pretty mama, up on your wall".  He uses the word (or what sounds like) "level-ee" three times.  Does anyone either hear something different or see some way of making sense of "level-ee"?  I thought he might be talking about the tool, a level, but it's hard to see how that makes any sense at all with his tagline.  Thanks for any assistance with this.  I think I have the sound right, but it would be nice if it made a bit of sense.
All best,
Johnm

[One-Eyed Ross]

To me it sounds like "level-ay" or "level-ee"....and I'm thinking he is talking about a level, since the tag line takes about "ain't making no stall"...how or why carpentry fits into the grand scheme of the song is one of those poetic license things, I guess.

[Johnm]

Hi Ross,
Thanks for your thoughts and listening.  I think I will stick with "level-ee" since it sounds like what he's singing, and as you say, maybe he just means since he's using a level, he's not messing around, he means business.  Thanks for the help.
All best,
Johnm