Topic: Big Bill Broonzy's Guitar Style--Queries and Tips

[Jeff in Montana]

Hello all,

Hey, I'm trying to figure out Big Bill's rendition of "Frankie and Johnnie".? I've always liked this simple blues ballad and I like the way he uses a moving/walking/sliding bass line in his version.? Seems like a pretty easy song to play and I thought it would be nice to try an easy one for once!? Even if I do have to figure it out myself as I don't have his exact tab, but, I do have several other versions with the chords - they are all in key of "A".? That would be well and good, but I don't think he is playing it in the key of A and I'm lookin' for second opinions.? I think it is in D - in fact, sounds like he is barring a D chord as the I chord of the that tune and then playing around with walks to G, and/or A7 and back to D.? Not a big deal, just starting to play around with this tune and thought I throw this out there to see if anyone if famaliar with it or knows.? Thanks.?

[Johnm]

Hi Jeff,
Welcome to Weenie Campbell!  I don't know if I have the same Broonzy version of "Frankie And Johnny" that you have, mine is from "Trouble In Mind" on Smithsonian/Folkways, but in any case, the version I have is played out of D, standard tuning, just as you had surmised.  As the song begins, he is wrapping his thumb to get the second fret of the sixth string and "boom-changing" between that note and the open fourth string in D.  Best of luck with it--you are on the right track.
All best,
Johnm

[dave stott]

Has anyone ever seen a tab for  Big Bill Broonzy's Trouble in mind??

I can not figure out the chords he is playing at all...

thanks for the help in advance...


Dave

[Johnm]

Hi Dave,
I don't know if you are talking about the version on the Smithsonian/Folkways release, "Trouble In Mind", but Big Bill played that one in G, standard tuning.  He does his G either barred at the third fret like an E chord moved up three frets, or does a wrapped thumb version like an F chord moved up two frets.  In the second bar of the song, he adds the seventh, located at the sixth fret of the second string, fretting it with his little finger.  He then resolves to a C chord, played by barring the second, third and fourth strings at the 5th fret; he holds the C for two bars.   He returns to the G chord he began the song in for one bar, and then goes to a D7 fingered like a C7 moved up two frets, with the sixth string fretted in lieu of the fifth string.  He resolves it back to his G position, playing a treble run you can figure out by ear, and then turns it around, returning to resolving to the D7 again for the second half of the eighth bar.  good luck with this.
All best,
Johnm

[reuellis]

I am currently working on Big Bill Broonzy's version of "Bill Bailey."  I am doing fine figuring out the melody notes but his bass is driving me crazy!  It seems monotone in some instances thrown in with some alternating and then no bass notes---and of course he is beating the hell out of it!  Any advice or suggestions.  I am currently trying to figure out how to do some basic recording and when I do I will try to post what I have so far.  Thanks!

[Mr.OMuck]

If you try a direct analytic frontal assault it will be very difficult. Try tapping your feet, getting a groove going and just kinda feel it.
Fake it with your best approximation and eventually it will start happening. Thats my method anyway.

[uncle bud]

Agree with O'Muck, who plays a mean Broonzy as I recall. While I don't play Bill Bailey, in the Broonzy material I've fooled around with that has this style bass, I got much better when I just started thumping away without thinking about it too much. Once you start getting the feel, then you can think about it if you want.

[Pan]

Double agreeing here with Andrew, that Mr. O'Muck is playing some mean Broonzy!

What has always floored me, is  Broonzy's ability to play a brushed thumb "rhythm guitar part" against his top string melodies. I think he just got better and better with that, even in his later years, which is even more unbelievable. At best he sounds like Freddie Green playing the rhythm guitar, and Lonnie Johnson soloing on top of it!!!

I play Bill Bailey, but since I'm not that good with that palm muted rhythm guitar part , I have substituted with a 3-string alternating sort of simplified "stride" bassline, which kind of works, but is not the "real thing".

[Mr.OMuck]

Double agreeing here with Andrew, that Mr. O'Muck is playing some mean Broonzy!

Me Muddah thanks yuh, Me Fadah thanks yuh and I thanks ya!

[uncle bud]

There's a bit of a parallel here in approach, if not sound, when playing Leadbelly. Many of Leadbelly's bass string parts are sort of random, hitting open strings, thumping away on muted strings that don't necessarily form part of the standard chord in root position etc. It's about the rhythm more than the tonality in such tunes, as weenie member Frankie has pointed out elsewhere. I think there's more of the standard tonality in Broonzy, whether it's the root or 5th or whatever, but it's still kind of random, and the trick is to go for the feel more than the exact order of notes. As OMuck says above, getting too analytical will impede your progress rather than move you forward.

My caveat here is I say this as somewhat of a Broonzy-playing newbie. While I've fooled around with some things like Long Tall Mama and Saturday Night Rub for years, I'm not an expert by any stretch.

[deltaslim]

When I encounter these artist idiosyncracies, I make a decision to adopt what make sense and sounds better to me, especially if those 'tweaks' better follow 'the system', instead of breaking it.  I get to 'learn' the song quicker and perform it with more confidence.

[dave stott]

Mr O'muck plays a Mean Big Bill Broonzy indeed.

I can play a few of the Big Bill's tunes in my own fashion, but I have yet to master that double bass thumb action, let alone the volume on those bass notes.

heck, I'd have a bloody thumb halfway through the song, if I tried.

An instructor told me once that he felt that Big Bill and other players were primarily concerned about volume during their houseparty playing hay-day....

What notes were actually played on the guitar weren't really important, they had to keep that beat going for the dancin folks.

it was't until 78RPM recordings became popular that the melody notes started to become important to them.

Don't know if it is true or not, but it may explain why Big Bills bass is so awesome.

Dave

[Mr.OMuck]

Thanks for the compliment. Btw, no need for bloody thumbs,  Big Bill wore a Thumbpick!

[dave stott]

Are you sure that he used thumb picks?

my only guide on that has been the old Pete Seeger picnic films and I don't recall seeing Bill use thumb picks...

Dave

[Mr.OMuck]

I seem to recall seeing a film clip with a thumbpick.. I could be wrong however.