Topic: Tuning Low: Still common?

[frailer24]

I have been keeping my main guitar tuned to a C#, or one and one-half steps low, for tone preferences. Am I the only one who keeps a dedicated box like this? I know a good deal of players did this back in the day (e.g Dan Sane on nearly every recorded performance), but is it considered uncommon now? Thanks.

[frailer24]

And before I forget, that's standard tuning.

[StoogeKebab]

Certainly not many people out my way south of Sydney (aside from in the Metal scene, as I will explain) seem to keep a low tuned guitar. I recently played a festival where I was quizzed on my tuning by quite a few people (I keep a 12 String tuned at C Standard) as whenever I accompanied someone I would capo at the fourth fret, but would play without it alone. It was disappointing to see how many people responded "Is that a musician?" or something to that effect when I told them that the heavy strings and low tuning were to sound like Lead Belly.

Buying strings is a nightmare, I spent $53 on new strings for the aforementioned festival and buy them from one of three music shops near where I am. Two staff members between the 10+ that I would have bought strings off had sold strings that heavy to a musician, and only one of those could help me with tuning low, the rest would only offer to set up the guitar at one step below standard (with stock standard medium strings) for an additional fee.

One of these aforementioned music shop staff sold heavy strings to a regular customer that plays with them, tuned low, for heavy metal music (this musician's father by sheer coincidence used to work with mine) and told me that internationally, where he played (Scandinavian countries IIRC), low tunings seem to be popular with the Metal scene, but wasn't clear on whether they were variations of Standard or not.

The other store staff member told me the only person he knew that was as insistent on heavy strings as I was was Gwyn Ashton when he was my age (late 1970s-early 1980s I'd assume). That would have been to keep a guitar tuned low.

The gauges I use to tune to C Standard are .32 .58 .26 .46 .18 .36 .18 .30 .18 .18 .14 .14
Every time I walk into one of these shops and start rattling off the numbers I get an "oh that's right, it's you" - so it must stick in their heads - that or I'm noteworthy enough to be irritating.
Certainly no one else of the 3,754 people in the local 'Musicians in Wollongong Area' Facebook Group cared to comment on the strings/tuning when I posted about it, but this mightn't be lack of people doing it but more the type of people in the Facebook group that would rather use it to discuss how little venues pay, post remixes, and attempt to sell cars that 'could be used for band gear' - giving them permission to sell it on the page.

I love what can be done with lower tunings and find it good fun to experiment, but I reckon if I didn't have a guitar specifically for it, I'd do some damage - goodness knows I've definitely done some to my fingers.

[frailer24]

Stooge, I also had a "Lead Belly" 12 which was an old Johnson I found in a pawnshop. I kept that tuned to around B flat if memory serves me right. My last set was a hodge-podge running treble to bass: .16, .20 wound,
.36(all doubled); .46, .16; .56, .30; .70, .16. My main 6 is an old Sovereign, running .12-.54, tuned at C#. Tuned above an E flat, it sounds rather choked off.

[Old Man Ned]

Frailer24, you are not alone.  I keep 1 guitar (Tacoma) tuned a half step to a whole step low, depending on my mood and because a like the sound it produces when not tuned up to pitch.

[waxwing]

I think many guitjo players tune standard at D and then capo two. Since the neck join is well beyond the octave no issues with chording, really. But basically the skin head is more responsive with less down pressure, and the same may be true with certain flat tops. On my own guitjo (1930s Singer, made by Slingerland) rather than tune down, I sub a plain .09" for the first string and move everything over one string, which gives me the plain 3rd string I like without subbing in another string, too. Folks like the tone of it, but I think that's the goatskin head I put on.

Wax

[frailer24]

Wax, I find quite a few older boxes sound choked off at concert pitch. My old Orpheum 5 string banjo lives tuned a full step high for tone quality tho.

[waxwing]

Not knowing anything about banjo strings I looked up some sets and I see the four full length strings of one medium set I looked at are .010", .012", .016", .024"W, almost exactly what my top four strings end up being when I add in the .009". Makes sense. Of course, on a banjo head you also have the option of tightening up the head, which I do regularly.

String gauge is another variable you might want to experiment with on your guitar. If you would rather tune to standard at E you might try a lighter string set. Another issue that can be addressed is the neck angle-bridge height relationship. If an older guitar has had the neck reset with not enough angle the bridge must be taller to accommodate the proper set up (action at 12th fret), creating more down pressure at a given tuning, which can, as you say, "choke off" the sound.

There are many factors that go into finding the best neck angle, string gauge, set up and tuning to get the best sound out of a guitar, which makes it clear why you should find a good luthier experienced with vintage guitars if you do need a neck reset. Sure, retuning is the easiest fix, restringing is the next, but a proper neck reset has a lot to do with it. Every guitar needs just the right combination to get its best sound.

I use lights (.012"-.054") on my little concert Stella (1920ish), which has a severely bellied, but stable, top. My luthier managed to get the bridge placed in the perfect spot on the slope of the belly for excellent action. What's interesting is that the bridge torques slightly when I tune up to Spanish at A and the action lowers a touch, but I think the guitar sounds a bit stronger.

Wax

[alyoung]

Buying strings is a nightmare, I spent $53 on new strings for the aforementioned festival and buy them from one of three music shops near where I am. ....

Sounds like Australia is no different to New Zealand (where I am) ... so don't waste time and money trying to buy non-standard sets locally. Elderly Instruments (elderly.com) has a heavy-duty 12-string set that I use on my Guild F212XL, which I have had down as far as A (I now range from Bb to C). Gauges run from 14 at the top to 64 bottom (I did use a 66 bass when I was making up my own sets, but the .2 difference ain't no difference). I'm not an Elderly shareholder, by the way -- just someone who now regards the Lansing, Mi shop as my local music store...., and the know-nothing local stores can, in the immortal words of Roosevelt Sykes, KMA. On the Elderly site, search for 12-string guitar sets, and the one I'm talking about is the "Custom Acoustic Guitar Strings" set, for $US5.50 (down from $6.95).

[StoogeKebab]

My last set was a hodge-podge running treble to bass: .16, .20 wound,
.36(all doubled); .46, .16; .56, .30; .70, .16. My main 6 is an old Sovereign, running .12-.54, tuned at C#. Tuned above an E flat, it sounds rather choked off.

Quite some weight on the bass strings! I too have trouble with tuning normally with one of my guitars, an old Kay that I received at E Standard but I feel like the neck will rip right off the body if I ever try to get it back that high, so settle for D Standard.

On the Elderly site, search for 12-string guitar sets, and the one I'm talking about is the "Custom Acoustic Guitar Strings" set, for $US5.50 (down from $6.95).

Alyoung, you're wonderful. I'll never spend so much money on strings again. I'd found some places offering custom sets, heavy enough, but never anywhere big enough to sell individual packs

[frailer24]

Stooge, I have an old Johnson dread that I run at E standard, .013-.060. Works well for bluegrass stuff. And Wax, I just believe that some guitars come off the line with slight issues. Played a brand new Fender in store that sounded awful at E, but wowed me at D, for example. My Sovereign was rebuilt by a local who is extremely vintage-oriented. I think I just may have gotten used to the lower tuning for it. Saddles my black mare, if you catch my pony.

[jrn]

Years ago I watched a video of Hendrix playing an acoustic version of "Hear my train a comin' ".  Standard tuning, pitched at C, I believe. I really dug the sound of his guitar tuned down low like that.

When it comes to standard tuning, all of my guitars are pitched at B, C, or C#. That's acoustics and electric guitars too. I haven't been above C# in years.

Same thing with open tunings. Spanish at F and vestapol
 at C.

I just like the sound of them tuned down better.



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[Haans]

Same here for 12's, only way I built them. Would never consider Martin style IRW/ light gage/concert tuned strings type. Usually tuned to B. Have set my tuner to 420 instead of 440 also, much easier on old bones...