Topic: help with guitar ID

[Prof Scratchy]

Can anyone help identify this recent ebay purchase?

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Prof Scratchy]

Mmmmnn - probably not with a picture that small...and I don't know how to send a bigger one!!

[Prof Scratchy]

..let's see if this one is better...

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Richard]

I can't help you with what it is, but it does look pretty!  How does it sound?

[uncle bud]

I can't help you either Perfesser, but I am coveting it...

Nice purchase! Is it ladder-braced? Looks to be in excellent shape. Any up close pix?

[Pan]

Can't help you either, but congrats anyway!

Any chance to hear you "scratching" on it maybe on the back porch sometime soon ?

Yours

Pan

[Cambio]

Hi Professor,
I have a hard time making out the details of the picture, but judging from the color of the headstock and  the general look of the purfling, it looks to me like it's Chicago made, probably Lyon and Healy, similiar to this one on my website:
http://www.fraulini.com/forsale/oak-6-full-front.jpg
The real way to tell is to reach inside and check out the bracing pattern.  It most likely has one brace below the soundhole, running at an angle and then a 1" bridge plate running perpendicular to the grain, spanning the width of the top.  It was most likely designed for fairly light gauged strings and you should probably only put silk and steels on it. 
What are the back and sides made of?  Cool guitar.

[dabluz]

it sure looks like a "lakeside music" guitar, which was a chicago music store. most were made by lyon and healy. it's hard to tell from picture but sure looks like one. i have restored a couple. you can get them on ebay pretty cheap because most don't know they were possibly made by lyon and healy

[Prof Scratchy]

Many thanks for all the expert info on this. The guitar is still winging its way across the atlantic, so I won't be able to say much about the bracing or the sound until it gets here, hopefully in one piece and without too much luthier work being required. Cambio and Dabluz, here's a photo of the back, sides and purfling, which might clinch it for you??? BTW I have a number of no-name old guitars which people might be able to help identify. If it's not too much of a drag for folk, maybe I could post some more pics in the next wee while?
All help gratefuly appreciated.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Parlor Picker]

Your purchase looks very interesting.  Dare we ask how much you paid for it?  I often look at guitars on eBay in the hope of finding a bargain of this ilk, but without success.  I hope it lives up to expectations.  Maybe you can add an MP3 file of the way the guitar sounds (don't ask me how you do that!!).

Yes and please let's see pics of your other bargains.  Most of us anoraks Weenies just love looking at photos of acoustic guitars.

Michael

[Prof Scratchy]

Hi Michael
I paid $462 ....time will tell if that was a bargain or a liability. Meanwhile, Todd Cambio kindly emailed me with help to identify some other unnamed guitars, pics of which are attached.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Blue in VT]

I am always eyeballing the cheap parlors that you see for sale on ebay and thought that they might be a good way to learn some guitar repair skills without spending a crazy amount of money...plus I love parlors and wouldn't mind having a couple myself.  That said finding info on these rather obscure makers is somewhat difficult.  Can you experts out there suggest a few good references for a newbie like me? 

thanks,
Blue

[Parlor Picker]

Can you experts out there suggest a few good references for a newbie like me? 

You could do a lot worse than get Neil Harpe's book on old Stella guitars.  It comes with a CD of Neil playing different models that are all illustrated in the book.
www.stellaguitars.com

[Parlor Picker]

I often look at guitars on eBay in the hope of finding a bargain of this ilk, but without success. 

Just bought a Columbus parlor guitar made in the Lyon & Healy factory between 1910 and 1930.  Needs a bit of repair, but I have high hopes.  It has beautiful cherry wood back and sides.  Maybe I can post some pictures when I receive it and get it fixed.

[dabluz]

i have purchased two lakesides off ebay and looking at the back it's a dead ringer. both of mine had a label inside "lakeside music company, chicago illinois" binding, color, neck heel plate. all identicle. they were made for lakeside music by lyon and healy. really good sounding parlor's. ladder braced. i had one with tail piece and one with pyramid bridge. i was never completely sure the the pyramid bridge was original as there was no bridge plate. string ends rested on 1 inch wide thin brace running all the way across the top. now the secret is up and lakesides will probably increase in price on ebay.

[Prof Scratchy]

Thanks a lot, Dabluz - you and Todd seem to pretty much concur on this. Meanwhile, here's the picture of the twelve string I meant to post the other day but failed miserably - Todd has some ideas about this one which he's shared already by email. What do others think?

[attachment deleted by admin]

[dabluz]

i bet if you take a mirror and look inside on the top by the bridge plate or there abouts you will see in pencil "john ? (can't remember his last name)" " a date " and "dayton, ohio". sure looks like one i worked on a couple of years ago. six string version.

[harpe]

The no-name 12-string is most likely a Chicago-made guitar (Regal, L&H). I had a 6-string jumbo/auditorium guitar just like it not too long ago (same body shape and appointments). I have seen guitars with this same purfling and Rosette in at least four body sizes that were marked "Regal", "Stering" and "Galiano".

The tailpiece is the kind used mostly by Schmidt and differs from the 12-string tailpiece typically used by Regal, Harmony and other Chicago makers. However, this is definitely not a Schmidt guitar (wrong body shape). This leads me to wonder... could this be a conversion from what was once a 6-string guitar? The old style tailpieces are extremely rare. Having found one someplace (Ebay, for example), and having a good doner body, it's not much of a stretch to imagine someone fashioning a new neck and...

Incidentally, although many "Galiano" guitars were made by Oscar Schmidt, many were not. The Galiano folks also bought guitars from Regal, Harmony and Kay (among others) as well as building guitars in their own New York City shop.

Neil Harpe

[Prof Scratchy]

Thanks, Neil, for your contribution, which serves to deepen the mystery. I still haven't had time to check out Dabluz's 'John?' theory, but one day I most certainly will. As far as the converted six string theory goes.. I imagine anything's possible, but in the case of the neck on this guitar, any work must've happened a long time before ebay was thought of (or have been very cleverly faked). Also, they might've chosen a neck size to fit the average mortal! This one's a big handful-and-a-half! Todd vered towards Regal as well initially - but the headstock's definitely not the usual Regal shape. I thought when I bought it that it was a Stella (it was advertised as such by a very reputable US dealer) - but that was before I bought guitars from Neil and received a complementary copy of his excellent book referred to elswhere in this thread. One day, no doubt, all will become apparent???

[harpe]

What do you mean, the headstock is not the usual Regal shape? Regal made loads of guitars with this headstock shape, including some 12-string guitars. Maybe Todd is thinking of the Regal 12-strings made in the 1930s with a solid headstock. Regal guitars were made with quite a few different peghead designs, in both the slotted and solid styles. During the late '30s, they sold at least three different solid headstock 12-string guitars. But their earlier ones had a slotted headstock just like the guitar in question. Anyway, I recognize the body. It is a Regal.


You might want attribute it to Lyon & Healy. Regal built L&H guitars for them, so once again: Regal. Harmony also made similar 12-string guitars starting in the 1920s, but the body shape of your guitar was never a Harmony shape. The shape and appointments say "Regal".

NH

[Prof Scratchy]

Many thanks again, Neil. Where else but Weenie Campbell is there all this expertise on tap. Brilliant! BTW it was me (should that be "I"?),  who had the 'not Regal' theory based on the headstock shape - this due to my only having ever seen photos of Regals with the solid headstock. Thanks again to everybody who helped. Meanwhile I'm on the lookout for a handy mirror with which to have  a look inside.

[Parlor Picker]

Meanwhile I'm on the lookout for a handy mirror with which to have  a look inside.

Guess you'll have to take up burgling dentists...or ask your own dentist if he has an old mirror to give you in return for all the pain you've suffered over the years (to your mouth and your wallet).

But seriously folks, this has been a very interesting thread.  As long as you accept that the whole prewar guitar thing is a bit of a minefield and don't get too hung up on positive identification of every instrument, it's a fascinating subject.  Thanks for starting it and keeping it going Prof. Scratchy.

[Richard]

Aka mirrors... yes, ask your dentist - I did and was give a few disposable jobs which are also handy for the inside of computers 

[Stuart]

re: mirrors--if you can't wait for that six-month checkup, you could check the local drugstore. In addition, auto parts stores in their specialty tool section (also check Sears) might have something that will work.

[Prof Scratchy]

As (bad) luck would have it, I've got the dentist at 4pm  on Monday. I'll ask (if I can still speak)?

[Richard]

Thinking about this... Prof, are you in Scotland or some place north of Cheltenham..... if so I have feeling another Weenie called Snakehips (oh yes!) is up your way somewhere and is a real live dentist who plays a National... over to you 

[Prof Scratchy]

Richard - that's right. Snakehips lives round the corner from me and we play in the same band. But I never thought of asking him about the mirror..I'll do so tomorrow!

[snakehips]

Hi there !

Sho nuff ! I'm the Prof 's bandmate and also a Dentist.
Sure, he can have a mirror.

Talking of Dentists, did you hear about the guy that went to see his Dentist ?
The dentist said to him - "Say aah ".
The man said "Why ?"
The Dentist said "My dog just died"

[Richard]

Snakehips....  we'll let you know .... 

[harpe]

Forget dentist's mirrors. You can get a much better look inside a guitar with a mirror purchased at a hardware or auto parts store. Some have a round mirror, others have a nice large rectangular mirror. I like the rectangular type. Most all will have a telescoping handle and there are even some with a built-in light. As long as it will fit through the sound hole, I'd suggest getting the largest one you can find if you intend to concentrate on flat top guitars..

Whenever you know you'll be looking at guitars (like going to a guitar show, for example), it's wise to bring along your inspection mirror and a little flashlight. That way, you can see what's going on inside of instruments you're interested in...like repairs, loose braces - as well as to satisfy your curiosity concerning the method of construction.

NH

[onewent]

...very interesting thread, folks ...and a nice looking, fat-necked 12 ... one comment on mirrors:  the best idea I've seen, and used, is to get two small rectangular mirrors, tape them together so they fold like a book, slip them in the sound hole, open up and insert light or flashlight .. of course, w/ today's technology, small inspection video cameras are becoming more and more affordable, so ask your dentist for one of those    (side note..my daughters in her third year of dental sch, so I can see a little video camera in my future )

[waxwing]

You can also get what I think is called rope light. We used to use it some when I was in the tradeshow/display industry, and I've also sen some luthiers use it. It is a clear solid plastic strand, about 3/4 inch in diameter with wires and a light embedded in it every few inches. You just cut whatever length you want, cap the ends with special caps, one with a cord and plug, and you're good to go. A 1 to 2 foot length can easily be threaded into a guitar body providing plenty of light wherever you want to look.

I also like the hardware/auto store mirrors that have a plunger in the handle that allows you to manipulate the angle of the mirror.

All for now.
John C.

[uncle bud]

We used to use it some when I was in the tradeshow/display industry

I knew you had 'booth babe' written all over you...

[Richard]

A 1 to 2 foot length can easily be threaded into a .....

UB, there's no answer to it is there