Topic: Document getting out of the CD business

[dunplaying]

I have enough recorded music to keep me going and I will certainly not be downloading anything.

[funkapus]

Hi John,

Maybe it is a factor of my age, but I don't see not being able to buy the CDs themselves as being a crucial loss, if the music is otherwise available.  Getting the CDs presupposes that one has the money to purchase the CDs--that certainly is not the case for many of the people who love the music.  Acting like the loss of information is so horrendous also neglects to consider what a relatively brief window in time it has been when all of this music has been relatively easily available.
(snip)

I don't know that anyone has said that the loss is horrendous per se -- well, there was some commentary that way with respect to the possibility of a Carrington Event happening, but if that happens we've got bigger problems -- but more just that it sucks on a personal level.    For me, the physical aspect of recorded music is part of the experience -- less so with CDs, given that the size of the artwork doesn't help it entrance me the way LP covers did.  And while a particular source of downloads might make liner notes, or even a formatted booklet in PDF form, available for download as well, it doesn't grab me in the same way.  It's an irrational romantic thing, and I don't expect anyone else to feel just the same way.

I see youtube as being hugely beneficial in this regard.  It allows people who don't have the money to purchase the CDs to listen to the music and that's pretty great.  I spent most of my adult life trying to "own" all of the music that I was interested in; I've come to realize that it is more important to me to be able to listen to music than to own it.

I think this is eminently sensible; I've been trying to train myself to think the same way with respect to other things too, like with guitars/having GAS (the Walter Becker quote of "Would you rather be known as a guitar player, or as a guitar owner?" sticks with me).  But there are a couple of additional reasons why owning physical copies of recordings is important to me.  The first (and less important, especially in the case of most country blues) is that most music available in downloadable or streaming channels is only provided in a lossy compression format; sound files available for download from iTunes or Amazon, or streamed to you from YouTube or Spotify or wherever, are degraded in quality from the digital sources from which they were derived.  In the case of pre-war recordings, obviously there's already so much degradation between the original performance and the sound recoverable from the 78 that this doesn't seem like something worth caring about very much; but to me, it is for other musics.

The other (and much more important, to me) reason why I find owning physical copies of recordings to be important is that it gives me control over the process:  the recordings I own, I can listen to when I want and I don't need anyone else's OK to do so.  This isn't such an issue at this moment:  obviously right now, if you download an MP3, you've got it and you can listen to it whenever you want.  But Jeff Bezos, Steve Jobs, Tim Cook, and many others are all on record as saying that they want to move the world to a model in which no listeners ever own rights to listen to any music, where content providers hold all the music and we pay to hear it on a per-listen basis, or pay for a day or a week's worth of listening (at which point the downloaded file becomes unplayable).  They set the rates for how much it costs us each time we want to listen to our favorite song; and if they don't want to make that song available, we can't hear it and there's little we can legally do to change that.  It's not something from dystopian fiction:  they've said this is what they want, and the technology already exists; the phase of the model they're in right now is getting people used to the idea.  Maybe it's inevitable; and certainly my continued purchases of physical media aren't going to sustain the industry enough to prevent such a tide.  But still, that's a future I don't want.  So I still buy CDs. 

[Stuart]

...But still, that's a future I don't want.  So I still buy CDs. 

Me too. Well written, Funkapus.

There's a lot of detail and a fair amount  of complexity in the subject, but one thing we should be aware of is the wolf in sheep's clothing--or wolf in wolf's clothing--aspect. In the past, I've even heard complaints about libraries--"If the public couldn't borrow it, then they'd have to rent or buy it." It probably applies more to film and best selling books, but for some, the goal is to monetize everything to the greatest extent possible.

So for now, I'm a book, CD and DVD guy.

[Adam Franklin]

Here, here Funkapus!

I said it before I'll say it again, with the advent of streaming, people aren't listening to music. That's a sad thing. Things will change though, they always do.

[Stuart]

For those who might have missed it the first time around, I've attached, "The Impact of Radio on the Recording Industry," by Stan Leibowitz (2004).

Yesterday's news: http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/7408970/taylor-swift-paul-mccartney-180-artists-signing-petition-digital

[Johnm]

And I'll say it again, buying CDs and listening to music are two different things.

[Stuart]

And I'll say it again, buying CDs and listening to music are two different things.

But not necessarily mutually exclusive.

[Adam Franklin]

Not ownership, no you're right John. The ease of acquisition though, from my observations over the last 10 years, that is related.

For an experienced music fan and musician like yourself, the internet is a goldmine. For a young or inexperienced person, it's a needle in a haystack. I wonder what would come up on a youtube search of "best blues player"?

I am a bit behind you John, although I do see a time when I'll get rid of my collection. I'll always be glad I had it though. Otherwise, my music library* would've been a dining room.

* I have to call it a library or it's just an untidy room with stuff in.

[StoogeKebab]

Having only lived in an age of CDs and the internet I still find the acquisition of music extremely important. At school for example, nearly everything is done via streaming, the purchase of records is generally for display purposes, and the purchase of CDs for my friends with older cars. I am one of very few that likes to know I own my music and have it. I have spent the better part of the last two years listening to music, iTunes tells me I have spent 174+ days worth of hours listening to music since September 2014 and I see this discussion a few different ways. I love the access to music that my Spotify has given me, without it I wouldn't have been able to hear Tampa Red's 1960-61 Albums without shelling out for the original pressing (I believe, I could be mistaken) or Lonnie Johnson's complete 1947-1952 Recordings (Without buying the Chronological Classics CDs), but I am wary of it.

First streaming prices go up, then there are more and more ads, then there's the pathetic amount of Streaming Revenue one receives (I personally made a whopping $1.60 last calendar year), which doesn't support living artists so well, such as Leo "Bud" Welch, who may be my favourite living performer. I find it a little shifty.

In support of the ownership argument, one needs only to observe my iTunes Library to determine that I am a supporter of music ownership. Pooled from my own record collection, my Uncle's extensive and very specific collection (Primarily from right after his migration to Chicago) and most of all, the obsessive acquisition of probably over 100 Document CDs - as well as others of course, it's 212GB or 30,439 songs in total that are meticulously organised, artwork and liner notes, on my computer, my 6,403 favourites phone and most importantly, backup hard drive.

I love my music, I love listening to it, which is where I take most of my enjoyment, as much as I love the stuff around it and it's always with me in some form and I love technology and the access it has given me to it, but I am concerned for the future of music ownership.

[funkapus]

And I'll say it again, buying CDs and listening to music are two different things.

They are indeed two different things.  But for me, one makes sure that I'll continue to be able to do the other. 

[Adam Franklin]

That's really interesting Stooge. I don't think anyone I've met under 30 thinks that way.

The newer Tampa Red and Lonnie Johnson stuff never used to appeal to me. I've had a change of ears recently though, I rather like it now.

[StoogeKebab]

That's really interesting Stooge. I don't think anyone I've met under 30 thinks that way.

The newer Tampa Red and Lonnie Johnson stuff never used to appeal to me. I've had a change of ears recently though, I rather like it now.

Hah, I don't think anyone else my age has the same mindset as me either. Surprising number of friends and musicians I play with aged 15-20 that like some Country Blues, musically they think similarly, but all of them, the moment I mention a 'new' song or artist, goes straight in the Spotify playlist. I have a teacher, he's 26 and used to have a massive CD collection but has switched totally to streaming and show off vinyl and is now completely dependent on it. If something happened to his streaming, he'd be out of music to take with him pretty quick.

As for the Lonnie Johnson/Tampa Red stuff, I'd say that the energy is largely gone from the music as a whole without a band for Tampa Red, that to me was part of what I love so much about his music. Also my love for the not so subtle suggestiveness  - though having professional audio tools at my disposal, sometimes I like to rig it up and Jam with Tampa - something I can only do with the Stereo recordings on these albums.

Regarding Lonnie Johnson, I'm also a huge Jazz, Swing and Traditional Pop fan, it makes up probably 35-40% of my music collection (just over 50% being Blues) so his later ballads I really have a soft spot. I love his version of 'This Love of Mine' - one of the three songs written by Sinatra and I think Lonnie did it better!

[Adam Franklin]

Stooge, are you me?

hahahaha.

No one plays like a young person, except a young person. That's why anybody's early out put is 99.999993% the best, from Louis Armstrong to Oasis. David Bowie being an exception (and I really like his early stuff). And loads of others I'm sure........I'm off to check......

[Johnm]

Hi all,
A couple of really good sources on youtube are the channels of Nico Fournier, Random and Rare and Ragtime Dorian Henry.  Edith DeRonde and Traveller Into the Blue are also good, and BBLCOTTON is really good for Old-Time.  They've put up tons of good stuff I've been very happy not to have to buy to hear, and in some instances transcribe.
All best,
Johnm

[Adam Franklin]

 Totally agree John, it can be a very useful resource for teaching etc.