Topic: The opening vocal phrase of "pony blues"

[TenBrook]

Not to muddy the waters but while trying to find more information on the usage of the word 'shed' I found the below, which is a bit off topic but does have this:

"This is the rebirth of a favorite old Americanism. H.L. Mencken traced the verb 'to horseshed' to Kansas, and defined it as 'to wheedle, cajole'; in his Dictionary of Americanisms, Mitford Mathews cited a use by James Fenimore Cooper in his novel, 'The Redskins': 'Your regular 'horse shedder' is employed to frequent taverns where jurors stay, and drop hints before them touching the merits of causes known to be on the calendars.' In the days of circuit-riding judges, those who sought special favors did their work before the judge entered the courtroom - out in the horse shed, a synonym for 'stable.'"

That led me to try to suss out how common the use of the word 'shed' in place of 'stable' was but of course a google search for 'horse shed' brings up mostly, well, pages offering sheds for sale to keep your horse in.

http://www.nytimes.com/1981/12/13/magazine/on-language-by-william-safire-woodshed-blues-kimble-mead.html?pagewanted=all

I also stumbled on this intriquingly titled article which unfortunately costs $ to read:
?The Matter with Your Line?: Gender, Sexual, and Racial Politics in Charley Patton's ?Pony Blues?
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jacc.12288/abstract

[Stuart]

Thanks for the link to Tim Ryan's article, Lew. I'll try to read it the next time I'm at the UW.

As for "shed," if Charley actually sang "shed my pony...," this might be another example of a noun functioning as a verb (word class vs. word function). "Chain" is another example, and we've all heard of a car being "garaged." It's how the meanings and usages of words evolve and expand.

Since language is spoken (speech) and writing is an external representation and record of speech, naturally what is written is not a complete and accurate record of all that was spoken and/or sung. While what survives in writing provides us with a lot of useful info, it's best to remember its limitations and look at it with both eyes open.

[TenBrook]

You're very welcome Stuart. I just scanned the article (searching for 'shed' first, with no hits) and it seems the author is approaching the song from the perspective of the opening lines being ?Hitch up my pony, saddle up my black mare? which in his interpretation means that the singer is hitching his pony to his mare to go out and find a rider for the pony which he then notes is likely being used as a euphemism for a companion. I hadn?t thought of that interpretation before and though I think we all agree ?hitch up? likely isn't what Charley's singing, it does open up a new perspective (to me at least) of taking the pony with him to find a rider.

My interpretation, if the line was something like ?It is shed my pony, saddle up my black mare? or ?It is chain my pony, saddle up my black mare?, is that the song is about the singer putting aside one companion and switching to another as I assumed pony and mare were both euphemisms.

I looked up pony in my copy of the ?The Pocket Dictionary of American Slang? published in 1960 and it states: pony, n. 1. A literal translation of a foreign language text, employed without the teacher?s knowledge. Used at least as early as 1827. Very common -> 2. Any unethical aid, list of answers etc., used by a student in a test. -> 3. Any physical or mental aid, such as a crutch, reference book, hearing aid, or list of telephone numbers. 4. A small glass for liquor or apertifs, often bellshaped so that the contents can be more easily held, sniffed, and admired. Since c1850. 5. A small glass of beer; the glass itself. Since c1885; colloq. 6. A horse. 7. A chorus girl, burlesque dancer, etc.; esp. a small, attractive chorus girl. Orig. theater use. From the prancing movements of such dancers.

It?s that last definition that I had imagined Charley was using, though a more generalized version, i.e. a small, attractive woman. But, of course, as others have pointed out, that?s only my interpretation and knowing what Charley meant and indeed what he actually sang, is another matter. I found the other definitions interesting. I?m sure most of us wish we had a ?pony? when interpreting Charley?s diction and meaning.

I hope I haven't belabored the point, and must give thanks to chickenlegs and all the rest for giving my wandering mind something to focus on for a bit.

[chickenlegs]

I hope I haven't belabored the point, and must give thanks to chickenlegs and all the rest for giving my wandering mind something to focus on for a bit.

You're welcome TenBrook, and thanks to you for your extensive research (interesting stuff).
My own search of idioms, slang, and catch-phrases related to "shed" didn't turn up anything that was on topic.

But I did learn through your research and a search of definitions and usages of "shed", that it has been in use (as a verb) in various forms for a long time.
It is ubiquitous in the bible, in as "to shed blood" and "to shed tears" (man, it's been a long time since I've read biblical verses). But nothing in the specific sense of "to cast off; get rid of", which is what I was hoping to find.

Thanks again to you, and to all, for your input and feedback. Even if we haven't "shed" any light on the matter, as related to Patton's lyric.

P.S. Edited three times for clarity and grammar, due to my lack of texting skills and my neurosis.

[Longsands]

There are obviously limits on how accurately you can tease the words out of records as beat up as Pony Blues, so I think there?s some merit in considering how it was covered by those who would have heard the song straight from the horse?s mouth, if you?ll pardon the pun.
Big Joe Williams sang Pony Blues on his Classic Delta Blues record, and verses one and three give us:
    ?Catch my pony, saddle up my black mare?
    ?Yeah catch my pony, saddle up my black mare?
    ?Well, hitch up my pony, saddle up my black mare?
    ?Yeah catch my pony, saddle up my black mare?
Hayes McMullen?s Hitch Up My Pony has:
    ?Hitch up my pony, saddle up my black mare?
Howling Wolf?s Saddle Up my Pony has the following in the first and last verses:
    ?Grab(?) my pony, saddle up my brown mare?
    ?Hook up my pony, saddle up my brown mare?
Son House?s LoC versions have:
    ?Why don?t you catch my pony / Shetland, and saddle up my black mare?
Honeyboy Edwards, on Mississippi Delta Bluesman and I?ve Been Around, has:
    ?Will you hitch my buggy, saddle up my grey mare?
Johnny Shines, on Hey Ba Ba Re Bop, Live 1970 and Traditional Delta Blues, goes his own way with:
    ?Get my pistol, saddle up my black mare?
So, ?hitch? and ?catch? making most of the running and it?s possible of course that Patton sang many variants in performance.  For my money, I think Patton sings ?You just catch? on the record, but it could be lots of things.

[chickenlegs]

Hey Longsands,

I had mentioned in an earlier post that his contemporaries seemed to have their own take on what Patton sang. I also implied and agree that he could've sung it differently other times he performed it.
However, since Patton was the first to sing it (as far as we know), it would be nice to know exactly what he sings on his one immortalized performance of it. Since all we can do is take an educated guess at what Patton sang, in the end you are right.
Others' versions of "pony" are the only other information we have, so we should accept them as strong evidence for "hitch" or "catch".
While I don't happen to hear either one, I'm okay with not knowing for sure. After all, this has been at question in my mind for a long time. For me this is just an intriguing curiosity.

BTW, nice work digging up all of those lyrics for "pony".

[chickenlegs]

Of course I was wrong when I said above that Patton was the first to sing those lines. Tommy Johnson recorded "black mare blues" earlier, in 1928 I believe (are there earlier recordings of them?).
Johnson sang basically identical verses in two takes of "black mare".

"Hitch up my buggy, saddle up my black mare, saddle my black mare"
"Hitch up my buggy, saddle up my black mare"
"Find my woman, know she's out in the world somewhere"

Though the point can be argued as to whom got the lyrics from whom.

[chickenlegs]

Oh yeah (wow! my mind is slipping), BLJ recorded "black horse blues" before Johnson in 1926.
The title verse, the third in the song is;

"Go and get my black horse and saddle up my Grey mare"
"Go get my black horse and saddle up my Grey mare"
"I'm goin' off to my good gal, she's in the world somewhere"

Are there any others?

Now I'm thinking maybe Patton got it from Lemon and sings "get". Man, I gotta go play.

[big joe weems]

I hear: "Need to stirrup my pony, saddle up my black mare."

[chickenlegs]

I hear: "Need to stirrup my pony, saddle up my black mare."

Hey big joe weems, 

I suppose you could be right if Patton sings "stirrup" as "stir'p", since it sounds as a one syllable word. But I don't really hear a "p" sound at the end.
After some objective thought, I'm thinking that "need to get" or "need to catch" make the most sense. This would fit with the third verse as; describing the attributes of his Shetland, which he needs to "get" or "catch", with Shetland in the third verse, and pony in the first verse both being metaphors for the same lover. The problem arises while listening. I don't hear either word, and the preceding two syllables (need to?) could be almost anything.
After all of this, I'm resigned to the fact that this is probably unresolvable.
Thanks for your input.

[chickenlegs]

Since language is spoken (speech) and writing is an external representation and record of speech, naturally what is written is not a complete and accurate record of all that was spoken and/or sung. While what survives in writing provides us with a lot of useful info, it's best to remember its limitations and look at it with both eyes open.

Well said Stuart, and right on.
I've always thought of music notation and theory in this way too. As coming after the fact, to document and explain the what and why of what has already been played and/or sung.

[Johnm]

Hi all,
For what it is worth, I listened the day before yesterday, and despite being pretty well convinced at that point that "You just catch my pony, saddle up my black mare" was the line as Charlie Patton sang it, I heard "It is, catch my pony, saddle up my black mare" clearly, for both renderings of the first line of that verse, which is as Chris had it early on.  I hear no "n" sound at the front end of the first syllable, which "need" requires, no long e sound, which "need" requires, a soft s sound at the end of the second syllable, which "to" doesn't have, etc.  We're definitely moving into the territory as per Mark Twain's description of Henry James' writing:  "He chewed more than he bit off." 
All best,
Johnm   

[waxwing]

As I said before, I think the first two syllables could be a dozen different things. Charley just doesn't vocalize anything fully there. But I can't figure how anyone can hear "catch" for the 3rd syllable. It doesn't start with the hard attack of a "k" sound and it clearly doesn't end in a "ch" sound. Even those who promote it state the "ch" is left off, but I don't hear a "t" sound either, so all I hear that might be part of "catch" is the flat "a" sound, very de-emphasized. I'm listening with headphones or with earbuds pressed in, dozens of times, never slowing it down, over the last few days, to the Yazoo "Best of", the Revenant, and the one from the 2nd Blues Images calendar. (All of which sound surprisingly similar, which makes me worry that iTunes Match has replaced them all with the same remastering, but whatever, the vocal sounds relatively clear in all.) To me the beginning has the softer fricative attack of a "ch". Charley's accent, because he vocalizes from the throat, makes a long "A" sound more like a flat short "a" or even short "e". The "n" at the end seems clear to me also, eliding nicely into "my". So I here something like "chen my pony" and try as I might, can't hear anything else recommended. It is suggested by those who hear "tend" but again, no hard "t" at the beginning.

I agree that the first two words are nigh impossible, but it ain't "catch", even if that was what every other singer who covered the song sang. Charley has demonstrated in many songs that when it came to lyrics, he was his own man and would often change standard lyrics slightly to suit his personalization of the song.

Wax

[chickenlegs]

So I here something like "chen my pony" and try as I might, can't hear anything else recommended.

Yeah! "jes kit chen my pony", you know? as in; put 'em in the kitchen.
Just some levity.
But in all seriousness, I with you Wax, I don't hear "catch" either.

[Stuart]

I took time time off and then listened to the Revenant and Best of tracks several times on the computer, but with decent headphones. I'm leaning towards "It is..." or "It's just..."--or maybe a drawn out "It's"-- (as Charley pronounced it) for the first two syllables. Then followed by something that sounds like "catch" in the first line and "get" in the second line. But I have to agree with Wax about this one and might add that even a pristine, unplayed 78 might not help, or even being there to hear Charley sing into the microphone as per Son House's recollections about the difficulty of understanding Charley. Maybe some things he sang really were incomprehensible to the listener and not just a function of the recordings.