Topic: Elvie (L.V.) Thomas

[Kokomo O]

Hardtime, sorry if you thought I was responding to you. I was actually replying to Gilgamesh's comment about cynicism at the end of page 8 of the thread. I don't know why it took so long for my post to get inserted. No offense intended, to him, and certainly not to you.

[finn]

If you're responding to a specific  post, it might be best to quote the specifics when you give your reply. Otherwise, it reads as a general statement to the entire group.

[Kokomo O]

Right. Lesson learned. The other lesson, I suppose, is don't post from the phone, because that's the only reason I can think that the post was delayed showing up.

[hardtimekillingfloor]

Just wondering if anyone has the email for John Jeremiah Sullivan?  Thought it might be interesting to invite him over to joint the discussion

[wreid75]

I would love to hear from Caitlin Love since she has been in the belly of the beast.  I bet her story would be very different.  It is easy to vilify from afar when few details are known.  Three sides to every story and usually more than one lie.

[dj]

Three sides to every story and usually more than one lie.

Or, more likely, three very different honestly expressed points of view. 

[hardtimekillingfloor]

I've been shown some amazing items from different collectors that aren't public but it is because it is that collector's livelihood and hard work and reputation that would be violated.

Randy Meadows earlier post on this topic

If I am to believe Randy then the hording of this kind of precious historical information is commonplace.  As a chemist I am use to sharing information and for the most part freely.  When we publish our work in peer reviewed journals we usually pay or our employers often pay for the article to be published.  When the flow of information hits a snag it unusually due to the sources of the money paying for the research.  Even then the information comes to light in comparatively short order when compared to the decades that Mack and possibly others have kept their information as a closely guarded secret.  It is sad to think that treasure troves of information collects dust as so many of the people who actually care slowly die off, or get to the age and poor health that they no longer care.  I can only imagine how much many of the researchers who have passed such as John Fahey, Stephen Calt, Bernie Klatzko, James McKune, Tom Hoskins, Nick Perls,Bill Barth, Henry Vestine, Alan Lomax and others would have loved to gaze at the hidden away and stored information before moving on to their next destination. 

It is likely that this information will sit until the remaining founding investigators leave this world, and if we are to believe Suzy T and Randy this is the way it should be.  There on a shelf it sits waiting on the day waiting on its caretaker to set them free.  The people who made this music, were they ever really free?  I mean free like the upper middle class and above white enthusiasts who devour this music now.  No, their lives were often oppressed by much wealthier white men and now their stories are oppressed by much wealthier white men who claim to be so different than the plantation owners of the past.  Susannah and Suzy can say that history and the life story of these people have not been withheld, hoarded or hijacked but would LV feel the same way?  Would the other people who freely (yes freely as in they were not paid to talk) gave of themselves or loved ones gave for them what it is we know feel the same way, that the stories stay shelved until more white people can make money off of their lives?  I doubt it.  But for some they still lie there sitting in a box, or on a shelf, collecting dust, not dying but definitely not living and surely not what people thought would happen when they offered up the history of these musicians.

Thank God Alexander Fleming didn't feel this way or many of us wouldn't be here.  Thank God Tesla didn't feel this way or we might not be posting here.

[Fkeller]

I do have to push back a little here on your term "hoarding."  I can speak with SOME degree of authority and let you know Mack is not and has not hoarded.  He DOES have a large collection and he absolutely has been stolen from...and not just with this most recent incident.

I can tell you that he has shared his information.  In fact, some of his famed Robert Johnson material he shared with others who wrote a book and made a movie.  He has dedicated his entire adult life to promoting and fostering jazz and blues music, going back to 1949 at least.  Simply because much of his writing is either out of print or was done for booklets (like the programs for the Smithsonian Folklife Festivals), album notes, or other small run issues does not mean he's been keeping it from the public. 

He has obviously not shared it to the extent that many would like.  That's too bad and it's his choice.  He did do the work, most of it unpaid and on his own time.  I will say that he remains an extraordinarily open and accessible man.  I admire him more for having met him and I can say that he's still fielding phone calls and visitors.  The shame is that many of these phone calls excoriate him for no good reason and that doesn't help him feel willing to hurry up the publication of his material.  He is aware of the scolding he's gotten here and other sites as well. 

Your desire to know does not preclude the feelings of the fellow who's done this work.  Equating the bringing forth of penicillin with the (currently SEMI-private) stories about our favorite artists and their culture seems to me to be spurious at best.  Nobody will die if this material is not published in Mack's lifetime.  I know I'll be doing my best to help him bring it forth; that's possibly underway, in its beginning phases, and not a subject for further discussion. 

I close leaving you with the idea that if you feel in any way slighted by this material not being published, I can assure you Mack feels worse.

[hardtimekillingfloor]

"Your desire to know does not preclude the feelings of the fellow who's done this work.  Equating the bringing forth of penicillin with the (currently SEMI-private) stories about our favorite artists and their culture seems to me to be spurious at best.  Nobody will die if this material is not published in Mack's lifetime.  I know I'll be doing my best to help him bring it forth; that's possibly underway, in its beginning phases, and not a subject for further discussion." 

This is my hobby and I will never have the opportunity to learn everything I want about this music.  Many other people are far more invested.  Some would like to but don't see the point since they have been getting excited about information becoming available only to have it crushed.  They have checked out.  Some still hang on.  Yes you might (MIGHT) be allowed to get access to some (SOME) of Macks info if everything's goes according to plan, which for most people that has never happened.    I hope you are more successful in your current attempts to work with Mack and I applaud you for that.  Using any of the definitions of spurious is an inaccurate and slanderous in how it was applied.  Nothing I said was bogus, fake or fraudulent, simulated, or deceptive.  It wasn't nonsense nor illegitimate.  I know several people personally who have tried to work with Mack to no avail.  Research and knowledge should play by the same set of rules be it Fleming, Einstein, Tesla, Edison, Franklin, McCormick, or Peter Pan.  You say no one will die if the material is not published in Mack's lifetime but the memories of people fade.  Eventually those memories die, sadly before the person in many cases.  When biographical information of someone vanishes those people unfortunately die twice.  Their legacy dies, even if they never knew they had a legacy.  There is no assurances that anything will ever be published once he dies.  I know that is okay with some.   

[Mike Brosnan]

Did L.V. and Geeshie's music start sounding better after all these new revelations? Aren't we all here for the music first and foremost? I was blown away by the original NYT article, but the best part for me was that L.V.'s family was able to appreciate her in a new way. That could've happened without publishing anything. Though this information is interesting to many of us, why should it matter as much as (or more than) the music? I understand all points of view being presented here, but I think everyone might benefit from taking a deep breath and feeling grateful that: a) we are still able to listen to these precious few recordings of these great artists; and b) in some cases we are fortunate enough to learn a bit more about these artists thanks to those that have done the research. Now if someone is actually "hoarding" commercial recordings of these artists that are unknown to the general public... I have some strong concerns. Photographs, details about sexual orientation and/or rap sheets are just scenery. Just my two cents.

[tinpanallygurl]

The sense of entitlement to free information on the Internet or cheap access to information via books (etc) that exists today astonishes me.

You nailed it right on the head.  I can't believe the gall of people.  The nerve of people to think that they should be able to obtain instant or fast access to information on a topic buying magazines, annuals, cd liner notes, books, booklets, and leaflets using their hard earned money.  The sense of entitlement confounds me too.  I think that perks of modern society with news agencies, internet, libraries, and printing presses keep spoiling us.  No one wants him to not be appreciated for what he did or any researcher has done.  People just want an avenue to go and buy a book, leaflet, etc to learn it.  Oh yea about going out and getting the info ourselves.................since HoneyBoy died there are no more prewar singers left alive to talk to.

[wreid75]

Moderators it might be time to shut this one down

[wreid75]

however Sullivan and Love have been tarred and feathered a bit, but I bet to them it was worth it

[Shovel]

however Sullivan and Love have been tarred and feathered a bit, but I bet to them it was worth it

haha, of course it was!   

[Slack]

Moderators it might be time to shut this one down

Why?  You guys and gals have been great.  A few off the wall opinions or observations, but just move on.  It's been a very good thread! 

Just remember the weenie maxim, don't take yourself, or anyone else, too seriously.