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Author Topic: fort stockton rag  (Read 2453 times)

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kiev

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fort stockton rag
« on: October 07, 2005, 10:16:36 PM »
This is a great place on the www. My interests are old delta blues and ragtime, as well as experimental and prepared guitar.  I am attempting to post a Blind Blake inspired instrumental played on a short scale oscar schmidt guitar tuned up a bit. Thanks
and all the best
Rooster Kiev from Baker, La

Offline waxwing

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Re: fort stockton rag
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2005, 10:58:19 PM »
Welcome to Weenie Cambell, Rooster. Glad you found us. And that's a fine howdyado, too. Definitely has that Blake feel.

Hope you're keepin' dry down there.

All for now.
John C.
"People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it."
George Bernard Shaw

“Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you.”
Joseph Heller, Catch-22

http://www.youtube.com/user/WaxwingJohn
CD on YT

Offline uncle bud

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Re: fort stockton rag
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2005, 10:14:31 AM »
Nice job, Rooster. Welcome aboard.

norman

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Re: fort stockton rag
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2005, 08:32:29 PM »
at the 24th second, i'm losing the tempo.. but that's probably just me. I think you've got great skills.  Maybe some day i'll work enough and be able to play stuff that fast and clean...

ciao

Vince

Offline a2tom

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Re: fort stockton rag
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2005, 06:59:14 AM »
Thanks for that - very nice.  You're a darn fine picker - really enjoyed it. 

There are a few points where I lose the bass - it gets muddled, indistinct, whatever you want to call it.  I can't tell whether you are intending to roll the bass for that effect on purpose or just not keeping up with the pretty aggressive pace you've chosen. 

Wild sounding guitar!  I wouldn't have placed it as what you called it.  You using a thumbpick?  Fingerpicks?  Also, are you playing an intentional harmonic on the very high note that keeps ringing out, or just tuned/capoed that high, or what?

Tom

Offline Prof Scratchy

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Re: fort stockton rag
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2005, 01:12:55 PM »
That certainly goes at some pace! How many fingers have you got on that right hand?? Sounds like a lot! Echos of Blind Arthur's Breakdown in there - lots of different and hard-to-play parts.
Nice one!
Prof S

kiev

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Re: fort stockton rag
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2005, 02:51:49 PM »
Thanks to all for listening to the Fort Stockton Rag, and sharing helpful observations and criticism!
Yeah, there are tempo clams, and the bass /rhythm is not as ?up-front? as I would like it in some spots. This is partly because of the recording setup, partly because of the lack of bass response in the guitar, but mostly due to the fact that I am still working on the thumb-driven ?bass-strum? and double thumb technique.
The piece is definitely influenced by Blind Arthur?s Breakdown, which is one of my favorite Blake pieces ? or guitar pieces by anyone for that matter.
To answer Tom?s questions: No picks on this one ? bare fingers on a recent model Oscar Schmidt OG-1 student guitar.  These short  23? scale guitars work well for me if I try to play  fast rags or have to make stretches for  ?mu? chords.  I?ve found that tuning up a bit ? usually a half step with light strings, or a full step with extra lights ? gives more ?bounce? to the strings and in general makes this cheeeep guitar sound better.  To preserve the health of the guitar, I always detune  to something more standard before putting the instrument away for the night.  The ?harmonic? effect is unintentional ? probably the result of the recording process(cassette deck + dynamic mic) or the OG-1 resonating at a weird frequency.
And thanks to Waxwing for posting info about Music of the Medicine Shows, 1926-1937 at another location in the forum.  That?s on the list for my next Amazon order.

Rooster Kiev

Offline a2tom

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Re: fort stockton rag
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2005, 04:32:57 PM »
Quote
but mostly due to the fact that I am still working on the thumb-driven ?bass-strum? and double thumb technique.

I probably sounded more critical than I meant to - in fact, I am intrigued by the bass/thumb in there.  I feel like I should study this piece on that count (and probably many others...).  What exactly do you mean by "double thumb technique"?

I'm actually sort of serious by the way.  There have are several Back Porch tunes I feel like putting into Transcribe! - I suppose that's the ultimate compliment...

tom

kiev

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Re: fort stockton rag
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2005, 08:24:59 AM »
Tom:
That is indeed a compliment!
 To try to answer your question about double-thumbing:
Double thumbing means using  the picking hand thumb to brush, or bounce between strings to play a bass line or bass fills.  A simple example is using one?s  thumb to play two consecutive bass notes  The first note anticipates the second, like in the C chord the C on the 5th string is struck first, then the thumb brushes or more accurately bounces off the tension of the 5th string to the E on the 4th string.  The second note is more accented and may be clipped by raising the finger or  muted using the palm after it is struck for effect. Counting in the first half of a 4/4 measure bass notes C and E  would fall respectively  on ??..and  ? ONE ? ? Melody notes on the chord might be picked or strummed on ? and ? TWO . . ? You can hear this in Diddie Wah Diddy and  Black Dog by Blake.  He was the master of this technique, combining it with hammer-ons and slides to play complex bass runs  in Skoodle Loo Doo Blues for instance, and in breaks in Blind Arthur?s Breakdown and Seaboard Stomp. The fast piano like bass runs connecting the C chord to the E7 in West Coast Blues(and other Blake compositions) are double-thumbed. 
I?ve had best results picking with my thumbtip at a right angle to the string. I?ve also found that I have to ?dig in? with the thumb with a bit of force to get a good sound. As I mentioned previously, I prefer a short scale guitar tuned maybe a half step up from standard for these rags. I?ve tried a capo on a standard guitar, but its not the same ? its my own idiosyncrasy, I guess.
However, I?ve seen people use dreadnoughts or stratocasters and play  these thumb rolls perfectly using plastic thumbpicks as well as glued on acrylic nails.
Hopes this helps,
Rooster Kiev

Offline Rivers

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Re: fort stockton rag
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2005, 08:43:38 AM »
Nice, not everybody can get that Blake double thumb syncopated bounce, self included. How long have you been working on that technique? The harmonics are interesting.

kiev

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Re: fort stockton rag
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2005, 04:30:56 PM »
Thanks, Rivers.  I've been working on the Blake "thumb" for a while.  The breakthrough for me, after playing around with the Blake stuff for a couple of years,  was exploring the "string tension" factor more than anything else. I think that if I continued to practice on a standard tuned guitar, instead of trying things like the Oscar Schmidt 23" scale tuned higher than standard tuning, or a Tacoma Papoose (tuned up a couple of whole steps), I might not have been able to approximate the technique. The harmonics and general guitar sound are mostly produced by the very low-tech recording process, I think.

Rooster Kiev

dabluz

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Re: fort stockton rag
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2005, 07:23:46 AM »
wow, thats off the hook

PiedmontBlues

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Re: fort stockton rag
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2005, 03:02:39 PM »
Wow! What finger speed!! I got tired just listening. I need a nap now...
Seriously though, it sounds great.

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