Topic: Skip James' Guitar Style--Queries and Tips

[One-Eyed Ross]

I am so glad I am not the only one that finds his vocal range hard to copy....

[EddieD]

I would sound like a fool trying to sing like Skip James. I had a Buddy Guy CD a while back that was all acoustic and played Killing Floor and did a pretty good job singing like Skip. At the time I didn't know about Skip James and wondered why he sang it so high.

[Blues Vintage]

That's probably the "Blues Singer" album. One of his best albums in his mostly overproduced discography.

[EddieD]

Yes, that's the one. I agree with you Harry. I was never much of a Buddy Guy fan but really liked that album.

[frankie]

I would sound like a fool trying to sing like Skip James.

Eddie - maybe you would and maybe you wouldn't...  you should try it, though...  pretty much everybody has some kinda falsetto they can work with if they take the time to find it. You don't really know what your voice can do unless you try a few things that seem inadvisable, and most men generally think of their voices as being 'low' - not always true, and even if it is, most of your power and projection is going to be at the top end of your range, at least initially.

Anyway, you probably won't sound a whole lot like Skip, but you'll find out a whole lot about what Eddie could sound like.

[EddieD]

Thanks for the encouragement Frankie. Singing is a weak spot for me. I usually just assume I can't do much with my voice but surprise myself from time to time.

[ZigZagWanderer]

James plays a lick during the solo sections of Illinois Blues that I can't seem to get my hands around--right after he plays a D-shape at the 7th fret he goes back near the nut and it sounds like he is playing e-e-d-b and repeating it a few times before going back into the next verse.  Does anyone know what he is doing here?  It sounds like an easy lick, maybe with pull-offs, but I just can't get it to flow right.  Any thoughts greatly appreciated.   

[banjochris]

I'm at work and don't have a guitar with me, so forgive the vagueness of my description, but as I remember it Skip doesn't go back down to the nut right away, he plays a note on the third string (I want to say it's a C#). He hits it with his thumb as part of the alternation and then plays the open top two strings. The little riff fits right into an easy picking pattern if you do it that way.
Chris

[Gmaj7]

Yes I play "killing floor" and "devil got my woman" in crossnote (open D minor) tuning.
Although in my (totally amateur) opinion they are major key.

Pretty ridiculous to comment on a 10+ year old comment but I'm curious about this, and if it's a common feeling?

The first note of Devil Got My Woman is a major III note but I think he's just using it for colour as he walks up the third string.

The only chords seem to be i and v. The difficulty in playing a IV chord in cross-note means he never plays a IV or iv chord so I guess that keeps it a little ambiguous too.

But the melody relies so heavily on the vii degree and the VI degree that I think the song is in the D Dorian, not D Major or D Aeolian.

A funny thing I find with both Devil and Hard Time Killing Floor Blues is that the outros do have a major feel to them. Maybe because in the outro to Devil, at least, it sounds like he might switch to major V chord briefly, which changes the feel?


Edit: the first note is a major III (F# on the third string) not a major IV

[Johnm]

Hi Gmaj7,
I think you hit the nail on the head in assessing the scale for "Hard Time Killing Floor" and "Devil Got My Woman" (and "Cypress Grove") as D Dorian.  If you look at the sung melody as opposed to what Skip plays, which gets into chromatic scale degrees that speak in blues cliches, like the walk-down on the third string, the sung melody is minor with a major VI note and a minor vii note, which is Dorian.  The fact that Skip ends on a I chord with a major third and a flat vii doesn't make the songs major, it just means that he resolved to a major third in the final chord.
If you contrast these songs with Booker White's songs that he played in cross-note tuning, Booker's really are Mixolydian, for he fingers and sings a major third over his I chord from beginning to end, but has a major VI note and a flat vii.
All best,
Johnm   

[Gmaj7]

Hi Gmaj7,
I think you hit the nail on the head in assessing the scale for "Hard Time Killing Floor" and "Devil Got My Woman" (and "Cypress Grove") as D Dorian.  If you look at the sung melody as opposed to what Skip plays, which gets into chromatic scale degrees that speak in blues cliches, like the walk-down on the third string, the sung melody is minor with a major VI note and a minor vii note, which is Dorian.  The fact that Skip ends on a I chord with a major third and a flat vii doesn't make the songs major, it just means that he resolved to a major third in the final chord.
If you contrast these songs with Booker White's songs that he played in cross-note tuning, Booker's really are Mixolydian, for he fingers and sings a major third over his I chord from beginning to end, but has a major VI note and a flat vii.
All best,
Johnm

Thanks John.
How do you interpret the major third he plays in the signature lick on Hard Time Killing Floor Blues? It pops up a lot, naturally, unlike in Devil Got My Woman.
When assessing the scale or mode of a song is it more important then to focus on the sung melody rather than what is played on the guitar?
As I understand it, major/minor third "worrying" and ambiguity is a blues hallmark so I'm very interested in if there's firm answers to such a question.

[Johnm]

Hi Gmaj7,
I do not believe there are any firm answers to the questions you pose, but I'll tell you how I think about them and why.  I do think of a song as being in the scale/mode that the sung melody employs.  In the case of the Skip James songs that you cite, If Skip consistently sings a minor third along with a major sixth and minor seventh note, I would say the song is in Dorian.  If his instrumental responses to the sung lines consistently use a major third rather than the minor third that the sung melody uses, and are in agreement with the sung melody on the Vi and Vii notes, ("Cypress Grove" does this) I would say that the sung melody is in the Dorian mode, and the instrumental response is in the Mixolydian mode.  A less technical way of describing what he's doing (and, I believe, a less accurate one) is to say he is playing in a scale with a flat seven and a variable third.  What I don't like about this way of describing what Skip is doing is that it makes it sound as though he varies the third in his vocal and in his instrumental responses, and that may not be the case--he may be doing the third consistently in his singing and in his playing, but differently in the singing and the playing.  However one would choose to describe/analyze it, I think the most accurate thing you could say is that Skip played what he wanted to hear.
All best,
Johnm

[monts]

Hey guys, looking for a second opinion on the main run in the 1931 recording of Cypress Grove.  Cross note tuning. 

I hear Skip slide up to the 4th fret of the 3rd string, while simultaneously playing the second string open at the same time, all in one attack, then adding the 3rd fret of the second string, then going directly to the descent on the 3rd string, 2nd fret, 1st fret and so on.  The Stefan Grossman tab starts the riff as two separate notes instead of the simultaneous slide I'm talking about, and also places an additional open note second string right before the descent, and I just don't hear that at all on the recording??  There's an instructional video with it where it's played that way as well, it just sounds off to me.   

This might be confusing, but either way, I'm sure many of you know this riff, so any help or opinions would be awesome!

[Johnm]

Hi monts,
Skip's signature lick run on his Paramount recording of "Cypress Grove Blues" is a series of three triplets, starting on beat two of the third and seventh bars of his form.  He does not slide into a unison--the first triplet is a slide to the fourth fret of the third string, followed by the open second string going to the third fret of the second string.  The second triplet begins with either the open second string or the fourth fret of the third string, going from there to the second fret of the third string followed by the first fret of the third string.  The third triplet goes from the open fourth string to the fourth fret of the fifth string and then back to the open fourth string. I hope this helps.
All best,
Johnm

[monts]

John, thank you!! breaking it down to three triplets makes a lot more sense to me now!! It was hard to hear in the recording but it makes perfect sense!