Topic: Charley Patton 75 Year Anniversary Edition CD/DVD box set

[twangmeister]

Hi

Browsing on UK Amazon today I can across this Charley Patton package that I wasn't aware of.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Year-Anniversary-4CD-Charley-Patton/dp/B001URRY8I/ref=wl_it_dp_o?ie=UTF8&coliid=I2QIAWRHZ0OM3V&colid=1TZ0K41WLXN79

It's got one 5 start review (no reviews yet on Amazon.com) and consists of three Cd's & one DVD.

The product description says in part;

"This 60 track set contains many of Patton?s best known songs as well as the sources for those songs and covers or variants by those artists that came after him. Also included is the DVD, ?Talkin? Patton?, that contains interviews with musicians, musicologists, blues scholars and Delta historians and contains brand new footage of Dockery?s, the legendary plantation where Patton was raised and where many people believe the Delta Blues truly blossomed as an art form"

I already have the JSP 5 CD set, but this looks interesting, particularly for the DVD. Has anyone already got this or have any thoughts on it?

[Stuart]

First I've heard of it. It's available on this side of the pond as well:

http://www.amazon.com/Years-Anniversary-Collection-Charley-Patton/dp/samples/B001URRY8I/ref=dp_tracks_all_1#disc_1

N.B. There's an earlier CD with the same title.

[Stumblin]

I'm kind of tempted by the DVD. Has anyone seen this? One is a tad skint lately...

[daddystovepipe]

Got it a few months ago.
The cd's are interesting; some unusual sources for Patton's songs.
The dvd is boring - all talk and no action apart from a few seconds of Bob Brozman showing some lapslide licks.
Don't buy this for the dvd only, you'll be dissapointed.

[Gumbo]

does anyone recognise the audio on this youtube of Patton's Spoonful?
It sounds way clearer than my JSP set

[misterjones]

I did an extensive Patton comparison last year.  I might be the only one, but I found the Revenant set to be disappointing.  (It's my understanding the JSP set is merely a copy of the Revenant set.)  Not surprisingly, Yazoo was the winner for the best sound beneath the decently reduced crackles and pops.  But I thought the Definitive set was a good choice for those who would rather not have to deal with the surface noise.  I put the Definitive set on when I'm in such a mood.

The Patton clip from Youtube sounds like it might be artificially enhanced a bit, which might indicate it's from the Pristine Classsical collection.  http://www.pristineclassical.com/LargeWorks/Jazz/PABL006.php  (Such enhancements don't bother me as much as they bother others.  I just see them as a different perspective on the music that supplements other CDs.)  I did not include the Pristine Classical version in my comparison.

I wonder if the 75th Anniversary set is just a copy of something already in curculation (e.g., the Document collections).

[Gumbo]

Hey misterjones. You know what's happening!

thanks for the insight. it's a strange thing listening to music and i'm sure it's been discussed a lot here, but i think i might be caught in the middle of sometimes surface noise sometimes clarity too, so it's good to have you point that out.

[Jonas A]

I got the Robert Johnson Pristine-cd's when they were released in Nov '07. The only RJ-collection I ever listen to. Really enjoy the Patton Revenant-box, but the Pristine-edition is what I listen to. And to anyone new to Pristine Records, I strongly recommend http://www.pristineclassical.com/LargeWorks/Jazz/PABB01.php

[Jonas A]

Any YT-clips from the 75-Charlie Patton dvd? My wish for 2011 would be a Bob Brozman-dvd w Charlie Patton-songs. I'm quite surprised that an entrepreneur like Bob, doesn't cash in on his Patton-skills and insights.

[modgar]

My apologies if this is a little off topic, but is the Revenant set worth it with the included John Fahey book on Patton?  How worthwhile is the Fahey book?

I find that I enjoy the Pristine classical recordings, also.

Thanks,
Gary

[slideaway]

My wish for 2011 would be a Bob Brozman-dvd w Charlie Patton-songs. I'm quite surprised that an entrepreneur like Bob, doesn't cash in on his Patton-skills and insights.

you are not alone in that thought, it has been suggested before elsewhere, and i'm positive he read those requests on another forum..  it is indeed a mystery to some of us! maybe the subject is just too sacred to him??? its not like he is averse to making/ and appearing in dvds is it! 

[dj]

My apologies if this is a little off topic, but is the Revenant set worth it with the included John Fahey book on Patton?  How worthwhile is the Fahey book?

The Fahey book was good for its time.  But when it was written there were still undiscovered Patton records out there, so there are holes in Fahey's discussion of Patton's music.  The book has largely been rendered obsolete by the other notes to the set:  David Evans' long biographical essay and shorter articles, lyric transcriptions, melodic motifs, etc. by other authors.  In my opinion, these notes are essential, while the Fahey book is a nice throw-in. 

[misterjones]

. . . thanks for the insight. it's a strange thing listening to music and i'm sure it's been discussed a lot here, but i think i might be caught in the middle of sometimes surface noise sometimes clarity too, so it's good to have you point that out.

I'm not saying anything new or profound here, but blues CDs seem to fall into three basic categories: (1) minimal noise reduction + vibrant sound (e.g., Yazoo); (2) lots of noise reduction + flat/muted sound (e.g., Sony Legacy); and (3) somewhere in between (e.g., the Definitive set I mentioned).  I fully understand where those who prefer (2) or (3) are coming from, especially those starting out listening to old recordings.  Yazoos used to drive me crazy.  Now I prefer them.  Classical and jazz have the same issues. 

[Parlor Picker]

It's generally 1) above for me. Worst of all are recordings treated with CEDAR which end up flat, lifeless and compressed.

[dj]

Worst of all are recordings treated with CEDAR which end up flat, lifeless and compressed.

That was certainly the case 20 years ago.  But I've been listening to some Archeophone releases, such as Real Ragtime, that were CEDARed more recently, and they sound pretty darned good (for old acoustic recordings).  I'm sure the technology has advanced, and I'm also sure that whoever is doing the mastering can adjust just how much filtering is done.  The Archeophone releases have changed my mind about CEDAR and software noise reduction in general, and I now think it can be used with good results.

[Blues Vintage]

I'm thinkin of buying the Revenant set but it appears to be sold out at all stores.
But still available at the Revenant site. Anybody knows more on this?

[misterjones]

Worst of all are recordings treated with CEDAR which end up flat, lifeless and compressed.

That was certainly the case 20 years ago.  But I've been listening to some Archeophone releases, such as Real Ragtime, that were CEDARed more recently, and they sound pretty darned good (for old acoustic recordings).  I'm sure the technology has advanced, and I'm also sure that whoever is doing the mastering can adjust just how much filtering is done.  The Archeophone releases have changed my mind about CEDAR and software noise reduction in general, and I now think it can be used with good results.

I was going to mention that in my last post.  I don't know the current state of CEDAR and those who use it, but some of the early Roots N Blues issues using it were dreadful (such as "The Definitive Blind Willie McTell").  NoNoise always struck me as a bit better.  Milestone's Blind Lemon Jefferson used NoNoise, and it isn't dreadful (though the noise reduction is too much for me).  It's a good pick for those who want the noise fully squeezed out of their lemon.  I'm not aware of anyone who has fully applied noise reduction to Patton.

[Stuart]

I'm thinkin of buying the Revenant set but it appears to be sold out at all stores.
But still available at the Revenant site. Anybody knows more on this?

You might contact Revenant directly via the link on their home page.

http://www.revenantrecords.com/index.php?section=contact

What I've heard over the past several years about Revenant is sketchy at best.

[Johnm]

Hi all,
I've heard that the various versions of Charlie Patton's recordings that have been marketed commercially, in addition to having sound qualities of different types and being mastered using different processes, contain some excellent music. 
All best,
Johnm

[Stuart]

Hi all,
I've heard that the various versions of Charlie Patton's recordings that have been marketed commercially, in addition to having sound qualities of different types and being mastered using different processes, contain some excellent music. 
All best,
Johnm

Details, details...

Reminds me of something akin to what Yogi Berra once said...

[Blues Vintage]

I'm thinkin of buying the Revenant set but it appears to be sold out at all stores.
But still available at the Revenant site. Anybody knows more on this?

You might contact Revenant directly via the link on their home page.

http://www.revenantrecords.com/index.php?section=contact

What I've heard over the past several years about Revenant is sketchy at best.

I did ask Revenant about the Patton set. Now a month later I never got an answer back.

[Stuart]

Hi Harry:

Well, at least you tried. From what I've heard over the years (mostly via the Yahoo Fahey group), Revenant is in disarray. Occasionally a detail or two would surface, but nothing that shed any light on the real state of affairs.

[misterjones]

I may have noted that the JSP seems to be a copy of the Revenant set and a lot cheaper (though not as "deluxe").  A Patton bio - from the Revenant set? - is on line at http://www.paramountshome.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=49&Itemid=57

[dj]

Yep, that's the bio from the Revenant set.

[Blues Vintage]

I took a gamble and just ordered the Patton Box from Revenant records. To my suprise I got an e-mail back the next day stating that my order was accepted and was on it's way to my residence. I got it today in perfect condition. I must say the hype about the Box justified. It's simply extraordinary in every way. The enormous details are almost bizarre.

So Revenant still has a few copies for a reasonable price (150). Prices at Amazon are much higher right now.

[jostber]

Anyone knows if this 180 gr. reissue is by Yazoo?

http://www.soundstagedirect.com/charley-patton-founder-of-the-delta-blues-180-gram-vinyl-records.shtml

[doctorpep]

The product code has "YAZ" in it, but I don't know for a fact that the disc is from Yazoo. Hmm...

[Stuart]

Nothing on the Yazoo site that I could see, but it looks like it's a re-issue of the Yazoo set--perhaps not by Yazoo, but by a company that focuses on vinyl re-issues.

[misterjones]

I previously looked for indications of the source material for these (and other similar records) and found none.  If vinyl re-issues are sourced from CDs, I don't see the point.

[Blues Vintage]

The documentary of this set "Talkin' Charley Patton" can be seen right here;

[oddenda]

Nice enough piece, but a bit difficult with what we now know about Broz.

pbl 

[iwbiek]

I love the Revenant set, but the fact that the notes are incorporated into the large "album" makes them a bit unwieldy to read for long periods of time (which you'll want to do, since they're around 150 pages).  Also the small size of the text, as well as the weird, metallic, pastel fonts and background colors can be hard on the eyes.  All in all, it's big on flash but somewhat lacking in practicality, which I guess is to be expected considering it was Fahey's last great labor of love.

But yes, it's everything it's cracked up to be.  Worth every penny.

As for Revenant itself, I'm pretty sure they're defunct.  Their website now lists everything as "out of print" except for the (supposedly) joint release of Paramount's catalog with Third Man records.  Now THOSE are some impressive looking sets, at $500 a piece!  Not sure how I feel about the digital format on the USB keys in lieu of CDs though.  Not surprisingly, JSP has large chunks of Paramount's catalog available for dirt cheap.

[Mr.OMuck]

I found the Brit earring guy rather obtuse in his insistence that Patton was the Beginning of Blues, "there's nowhere else to go"... well there was Blind Lemon for one. Also the "Faulkner-izing" of the Delta and Dockery's is a little interesting in a general way but seems to take the emphasis off the individual achievements of the musicians in question.
Yes watching Brozman is difficult I agree.

[iwbiek]

I personally can't stand this rubbish about "beginning" or "founder" or "father" or "mother" of the blues.  It doesn't exist.  If you want to go chronologically in terms of commercial records, of course the very first blues records were made by the so-called "classical blues" singers, the slick female vocalists often backed by jazz combos.  The "country blues" only came later, when labels like Paramount realized how lucrative the untapped rural market was and labels like Victor and Vocalion sent field recording units to Southern cities.  Patton had influences just like everybody else.  Blind Lemon could definitely be called seminal, as he was by far the most successful country blues artist of his time, rivalled only by Blind Blake.  His lyrical motifs show up constantly in other blues artists' work from all over the US.  Even as late as the '60s folk revival, blues artists were trying to connect themselves with Lemon in some way to earn credibility.  Many years ago, I read an article by a noted blues scholar--wish I could remember who--in which he demonstrated pretty convincingly, from biographical and discographical information, that Lead Belly's travels with Blind Lemon were more than likely a total fabrication, and a common one in that period.