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Author Topic: Piano Blues: On Piano and on Guitar  (Read 4712 times)

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Offline Johnm

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Piano Blues: On Piano and on Guitar
« on: June 18, 2004, 08:35:46 AM »
Hi all,
Listening to the Roosevelt Sykes/Lee Green re-issue got me to wondering whether any of you out there play piano blues.  It's a huge repertoire, and not all of it is dauntingly technical.  Walter Davis and Leroy Carr are two great players who were not flashy technicians.  I only know a couple of present-day players of Country Blues who also double on piano--Paul Geremia is one.  A friend of mine in Seattle, Al Kaatz, has been doing it for a few years, and I know John Henley has been working on it.  It seems like a good thing to pursue, especially if you have a piano at home and took lessons as a kid.  It would be fun to play some of those great piano/guitar duets at Port Townsend.  Just a thought.
All best,
Johnm   

Offline motmot

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Re: Piano Blues: On Piano and on Guitar
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2004, 10:32:28 AM »
<... snip ...>not all of it is dauntingly technical <...snip...>
a good thing to pursue, especially if you have a piano at home and took lessons as a kid.<...snip...>

I took lessons as a kid and recently got a piano, and have been meaning to pursue it.  Any suggestions about where in the repertoire would be a good beginning?
MotMot
... but it's a slow consumption, killing me by degrees

Offline Johnm

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Re: Piano Blues: On Piano and on Guitar
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2004, 11:11:12 AM »
Hi MotMot,
I think Leroy Carr is a great place to start.  He was such a beautiful singer that listening to the tunes the number of times you have to to learn a song won't be bothersome.  Add to that the fact that you can try to pick up what Scrapper is doing at the same time, and I think you've got a great combo of things to work on.  I think a couple of Leroy's great slow blues, "Shady Lane" and "Alabama Women " would be a great place to start.  One other nice thing about Leroy is that he used the same basic ideas for many songs, so that by learning how to accompany one of his numbers, you actually learn how to accompany several.  It may be that you will need to transpose the songs to get to a key that suits your vocal range better, but that's a good thing to know how to do.  Best of luck with this, and let us know how it goes.
All best,
Johnm

Offline uncle bud

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Re: Piano Blues: On Piano and on Guitar
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2004, 11:43:44 AM »
Doing a little Weenie Juke work the other day I was listening to FAVORITE COUNTRY BLUES PIANO-GUITAR DUETS 1929-1937 on Yazoo, now seemingly out of print. It's a good record:

WILLIE HARRIS    West Side Blues
CHARLIE SPAND    Good Gal
CHARLIE SPAND    Back To The Woods Blues
LEROY CARR    Sloppy Drunk Blues
ROOSEVELT SYKES & CLIFFORD GIBSON    Tired Of Being Mistreated
SPRINGBACK JAMES    Poor Coal Passer
LEOLA MANNING    The Blues Is All Wrong
JOE EVANS    Down In Black Bottom
JOE EVANS    Shook Woman Blues
WALTER DAVIS    Sloppy Drunk Again
CRIPPLE CLARENCE LOFTON    Monkey Man Blues
BUMBLE BEE SLIM    New Orleans Stop Time
BUDDY WOODS    Don't Sell It, Don't Give it Away

Re. Sykes and Gibson. Did Sykes say he never played with Gibson or just on the tracks referred to on the new reissue? Certainly Gibson is listed here, but I don't know Roosevelt Sykes' material enough to know what I'm talking about.

Was also listening to St Louis Blues 1929 - 1933 featuring JD Short and Henry Brown. Some nice solo stuff from Brown. Fair amount of piano duets (Peetie Wheatstraw and others) with Short on this record as well, some of which is a little hard to get into I find. May have to listen harder.

Offline Rivers

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Re: Piano Blues: On Piano and on Guitar
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2004, 04:09:21 PM »
Re. pianos and guitars, I'm into that whole crossover thing right now. I'm finding piano blues and old band music are a great source of 'original' (i.e. harder to figure out where I stole them from) guitar licks if you can get your head around them. Likewise Twenties, Thirties & even Forties 'show'-type tunes. Axiomatic evidense and our own ears tell uis that our heroes copped a lot of stuff from the piano players in these bands so why shouldn't we.

Some band arrangements in old Hollywood movies are really rich, specially where they, e.g., modulate from a brash major theme to a minor blues passage. Those guys were blues dogs at heart and great musicians to boot. Chucking in some blues into a Gershwin or Berlin piano tune really lifts the music as the band can let loose for a few bars and bring it back into the main theme.

Received wisdom is that jazz came out of blues. The more I listen to early piano-based jazzy stuff the more I'm convinced it was more like parallel evolution and cross fertilisation. That sounds like it may be a cue for Richard to jump in.

Offline Richard

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Re: Piano Blues: On Piano and on Guitar
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2004, 01:59:34 PM »
Oh, yes I will jump in but not tonight as I've only just returned from the UK with a mere 14 assorted blues CDs - including some piano - that I picked up cheap in the UK - don't tell my wife :-X
(That's enough of that. Ed)

Offline Johnm

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Re: Piano Blues: On Piano and on Guitar
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2004, 10:53:20 PM »
Hi all,
With the recent project of creating covers of the Ma Rainey tune, "Don't Fish In My Sea", I got to thinking about how piano blues represents this huge body of tunes just waiting to be played, either by present-day pianists or by guitarists, creating their own versions of the tunes.  On the two versions of "Don't Fish In My Sea" posted so far (they can be found on the Back Porch) Professor Scratchy did a Blake-ish version of the tune and Frank did a Lemon-ish one.  I've taken a similar approach in the past when arranging a tune from a piano source.  Many years ago, I took a Roosevelt Sykes song called "Mistake In Life" that I thought had a Skip James sort of feel to it, and arranged it in cross-note tuning, based on Skip's style.
In other instances, I've tried more to model the guitar part after the piano version of the tune.  I took this approach to arranging Walter Davis's "I Can't See Your Face".  Of course it is impossible for the guitar to be as florid or orchestral as the piano, so it is a neat kind of arranging problem, to come up with a version that has something of the essence of the original piano accompaniment while working with the guitar's more limited means and trying to work to the guitar's strengths.  Two of the best arrangements of piano blues that I have heard done have been done by Del Rey; her versions of little Brother Montgomery's "Vicksburg Blues" and Louise Johnson's "On The Wall" are just great.
I'm wondering if any of you out there have been arranging piano blues for guitar and if so, what kinds of approaches you've been taking.  Anybody doing this?
All best,
Johnm 

Offline uncle bud

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Re: Piano Blues: On Piano and on Guitar
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2004, 07:08:12 AM »
Two of the best arrangements of piano blues that I have heard done have been done by Del Rey; her versions of little Brother Montgomery's "Vicksburg Blues" and Louise Johnson's "On The Wall" are just great.

Aside from my thus far pathetic attempts at Don't Fish, I haven't done this kind of thing really, but boy I agree about Del's Vicksburg Blues and On the Wall. Doesn't she play Vicksburg in F as well? Some crazy finger-twisting thing anyway...  The Deacon's not around much these days but I believe he's worked on her arrangement of Vicksburg and could shed some light...

Offline Johnm

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Re: Piano Blues: On Piano and on Guitar
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2004, 09:41:26 AM »
I'm not sure about "Vicksburg Blues" because it is a while since I have seen Del play it, Andrew, but I think you are right.  I know Del does a couple of tunes in a tuning of her own invention, FADGBE, used to play in F, so that you don't have to fret the low root of the F chord on the sixth string.  She may do "Vicksburg" in that tuning. 
Whoops, as I'm writing this, I remember that I have seen African guitarists on a Vestapol video use the same tuning but to play in C.  As far as I know, Del is the only person to use it to play in F.
All best,
Johnm

Offline GhostRider

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Re: Piano Blues: On Piano and on Guitar
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2004, 10:21:49 AM »
Ladies and Gentlemen:

I've just started to try and figure out "Walking Cross the Country" by Blind Blake (Mary Flower gave a good start at PT). On the same record is a two part piano-guitar piece Hookworm Blues/Slippery Rag (both the same) by Blake and a piano player Alex Robinson, done in 1929.

I'm more used to piano-guitar duets in the Carr-Blackwell or BBBroonzy '30's style where the piano does most of the work with the guitar doing single string-filler stuff. Blake on Hookworm Blues takes the lead part for most of the tune and really rocks it out (man, that guy could play). MotMot, you might want to try this one out as the piano is mostly backup and there's no singing! (although the pace is right spritely).

BTW, we do have a piano player among us. I had the opportunity to try a few piano-guitar duets with the lovely Rosalyn Powell at PT, who happens to be a Weenie. She sounded great. With a little work, she'll have a career as a Weenie accompanist.

That Buddy Woods selection that UB mentioned, "Don't Sell It, Don't Give it Away" might be my favorite duet, along with "No Special Rider" by Little Brother Montgomery. I've always wanted to figure out the piano part of this latter song to play on guitar.

Until Judgement Day,
Alex


Offline Prof Scratchy

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Re: Piano Blues: On Piano and on Guitar
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2004, 10:32:53 AM »
Over the past year I've been trying to learn a bit of piano - it's always been my ambition to knock out tunes by Jimmy Yancey,? Big Maceo, Peetie Wheatstraw and Leroy Carr (in that order). I'll post an example of how I've getting on in Back Porch.....be very kind!!!
« Last Edit: April 17, 2005, 06:06:38 PM by Johnm »

mississippijohnhurt1928

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Re: Piano Blues: On Piano and on Guitar
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2007, 05:13:45 PM »
I'm 13 and I taught myself blues piano you can hear me at:

www.myspace.com/boogirebop

Offline Coyote Slim

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Re: Piano Blues: On Piano and on Guitar
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2007, 08:07:19 PM »
Some of my favorite song-writers are my fellow Slims, Memphis and Sunnyland, as well Roosevelt Sykes and Leroy.

 I arranged "Life is Like That" by Memphis Slim for guitar.  I play it in G in Spanish tuning, with kind of a "Memphis Minnie" style intro and lots of bass runs as well as some slide.

I took "Every Time I get to Drinkin'" by Sunnyland, and arranged it in standard E-position, but usually capoed up to G.  I mostly use a typical boogie shuffle for the rhythm, but punctuated with a lot of slide (I like playing slide in standard).

 I also play "Mean Mistreater," by Leroy Carr, patterned on a version Johnny Shines played but with some Scrapper Blackwell-style licks thrown in.

I also know all the words to "Jailbait" by Roosevelt Sykes but so far have not found an arrangement that I've liked.
Puttin' on my Carrhartts, I gotta work out in the field.

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Offline MTJ3

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Re: Piano Blues: On Piano and on Guitar
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2007, 09:46:50 AM »
If you're relatively new to blues piano, Scrapper Blackwell's "Morning Mail Blues" and "Blues That Make Me Cry" would be a good place to start, as they are not, as Johnm so elegantly put it, dauntingly technical.  Well over 20 years ago, Eric Kriss did a couple of books of transcriptions of blues piano--Six Blues Roots Pianists and Barrelhouse and Boogie Piano.  I don't know if those are still in print.

Offline banjochris

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Re: Piano Blues: On Piano and on Guitar
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2007, 10:53:49 AM »
Well over 20 years ago, Eric Kriss did a couple of books of transcriptions of blues piano--Six Blues Roots Pianists and Barrelhouse and Boogie Piano.  I don't know if those are still in print.

Second one is, first one isn't I believe. My public library has the OOP one, yours might too. He also did a Beginning Blues Piano book that's in print.
Chris

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