Topic: Blind Willie McTell's Guitar Style--Queries and Tips

[poney_boy]

Do you need tips/pointers on learning Georgia blues songs or do you have anything you would like to contribute?  Need questions answered, post 'em here!!!

Does anyone know the basic chord structure to McTell's Murder's Home or Dyin' Crapshooter's Blues?

[frankie]

Does anyone know the basic chord structure to McTell's Murder's Home or Dyin' Crapshooter's Blues?

The only version of Murderer's Home that I have is from BWM's LoC sessions (isn't Lomax amazingly patronizing?).  During those recordings, it sounds to me like McTell is tuned at C# or D - not down to B.  Sounds to me like he plays MH in the A position.  The various versions of Dyin' Crapshooters' Blues that I have all sound like they're played out of A minor (relative to his tuning).  I've never sat down and worked out the chords, so that might be a fun project for the weekend if I can scare up some time...

[frankie]

During those recordings, it sounds to me like McTell is tuned at C# or D - not down to B. Sounds to me like he plays MH in the A position. The various versions of Dyin' Crapshooters' Blues that I have all sound like they're played out of A minor (relative to his tuning).

I was wrong, wrong, wrong!

For some reason, the combination of the 12-string and the sound on these recordings makes a real challenge for me.  I was never quite happy with Murderer's Home in A - seemed like there was a real low note falling in there (the tonic), that was also played over the IV chord.  Then whammo!  He's tuned low, to A, and playing out of Drop D.  That would put the low string at G.  He uses some interesting shapes, notably a D7 moved up to the 5th fret.  It sounds nothing at all like the other Drop D songs from him that I'm familiar with.  Neat.

Dying Crapshooter's Blues plays much better out of D minor.  The chords being D minor, A7 and E7 with one brief appearance of an F diminished in the opening section.  There are some nice moments toward the end that briefly move the key to the relative major (F).  I haven't really spent too much time with it specifically, but could try to post some chords later.

As an aside, I always heard Chainey in C position, but after listening again, I think it's in Vestapol tuning - tuned down to G.  That's the second time that vestapol has thrown me for a loop like that, the first being Melvin Dupree's playing on Rip Van Winkle Blues.

Seems like that would make it Blind Willie McTell's only tune played in vestapol without a slide...

The other tunes on the 1940 sessions are pretty straightforward - Boll Weevil in G, Will Fox in C, King Edward Blues in C, religious material in vestapol w/slide, Delia in C, Kill it Kid in G.  The little "blues for dummies" overview that he demonstrates for Lomax includes a bunch of riffs played in C and E.  I think these are my favorite Blind Willie McTell recordings.

[waxwing]

So you're figuring he was tuned to standard at A for the whole session, tuning down for Drop 'G' and Vestapol (at G)? Thanks for the tip, Frank. Man, I wonder how loose the Sovereign will get down there? If  it's too loose I can always bump Mr. McTell up to B (where I have been keeping the Sov) with Transcribe!, I guess. I'll go thru some of the songs I know and see if I can work out some of the other sessions. Maybe we can work up a list of tunings for his various sessions over the years. Cool.
All for now.
John C.

[frankie]

So you're figuring he was tuned to standard at A for the whole session, tuning down for Drop 'G' and Vestapol (at G)?

Yup - that's what it sounds like to me.

[uncle bud]

I'll go thru some of the songs I know and see if I can work out some of the other sessions. Maybe we can work up a list of tunings for his various sessions over the years. Cool.

Excellent idea, waxy. I think more of the type of thing like Frank did with his Blind Lemon table and JohnM did with Papa Charlie Jackson should be a mission of Weenie Campbell actually.

[uncle bud]

During those recordings, it sounds to me like McTell is tuned at C# or D - not down to B. Sounds to me like he plays MH in the A position. The various versions of Dyin' Crapshooters' Blues that I have all sound like they're played out of A minor (relative to his tuning).

I was wrong, wrong, wrong!

For some reason, the combination of the 12-string and the sound on these recordings makes a real challenge for me.  I was never quite happy with Murderer's Home in A - seemed like there was a real low note falling in there (the tonic), that was also played over the IV chord.  Then whammo!  He's tuned low, to A, and playing out of Drop D.  That would put the low string at G.  He uses some interesting shapes, notably a D7 moved up to the 5th fret.  It sounds nothing at all like the other Drop D songs from him that I'm familiar with.  Neat.

Dying Crapshooter's Blues plays much better out of D minor.  The chords being D minor, A7 and E7 with one brief appearance of an F diminished in the opening section.  There are some nice moments toward the end that briefly move the key to the relative major (F).  I haven't really spent too much time with it specifically, but could try to post some chords later.

As an aside, I always heard Chainey in C position, but after listening again, I think it's in Vestapol tuning - tuned down to G.  That's the second time that vestapol has thrown me for a loop like that, the first being Melvin Dupree's playing on Rip Van Winkle Blues.

Seems like that would make it Blind Willie McTell's only tune played in vestapol without a slide...

The other tunes on the 1940 sessions are pretty straightforward - Boll Weevil in G, Will Fox in C, King Edward Blues in C, religious material in vestapol w/slide, Delia in C, Kill it Kid in G.  The little "blues for dummies" overview that he demonstrates for Lomax includes a bunch of riffs played in C and E.  I think these are my favorite Blind Willie McTell recordings.

I am always surprised when listening to the L of C recordings at how different they are from his earlier recordings: no overlap that comes to mind immediately. Given that he was sitting down with Lomax to play some sort of representative repertoire I find it mysterious that none of the early classics make it into the session. I suppose Lomax is prompting him for the kind of music he is interested in (ballads and traditional tunes etc). There is certainly overlap between LoC and later sessions for Atlantic and the final recordings. But LoC is almost like a turning point repertoire-wise. I'm certainly not complaining that all the material is different, just expressing surprise.

It's great stuff I agree (as long as you try and block out Lomax). I Got to Cross the River Jordan is one of my favorite slide tunes ever. Delia, Crapshooter, Murderer's Home, King Edward Blues - all just great. Re. "Chainey": I'd have to listen again, but it somehow reminds me of his version of Pinetop Boogie Woogie from the Atlantic sessions. I may be way off base though...

[frankie]

Given that he was sitting down with Lomax to play some sort of representative repertoire I find it mysterious that none of the early classics make it into the session. I suppose Lomax is prompting him for the kind of music he is interested in (ballads and traditional tunes etc).

Lomax was most certainly prompting him for tunes - that whole embarrassing "complaining songs" riff ought to be convincing on that point.? Is it possible that BWM's professional demeanor made Lomax skeptical of his ability to render ballads or folk material?? McTell certainly seems to accurately read what Lomax was after, even if he was unwilling to honor all of his requests.? The intro to Murderer's Home seems strange to me, when he says "back in the days of old, when the blues started being original" - almost like McTell is deliberately trying to pass of a recent composition as a tune with antiquated origins...? a folk song!? Did you notice the way he rhapsodizes working in the fields, picking cotton and singing when he introduces some of the spirituals?? It's almost as if he can't help but present himself as an entertainer, deliberately creating an air of nostalgia.? Of course, it's just as likely that he's waxing nostalgic himself - maybe it's just me, but I see McTell as someone who was a seasoned professional entertainer and keenly aware of the expectations of his audience.? I don't think he was being disingenuous, but he certainly knew how to use the sizzle to sell the steak!

Re. "Chainey": I'd have to listen again, but it somehow reminds me of his version of Pinetop Boogie Woogie from the Atlantic sessions. I may be way off base though...

I think you're right - some similarities there.? Honestly, I'm not nearly familiar enough with McTell's music to say that Chainey is his only tune in vestapol played w/o a slide.? I'm just starting now to really put my ear to it all.? I've always "heard" Pinetop's Boogie Woogie in C (never really worked it out, though), but at this point it wouldn't surprise me at all to find I was wrong.

[uncle bud]

It's almost as if he can't help but present himself as an entertainer, deliberately creating an air of nostalgia.  Of course, it's just as likely that he's waxing nostalgic himself - maybe it's just me, but I see McTell as someone who was a seasoned professional entertainer and keenly aware of the expectations of his audience.  I don't think he was being disingenuous, but he certainly knew how to use the sizzle to sell the steak!

Yes, each time I listen I'm struck by how aware McTell seems of the context, what Lomax represents and what spin he should use, whereas Lomax sometimes seems to be trying to fit a square peg into a round hole to suit his research preferences.

[banjochris]

Seems like that would make it Blind Willie McTell's only tune played in vestapol without a slide...

Hey folks -- this is my first post on the board, though I've been lurking for a while; there's so much good stuff on here I finally prodded my lazy self into joining.

I agree that Pinetop's Boogie Woogie is probably in vestapol, though playing the root of the IV chord's a little awkward. I'm fairly certain that McTell plays "My Baby's Gone" and the "B&O" tunes in that tuning, as well.
Chris

[frankie]

I agree that Pinetop's Boogie Woogie is probably in vestapol, though playing the root of the IV chord's a little awkward. I'm fairly certain that McTell plays "My Baby's Gone" and the "B&O" tunes in that tuning, as well.

Welcome to the board, Chris!

Even after listening to it a couple of times, I'm still on the fence about Pinetop's Boogie Woogie.? Seems like the Atlanta 12-string sessions are pitched even lower than the LoC sessions.? Sounds like it's about a whole step lower - jeez!

My Baby's Gone and B&O both sound to me to be played out of G position, standard tuning, but I can see how some of the licks can be played in either tuning/position.? Check out the II chord in My Baby's Gone (during one of the breaks).? It's decidedly A7-sounding, rather than any II chord you'd get in vestapol.? The double courses and low pitch make it a real pain to suss out some of this stuff.

I'll go back tonight, guitar in hand and check, though.

[frankie]

I was listening closely to Dyin' Crapshooter's Blues last night, and one interesting thing that stood out was that the I chord is a D minor, which McTell plays in the 1st position.  He alternates between the 6th string and a fat brush on the treble strings, fretting the 6th string at the 1st fret.  That makes the bass note of the chord the minor 3rd (F).  If he wasn't tuned so low, it would probably give the tune a weirder sound than it does - I only really noticed it after listening closely a few times.

[uncle bud]

I was listening closely to Dyin' Crapshooter's Blues last night, and one interesting thing that stood out was that the I chord is a D minor, which McTell plays in the 1st position.? He alternates between the 6th string and a fat brush on the treble strings, fretting the 6th string at the 1st fret.? That makes the bass note of the chord the minor 3rd (F).? If he wasn't tuned so low, it would probably give the tune a weirder sound than it does - I only really noticed it after listening closely a few times.

Listened to this myself tonight and you're right, Frank. I checked the Last Session CD and the F bass is there too. It sounds really nice, the inversion gives it a subtle harmonic difference from a regular, big fat ol' Dm chord.

[frankie]

Re:  Pinetop's Boogie Woogie - played around with this last night and it seems to me to be in G, standard.  If I can find a string to use as an octave on the third course of my 12-string, I'll post a little clip (I prefer a unison third course, generally).

[banjochris]

My Baby's Gone and B&O both sound to me to be played out of G position, standard tuning, but I can see how some of the licks can be played in either tuning/position.

Going back and listening, I think you're right. What fooled me is just how far down he's tuned -- My Baby's Gone is all the way down to C, IIRC. I got a bee in my bonnet a couple of nights ago and went through the first 3 CDs of the JSP set and wrote down the position and absolute key of each piece -- I'll try to post that on here tomorrow, because there are a few that will prompt some discussion, methinks. The really hard part is trying to figure out what position Curley Weaver's playing out of -- on a few of the tunes he's almost inaudible, and on the ones where you can hear him what he's doing dovetails so nicely with McTell's playing it's often hard to tell.

I've listened to these songs for years, but never sat down and figured out the actual keys for so many of them. I was surprised how far down McTell tunes; he's down just three frets or so (or less) until the Broke Down Engine session, and after that he really cranks the strings down. Makes me wonder if he got tired of wearing out guitars.
Chris