Topic: Miller's Breakdown

[Old Man Ned]

Following on from yesterday, "Fuzzy Rag" I'm hearing in C and not taking Riley Puckett's advice to 'listen to the runs carefully", I'm just saying the run he plays from 2:41 is based around a C7 chord at the neck utilising the 5th, 4th, 3rd strings and 2nd string first fret at the highest point of the run. Most of the other notes in the run I'm hearing are out of the C7 scale.
 
Arthur Weston's "Long Tall Woman" I'm hearing in E standard with the opening phrase of his solo, from 1:37--1:43 using the 4th and 5th strings open and at the 2nd fret and the 6th fret bent at the 3rd fret and open. Hope that's not too vague an answer....

 
 

[Pan]

Hi all

I'll give a try:

The questions on "T. P. Railer" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did Black Diamond use to play the song?

I?ll agree with the professor and Old Man Ned on A position standard tuning.

   * Where did he fret the fill he plays from :41--:43?

This one is a bit tricky, because in my ears the fill could be played either from the ?long A? position on the 1st and 2nd frets; or the ?F? shape out of the 5th fret. I must be missing a clue, or I?ve got the playing position/tuning alltogether wrong?

The questions on "Fuzzy Rag" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did Riley Puckett use to play the song?

Again, agreed with the prof, and Old Man Ned.

   * Where did Riley Puckett fret the run he plays from 2:41--2:43?

I?m hearing him playing a run from the ?long A? position, starting with the quarter note open 5th string; then eighth notes as follows; the long A chord X-(0)-2-2-2-5; then the 5th string 3rd fret; 5th string 4th fret: 4th string 2nd fret; 4th string 3rd fret; 4th string 4th fret; 3rd string 2nd fret, 3rd string 3rd fret; 3rd string 4th fret; back to 3rd string 3rd fret; and to 3rd string 2nd fret; 4th string 4th fret; then the open 4th string; then the 5th string 4th fret; and then the 5th string 5th fret, which is the root of the following D7 chord, played with a C7 shape two frets higher on the 3rd fret.

The questions on "Long Tall Woman" is:
   * What playing position/tuning did Arthur Weston use to play the song?

Here I disagree with the prof and Old Man Ned. At first I too thought, that he would be playing in E position, since he plays the open root note quite a lot. However, I?m hearing him playing a lower V note on the 6th string occasionally, under the  the chords played at around 1:20. This would rule out E position, so I?m guessing A position standard tuning, tuned really low . This would give the I bass note on the open 5th string, and the V note on the open 6th string. Or I?m horribly wrong, and this is some kind of an open tuning!

   * Where did Arthur Weston fret the opening phrase of his solo, from 1:37--1:43?

A triplet with the open 3rd string, then the 4th string 4th fret, then back to the open 3rd string; then two eighth notes of open 3rd string; then again the triplet with the open 3rd string, then the 4th string 4th fret; then a triplet with a dotted eighth note with the 3rd string 2nd fret, the a sixteenth note on the 2nd string 2nd fret, and back to an eighth note on 3rd string 2nd fret;  Then two eighth notes on the 33rd string 3rd fret; then two eighth notes on the 5th string 3rd fret, bent slightly; then a triplet with the open 5th string, the 6th string 3rd fret, and the 6th string 5t fret; then a 3rdless A chord X-0-2-2-X-X.

Cheers, and get well soon, professor!

Pan

[Johnm]

Hi all,
It appears that everyone who intended to respond to the Black Diamond, Riley Puckett and Arthur Weston puzzlers has done so, so I will post the answers.

For Black Diamond's "T. P. Railer":
   * His playing position/tuning was A position in standard tuning as everyone had it--well done!
   * He played the fill from :41--:43 as follows: The fill is in the seventh bar of the form.  He begins on the + of beat one, playing the first fret of the second string.  On 2 +, he goes from the second fret of the second string to the fifth fret of the first string, in the "long A" position.  On 3 +, he goes from the third fret of the first string to the open first string.  On 4 +, he goes from the bent fourth fret of the second string to the open first string, and on beat 5 (it is a five-beat measure), he plays a triplet, getting the first two notes  by pulling off from the third to the second fret on the second string, and hitting the third note of the triplet on the open fifth string, which he re-hits for the downbeat of the eighth measure. 

For Riley Puckett's "Fuzzy Rag":
   * His playing position was C position in standard tuning as everyone had it--well done!
   * The run he played from 2:41--2:43 was fretted as follows:  The run is played over an A chord (relative to his pitch/capo placement), starting in the first bar of the form.  On 1 +, he hits the open fifth string followed by an upward brush of the second fret of the second string and the fifth fret of the first string.  On 2 +, he does a downward brush of the second fret of the second string and the fifth fret of the first string, followed by the third fret of the fifth string.  On 3 +, he goes from the fourth fret of the fifth string to the second fret of the fourth string.  On 4 +, he goes from the third fret of the fourth string to the fourth fret of the fourth string.  On 1 + of the second measure, he goes from the second fret of the third string to the third fret of the third string.  On 2 + of that measure, he goes from the fourth fret of the third string back to the third fret of the third string.  On 3 + of that measure, he goes from the second fret of the third string to the fourth fret of the fourth string, and on 4 +, he goes from the open fourth string to the fourth fret of the fifth string.  What a great, twisty run!  It's especially cool because he had played a different run, exactly the same way, every time through the form at the same place, up to that point.  It's neat to hear a player bring in variations so near the end of a rendition.

For Arthur Weston's "Long Tall Woman":
   * His playing position/tuning was Spanish tuning.  A couple of factors help to identify the tuning by its sound:  At :16, he goes from a minor third to a major third, crossing strings, and hitting the major third on an open string which can be identified by its tonal quality.  From :32--:38, in the ninth and tenth bars of the form, he goes from a V chord to a IV chord and both chords are obviously being voiced exactly the same way, just moving the position down the neck two frets.  This could be done playing in E position standard tuning or A position standard tuning, but it would be non-intuitive and kind of awkward.  In Spanish, he is just moving a barre down from the seventh fret to the fifth fret.
   * Arthur Weston played the opening of his solo, from 1:37--1:43 as follows:  He opens his solo on the fourth beat of the twelfth bar of the form, playing a triplet going from the third fret of the fourth string to the open fourth string and back to the third fret of the fourth string.  On 1 + of the first measure of the solo, he hits the third fret of the fourth string twice.  On beat 2 , he repeats the pick-up triplet he played, going from the third fret of the fourth string to the open fourth string and back to the third fret of the fourth string.  On 3 +, he hits the open fourth string twice.  On beat 4, he plays a triplet, going from the open fourth string to the third fret of the fourth string and then the fourth fret of the fourth string.  On beat 1 of the next measure he plays a triplet, going from the fifth fret of the fourth string to the open second string and then back to the fifth fret of the fourth string.  On beat 2, he plays another triplet, getting the first two notes by sliding from the fifth to the third fret on the fourth string and then hitting the open third string for the final note of the triplet.  On 3 +, he hits a bent third fret of the fifth string twice, and on beat 4, he plays a triplet, going from the open fifth string to the third fret of the sixth string, and then returning to the open fifth string.  On 1 + of the third bar of the form he hits the open third string twice.  It's a terrific opening break to Arthur Weston's solo.  If you're able to get hold of his Testament CD, it is really worth the search, with terrific pieces in Spanish, E position, standard tuning and EAEGBE tunings, as well as some very strong duets with Big Joe Williams.

Thanks to Prof Scratchy, Old Man Ned and Pan for participating in the puzzlers, and I hope folks enjoyed the songs.  I'd encourage more folks to participate in solving the puzzlers.  Judging by the number of hits in the thread, way more people are lurking than are participating, and I think you learn more by trying to make the identifications than by just waiting for the answers.  Okay, I'm off my soapbox.  I'll try to find some more puzzlers soon.

All best,
Johnm     

[Old Man Ned]

I would definitely say that you learn more by having a go at the tunes rather than waiting for the answer.  Though it may not be obvious from some of the answers I provide, I feel my hearing of tunes has improved a lot since I started trying to answer the questions.  I mean, what's the worst that's going to happen? You'll get something wrong,..... so what? Eventually you start to hear things better and that's got to be a bonus.

Cheers, Ned

[Pan]

I would definitely say that you learn more by having a go at the tunes rather than waiting for the answer.  Though it may not be obvious from some of the answers I provide, I feel my hearing of tunes has improved a lot since I started trying to answer the questions.  I mean, what's the worst that's going to happen? You'll get something wrong,..... so what? Eventually you start to hear things better and that's got to be a bonus.

Cheers, Ned

I'll second that!

Cheers

Pan

[David Kaatz]

I would definitely say that you learn more by having a go at the tunes rather than waiting for the answer.  Though it may not be obvious from some of the answers I provide, I feel my hearing of tunes has improved a lot since I started trying to answer the questions.  I mean, what's the worst that's going to happen? You'll get something wrong,..... so what? Eventually you start to hear things better and that's got to be a bonus.

Cheers, Ned

Right, and it is no shame to learn a song in the wrong tuning or position. If you have learned it, you have gained. And maybe made it more your own.
D

[Johnm]

Hi all,
I have some more puzzlers for anyone who is interested.  The first is from Willie Ford, and is his "Santa Field Blues".  Here is his rendition:



INTRO

Hey, hey, on the Santa Field
Hey, hey, on the Santa Field
When I leave the Southern, said I'm goin' on the Santa Field

"Operator, train must I ride?
Operator, train must I ride?"
"Don't make no difference, yes, since you can satisfy."

I'm sing this song, then I ain't gonna sing no more
Gonna sing this song, then I ain't gonna sing no more
Says, my babe done called me, and I swear I done got to go

Ain't gon' tell nobody what the Santa Fe has done for me
Ain't gonna tell nobody what the Santa Fe has done for me
Took away my good girl and come and got my used-to-be

Shine on, silver moon, shine on
Shine on, silver moon, shine on
Says, I know you'll be shinin' when I'm dead and gone

On the mountain, tried to keep my way
On the mountain, tried to keep my way
Said, the rocks and the gravel whupped me all in my face

I'm gwine, I'm gwine, said to wear you off my mind
I'm gwine, I'm gwine for to wear you off my mind
It keeps me worried and bothered all the time

If I had me, a Heaven of my own
If I had me, Heaven of my own
These brown-skinned women'd be settin' all around my throne

Got the same old fireman, the same old engineer
Got the same old fireman, the same old engineer
They took my babe, and they left me standing here

Edited 12/12 to pick up correction from davek
Edited 12/15 to pick up corrections from banjochris


The questions on "Santa Field Blues" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did Willie Ford use to play the song?
   * Where did Willie Ford fret the signature lick with which he opens the song?

The second puzzler is John Dudley's "Cool Water Blues".  Here it is:



Oh, and I asked her for water and she gave me gasoline
I asked her for water, gave me gasoline
And I asked her for water, and she gave me gasoline, Lord, Lordy Lord

Cryin' Lord, now, and I wonder will I, ever get back home (Spoken:  It's worryin' me some!)
Cryin', Lord, I wonder, will I ever get back home, Lord, Lordy Lord

I asked the conductor, "Can I ride that blind?" (Spoken:  I was broke.)
"Son, buy your ticket, buy your ticket, 'cause this train ain't none of mine.
Son, buy your ticket, train ain't none of mine.
Better buy your ticket, buy your ticket, 'cause the train ain't none of mine, Lord, Lordy Lord."

I'm gon' sing this verse, now, ain't gon' sing no more
Just to keep outa trouble, well now I better go, Lord, Lordy Lord

The questions on "Cool Water Blues" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did John Dudley use to play the song?
   * Where is John Dudley fretting in the bass the note he hits under the first line of each of his verses?

The third puzzler is Sonny Scott's "Try Me Man Blues".  Here it is:



INTRO

Uh, Cherry Cola mama, here come your Try Me man
Cherry Cola mama, here come your Try Me man
I got a bucket of raspberries and a Orange Crush in my hand

Take me in your house, baby, give me some of your Cherry Cola syrup
Now, take me in your house, baby, and give me some of your Cherry Cola syrup
I'll just pour it in my iced Try Me, and see which one is the worst

Lord, I drink the Cherry Cola at a Try Me stand
Lord, I drink the Cherry Cola at a Try Me stand
Lord, I ain't crazy 'bout no Cherry Cola, because I'm a Try Me man

Some people carry Cherry Colas on that trip in the woods
Some people carry Cherry Colas on that trip in the woods
But I like our drink, partner, because they will do your body good

CODA

The questions on "Try Me Man Blues" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did Sonny Scott use to play the song?
   *  Where did Sonny Scott fret his IV7 chord in his opening solo?
   * Where did Sonny Scott fret the thumb roll he played in the bass at 2:29--2:32?

Please use only your ears and your instruments to arrive at your answers, and please don't post any answers before 8:00 AM on Thursday, December 8.  It is certainly not required or expected that people respond to every question.  It's fine to answer only one question if you wish, or as many as you'd care to answer.  Thanks for your participation and I hope you enjoy the songs.
All best,
Johnm 

[David Kaatz]

Willie Ford
Standard tuning, E position
Fretting an E chord and laying down the ring finger to fret the 2nd fret, of the third
(G) string. Rocking back and forth with that action while strumming. There may sometimes
be a hammer-on to from the open 3rd string to the 1st fret while striking the E chord
Approximate fingering below.
0 x x x x
0 0 2 0 x
1 1 2 1 1
2 2 2 2 2
2 2 x x 2
0 x x x x

John Dudley
Standard tuning, E position
Fretting the 4th fret of the 5th (A) string as he plays a IV chord at the start of each
verse.

Sonny Scott
Drop D tuning, tuned up or capoed up 1 fret
Playing in A position
IV chord played in the standard D7 position at the nut:
2
1
2
0
x
x

Thumb roll played from 4th fret of 6th string to open 4th string, then 4th fret of 6th
string to open 6th and 5th strings together.

cool songs, thanks John.

Dave

[Old Man Ned]

I'm with DaveK on the Willie Ford and John Dudley tunes, both in E standard. Willie Ford's fretting of the signature lick is pretty much what I was thinking.  Also, have John Dudley's fretting of the bass note as a C# on the 5th string.

Sonny Scott's "Try Me Man Blues" though I have out of A standard.  The thumb roll I'm just hearing the 6th string at the 2nd fret to the open 5th string.

[Johnm]

Hi all,
Any other takers on the Willie Ford, John Dudley and Sonny Scott puzzlers.  Come one, come all!  Pick just one question or song if you wish.
All best,
Johnm

[eric]

I'm going to attempt to maintain my unblemished record of wrong answers by proposing E standard position for Cool Drink of Water.

[joe paul]

For the Sonny Scott, I hear him playing in A, standard tuning, tuned or capoed up a fret.
In the opening part, I think he plays the IV, the D chord 4-2-3-2 and the bass roll sounds to me like sliding the 6th string first to second fret, hitting the open 4th string, a little strum on the D chord, then first to second fret of the the 6th string and open 5th, with a strum above. I may be imagining things, but he could be hinting at the major and then 7th chord, rocking from one to the other. (now to hide my head in my hands and wait for the right answer!)

Thanks for the great songs John ! 

[blueshome]

Hoping for more success than recently, having guitar to hand helps!

Playing positions

Willie Ford - Cross Note
John Dudley - E standard  - Why didn't Lomax record more of him??
Mr.Scott - A standard

[Johnm]

Hi all,
It looks as though all who intended to respond to the Willie Ford, John Dudley and Sonny Scott puzzlers have done so by now, so I'll post the answers.

For Willie Ford's "Santa Field Blues":
   * His playing position/tuning for the song was E position in standard tuning.  His signature lick could have been played out of E position, standard tuning, cross-note or EAEGBE tuning, but what he plays over his V chord could only be played out of E position standard tuning because he alternates his bass from the V note on the fifth string up to the minor third of the V chord on the fourth string, and the minor third of the V chord is the bVII note of the scale.  In E position, standard tuning, that bVII note of the scale is the open fourth string, whereas in cross-note and EAEGBE tunings, the fourth string is tuned to a I note.
   * For his signature lick, Willie Ford hit his first and third beats of the measure on the second fret of the fourth string with his thumb.  On beat two, he brushed the open third and second strings, doing a grace note hammer to the first fret of the third string with his index finger.  On beat four, he thumb-brushed the open second string and the third string at the second fret, fretting it with his ring finger, then quickly pulling off to the index finger at the first fret of the third string. He intersperses index finger brush strokes on the the open first and second strings on the off beats of the signature lick.  This is very close to what Dave described.

For John Dudley's "Cool Water Blues":
   * His playing position was E position in standard tuning, as all who responded had it--well done!
   * In the first line of each verse, John Dudley fretted the fourth fret of the fifth string, as Dave and Old Man Ned had it--well done!

I think Phil's question as to why Lomax didn't record more titles by John Dudley is a good one.  Everything I've heard that Dudley recorded was stellar.  This song is a cover of Tommy Johnson's "Cool Drink of Water Blues", and it just seems spectacular to me, in many ways stronger and with more "juice" than Tommy Johnson's own version of the song.  What heavy time--whew!  Listen to the fill he plays from :21--:27; it doesn't get much better than that.

For Sonny Scott's "Try Me Man Blues":
   * His playing position was A position in standard tuning.  Since Sonny Scott never hits a D note lower in pitch than the open fourth string, there doesn't appear to be any reason to think he was playing in dropped-D tuning.
   * Sonny Scott's IV7 chord in his opening solo is a regular old D7 at the base of the neck on the first three strings, going form the third to the first string, 2-1-2.
   * The thumb roll Sonny Scott hits in the bass from 2:29-2:32 is from the second fret of the sixth string to the open fifth string, as Old Man Ned and Joe Paul had it.  Dave had the same notes, but put the song in dropped-D tuning, and the song could certainly be played there if one wanted to access a low root for the IV chord.

I found the lyrics to this song fascinating.  Every so often, you hear an old Blues lyric, and it becomes apparent from the context that some bygone product name is being cited in the lyrics.  I thought this was the case with Try Me, and so I did a Google search for Try Me soft drink and came up with the following link for any of you who might be interested:  http://www.try-me.org/history .  Another example of this sort of thing is in Skip James' "Drunken Spree", when he sings "Hand me down my Jubilee and all my dirty clothes".  Turns out Jubilee was a laundry detergent (and may still be).

Thanks to all who participated and it's neat to see more folks participating.  Thanks for joining in!  I hope you enjoyed the songs, and I will look for more puzzlers to post soon.

All best,
Johnm   

[Johnm]

Hi all,
I've been trying to transcribe Willie Ford's lyrics to "Santa Field Blues", at:  http://weeniecampbell.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=10188.msg99441#msg99441 , and I'm not sure about a couple of places and would really appreciate some help if anyone cares to give the song a listen.  Thanks very much for any help.
All best,
Johnm