Topic: Miller's Breakdown

[David Kaatz]

For Rocky Mountain, I think that Brewer is in Vestapol (D) tuning, in the approximate key of E.

The run from 0:14 is triplets, starts with slides into the third fret of the third string. Each of the first 5 notes are slid.
    |        |       |        |
D  x
A  x
F#3 3 3 3 3 1   
D  x                3 0 3 0    0
A  x                            3
D  x

From 3:06 the bass run is pickup and triplets played on the 5th and 4th strings, pickup is 3rd fret 5th string, first triplet is on the 3rd fret 5th string, open 4th, 3nd fret 5th string, next triplet is 2nd fret 5th string, open 4th, 2nd fret 5th string, next triplet is 1st fret 5th string, open 4th, 1st fret 5th, then open 5th string on the last beat of the phrase.

Dave

[Johnm]

Hi all,
It seems as though there has been enough time for people to respond who wished to, so I'll post the answers to the most recent puzzlers. 
For Andrew Dunham's "Hattie Mae":
   * Playing position was A in standard tuning, as I think most of you ended up selecting.  Well done!
   * The chord position that Andrew Dunham kept resolving to in his rendition, his I chord of choice was an A diminished triad, fretted at 5-4-5 on the top three strings, moving from the third string to the first string.  Dunham's left hand, the chord names and functions are exactly as Frank had them in his post.  Way to parse it, Frank, your explanation was so clear that it makes my job at this stage that much easier!

I agree with Chris that the sound Dunham gets on the song very much channels a sort of Walter Davis sound, but I suspect that Dunham's idea for his left hand move, really the only thing he does in the left hand in the whole song, moving the same shape from the ninth fret to the seventh fret and then to the fifth fret, derives from Robert Johnson, and Johnson's solo on "Kind Hearted Woman Blues".  Johnson did have a crucial difference from Dunham in his execution of the idea:  when he got to the fifth fret, Johnson gave up the second string altogether and bent the third string very heavily, almost to a major third.  Dunham, by moving the shape down intact and keeping it at the fifth fret ended up with an altogether eerier sound, that diminished triad as a point of resolution.  We know that Johnson spent some time with several musicians who ended up in and around Detroit, Sampson Pittman, Calvin Frazier and Willie Blackwell (for a while), and it may be that Dunham picked up the sound or idea from one of them rather than from Johnson himself. 

In any case, I'm glad that a number of you were taken by Dunham's sound on the tune.  I really love it, and pretty much love everything Andrew Dunham recorded.  Thanks to Prof Scratchy for first posting a Dunham tune at the site.  Had I not heard that, I could easily have missed Andrew Dunham altogether.  If you haven't listened to Dunham's "Sweet Lucy", go to the first post in this thread and check it out.  I think I like it even better than "Hattie Mae".

For Jim Brewer's "Rocky Mountain":
   * He played the song out of D position in standard tuning.  At :05, you can hear him resolving to a "long A" chord:  X-0-2-2-2-5.  Congratulations to Chris, Phil and Gumbo, who had it there.
   * I misidentified the timing of the run I was looking for near the front of the rendition.  It actually runs from :13--:15.  It starts on beat two of the 11th bar of the form.  On that beat, Jim Brewer plays a triplet, doing grace note hammers from the open third string to the second fret of the third string on each note of the triplet.  On the next beat, he plays another triplet, doing the same grace note hammers on the first two notes of the triplet and hitting the open third string on the third note of the triplet.  On the next beat, he plays another triplet, going from the bent third fret of the fourth string to a brush of the open fourth and third strings and back to the bent third fret of the fourth string.  On the first beat of the twelfth bar of the form, he plays another triplet, going from the open fourth string to the third fret of the fifth string and back to the open fourth string.  On the second beat of the twelfth bar, he plays another triplet hitting the open fourth string on the first note and then brushing the top of an A7 chord on the last two notes of the triplet.
   * For the run from 3:06--3:09, Jim Brewer starts it on the + of beat one in the 11th bar of the form, hitting the third fret of the fifth string there.  On the second beat of that measure, he plays a triplet from the third fret of the fifth string to the open fourth string and back to the third fret of the fifth string.  On the third beat of that measure, he plays a triplet from the second fret of the fifth string to the open fourth string and back to the second fret of the fifth string.  On the fourth beat of that measure, he plays a triplet from the first fret of the fifth string to the open fourth string, ending on the open fifth string, which he repeats as the downbeat of the twelfth bar of the form, going to an A7 at that point.  Dave pretty much had this run right on, despite working out of Vestapol, because the fifth and fourth strings are the same in Vestapol as in standard tuning.  Pretty cool!

Thanks to all for your participation, and I hope you enjoyed the songs.  I will look for some more puzzlers to post soon.

All best,
Johnm   

[Johnm]

Hi all,
I have two new puzzlers for you.  The first is "Kentucky Guitar Blues", as played by J. T. Adams, a sometime playing partner of Shirley Griffith.  The track is short, and unfortunately was recorded at too hot a level, but I think J. T.'s playing is really fine.  Here is the track:



The questions on "Kentucky Guitar Blues" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did J. T. Adams use to play the tune?
   * Where did he fret the opening lick he plays, from :00--:04?
   * Where did he fret the passage from :15--:19?
   * Where did he fret the passage from :47--:50?

The second is Snooks Eaglin's "Brown-Skinned Woman", from his Prestige Bluesville album.  Here is the track:



SOLO

I love my baby, but she don't love me
Well, I love my baby, but she don't love me
Tell me what's the matter, where can my baby be?

Brownskin woman, who can your good man be?
Brownskin woman, who can your good man be?
Well, you told me that you love me, tell me, where can you be?

Well, you said that you loved me, I know it was a lie
You said that you loved me, baby, and what's the reason why?
Yeah, I love you, oh, I love you
Yes, I love you, baby, but I don't care what you do

Brownskinned woman, who can your good man be?
Brownskinned woman, I want to say, who can your good man be?
Well, you know that I love you, but you so untrue to me

The questions on "Brown-Skinned Woman" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did Snooks use to play the song?
   * What chords (relative to his tuning and playing position) does Snooks play from :28--:33?
   * What is Snooks fretting in the movement from 2:37--2:38?

Please use only your ears and your instruments to arrive at your answers, and please don't post any answers before 8:00 AM your time on Thursday morning, July 2nd.  Thanks for your participation and I hope you enjoy the songs.

All best,
Johnm

[Prof Scratchy]

Both these are really hard to unpick! Both guitars seem tuned a whole step low. The JT Adams one is in A standard. The opening phrase seems to be based on a D shape A chord at the ninth fret, something like: 1/12>11>10>9;2/10;1/9;2/10;1/9

The passage from 0:15-19 is played something like: 6/0>hammer on 1>2;5/0>3;4/0/2/0;5/3;4/0/2/0;5/3/0;6/2;5/0

The passage from 47-50 sounds like the kind of thing  Lil Son Jackson would do in half spanish. He slides to 5fr 2nd string, plays first str open then 5th fret first str; then plays riff off abbreviated c chord utilising 3rd to 5th frets of strings 1-3. (Too fast and complex for me to decipher note for note.

The Snooks tune, I believe, is in C tuned down a step, but that's as far as I got.

[One-Eyed Ross]

I worked on the Snooks tune, not the JT Adams, so I'll take a swing at it...(and miss, I'm sure, but hey, won't be my first time).

I think it is in standard tuning, capo on 2nd fret, played in A.  (which would be the same key as the Prof., B).

The movement at :28 - :33 is hard to figure, but here's my take on it (string, then fret)

3/2, 3/4, 3/2 then 2/5, 2/3, 3/2, 2/3, 2/2, 2/1

But, I'm sure wiser heads will pick it out right.


Later that day, edited:  So, after getting home and reading some of the other responses, I retuned my 6 string down ....yep, C, down a half step, not A capoed at 2.  Rats.  But, on the other hand, it sounds better that way.  (I didn't want to retune the 12, too much work, but after I get it figured out right, I will play it on the 12 like it is supposed to be.)

[Old Man Ned]

To me, also, both guitars sound a whole step low.  Kentucky Guitar Blues, I'm hearing in A standard.  The opening lick, I'm hearing very much the same as Prof Scratchy 1/12>11>10 2/10 1/9 2/10 1/9 ending with a brush on the top 2 strings 1/9 2/10.  From 0:15-19, again pretty much the same as the Prof.  From 47:50, I'm getting 2/5 0/0 0/0 1/3 1/5 1/3 2/3 0/0 2/3 2/1 2/3 2/1 2/2 or thereabouts
                                                                          2/5

The Snooks Eaglin track I love.  In fact, I love just about everything I've heard by Snooks Eaglin.  To me, he's a guitar player that had it all, and by that I probably mean, he's the guitar player that I wish I had all he had.  I would have loved to have rattled off a whole transcription for this but at the moment that's just in my dreams.  Suffice to say, C standard and I'm struggling with the other 2 puzzlers. From 28:33 I'm suggesting he's moving from an F/F7 to C but I'm feeling I'm missing something a little more exotic here or completely barking up the wrong tree.  From 2:37-2:38 I'm afraid that's 2 seconds of bliss that's eluding me at the moment.

[Johnm]

Hi all,
Any other takers for the J. T. Adams and Snooks Eaglin puzzlers?  Come one, come all!
All best,
Johnm

[David Kaatz]

I know there are a few answers before me, but I like to try to figure these out without those influencing me, so I haven't read them yet.

Adam's Kentucky blues is in spanish. Low to high, DGDGBD, key of G.
Opening lick from 00 - :04:
is executed at the 8th fret, play 2rd string, 12th fret then 1st string and walk down to the 9th fret on that string,
play the 8th fret 2nd string, 9th fret 1st string, again 8th fret 2nd string. Then play the partial G7th chord,  at the 6th fret, hitting it twice. I'm hearing the flat 7th in there before the end of the run which makes me doubt my answer somewhat, as it isn't easy to get it in there, but one way is to play it as shown on the 3rd string, 10th fret.
E     12 11 10 9    9           
B 7                    8   8  6 6
G     10                       7 7
D x--------------------------------
G x--------------------------------                                             
D x--------------------------------

The run from :15-:19
starts on the 2th fret, 3rd string
E ---------------               
B                7 7
G 2    2 7 5 5 5       
D    4 ------7-7------------0
G --------------------0 3 5    5 3p0    0
D ---------------0h2---------------2

From :47 to :50, at the 7th fret and using the open 1st string to double the D note.
E   0  0
B          6 7 8 6
G 7  7               7 5 3 5     
D ----------------------5
G -------------       
D -------------

Snooks' Brown Skin Woman is in standard tuning, key of C. This would be my approximation of how he plays it, anyway.
From :28 - :33, Snooks starts with a C9 pickup to an F chord, to an Fm chord.

I ran out of time on this, and found it quite confusing, think I am hearing a low C in the mix - is he tuned down that low or is there a bass player? I couldn't find a tuning with a low C that worked for me.

Love that tune, though.

Dave

[banjochris]

Pretty sure Adams' tune is in A standard, not Spanish. The IV chord played walking up on the sixth string to the second fret and in a root D7 position is one giveaway, along with the V chord sound.

[David Kaatz]

Pretty sure Adams' tune is in A standard, not Spanish. The IV chord played walking up on the sixth string to the second fret and in a root D7 position is one giveaway, along with the V chord sound.

You are probably right. I missed that clue entirely. My problem is, I hear G and I find a semi-reasonable solution and stop listening to other clues - I'm listening only to the parts John asked about after I think I've hit the right tuning.

Dave

[Johnm]

Hi all,
I think that everyone who intended to respond to the J. T. Adams and Snooks Eaglin puzzlers has done so by now, so I'll post the answers.
For J. T. Adams' "Kentucky Guitar Blues":
   * He played the song out of A position in standard tuning (though tuned low).  His IV7 chord and V7 chord both are voicings which are not available in Spanish tuning.  It's probably a good idea when working out these puzzlers to remember that the percentage of Country Blues recordings in which the player is tuned to concert pitch and playing without a capo is pretty low.  For that reason, and also because of capo use on some recordings, it is a good idea not to set very much store on the key in which a song sounds.  That key has a very good chance of not matching up with the playing position/tuning a player is using to play the song.
   * J. T. Adams fretted the passage from :00--:04 on his tune like so:  He is working out of a D/D7 shape up at the ninth fret.  He picks the 10th fret of the second string on the + of beat four, preceding the downbeat of the form.  On beat one of the first measure, he plays a triplet, going from the 11th fret to the 10th fret to the 9th fret, all on the first string.  When he hits the 9th fret on the third note of that triplet, he also brushes the 8th fret of the second string, where the 7th in that D7 shape is sitting.  On beat two, he plays another triplet going from the 10th fret of the second string to the ninth fret of the first string and back to the 10th fret of the second string.  As with the first triplet, when he strikes the ninth fret of the first string, he also brushes the 8th fret of the second string.  On beat three he brushes the 9th fret of the first string and the 8th fret of the second string on the beat, and on the + of the beat he plays the 8th fret of the second string, which ties into the downbeat of the fourth beat.  On the + of beat four, he does a pick-up slide into the seventh fret of the second string, in preparation for his D chord in the second bar.  Prof Scratch and Old Man Ned were both pretty much on this lick, with the primary difference being that Adams' walk-down on the first string started at the 11th rather than the 12th fret.
   * J. T. Adams played the passage from :15--:19 like so:  On the fourth beat of the 8th bar of the form, he plays a triplet, going from the open fourth string to the first fret of the fourth string to the second fret of the fourth string.  In the ninth bar, beat one, he hits the open sixth string on beat one and the open second string on the + of beat one.  On beat two, he plays a triplet, moving from the open third string to the first fret of the third string and on to the open first string.  On beat three, he plays the third fret of the second string on the beat and brushes the open first string and the third fret of the second string on the + of the beat.  On beat four, he brushes the same two notes he brushed on the + of beat three, brushing towards the treble, and on the + of beat four, he does a grace note hammer from the open sixth string to the second fret of the sixth string.  In the 10th bar, on beat one he hits the open fifth string and the a bent third fret of the fifth string on the + of beat one.  On beat two, he plays a triplet going from the open fourth string to the second fret of the fourth string and back to the open fourth string.  On beat three, he hits a triplet, going from the third fret of the fifth string to the open fourth string and back to the third fret of the fifth string.  On beat four, he hits one last triplet, going from the open fifth string to the second fret of the sixth string and back to the open fifth string.  ( I was crazy to assign so long a passage to figure out!  It takes forever to describe.)
   * J. T. Adams played the passage from :47--:50 like so:  He is moving towards the tenth bar of the form in this passage, and to set up the passage does a slide into the fifth fret of the second string on the + of beat four in the ninth bar of the form.  On beat one of the tenth bar, he plays a triplet, moving from the open first string to the fifth fret of the second string and back to the open first string.  On beat two, he plays another triplet, going from the third fret of the first string up to the fourth and fifth frets on that string.  On beat three, he plays a triplet gong from the third fret of the first string to the fifth fret of the second string, finishing up on the third fret of the second string.  On beat four, he plays a triplet, going from the fifth fret of the third string to the third fret of the second string and back to the fifth fret of the third string, resolving down to the second fret of the fourth string for the downbeat of the 11th bar of the form.  Prof Scratchy had this substantially figured out, in terms of where it sits on the neck.
I think J. T. Adams' playing on "Kentucky Guitar Blues" is so strong, and nothing that he did on his duo album with Shirley Griffith, where he is seconding Shirley pretty much the whole time, gave any kind of indication that he was capable of this kind of playing.  I sure wish he had been recorded more.
Here are the answers for Snooks Eaglin's "Brown Skinned Woman":
   * Snooks did play the song out of C position as you pretty much all had it.  Well done!
   * For the passage from :28--:33, here is what Snooks did:  He goes to an F chord, just prior to :28, resolving from there into first a Dm7b5,  0-1-1-1 on his top four strings, at :31, and then adding the first fret of the fifth string at :32, giving himself a Bb9, 1-0-1-1-1 on the top five strings.  The sound of this series of chords is just beautiful, about as pretty as it gets.  Dave had the sense of the move right on the money:  functionally, Snooks is essentially going from IV major, F, to IV minor, F minor.  What enables him to do the substitutions for the F minor is the fact that both Dm7b5 and Bb9 have the Ab note that is the minor third of the F minor chord.  That's where the crucial movement is when you go from IV major to IV minor, from the VI note of the scale, A in the key of C, which is the third of the IV major chord to the bVI note of the scale, Ab, which is the minor third of the IV minor chord.  You can do substitutions to color the sound differently as long as you preserve that VI to bVI sound.  Snooks obviously knew this well enough to play a couple of substitutions., and the listener is the beneficiary of his knowledge and creativity.
   * For Snooks move from 2:37 to 2:38, he is just gong from a C add 9, X-3-2--0-3-X to a C chord, X-3-2-0-1-X.  Who would have thought that such a simple move could sound so pretty, but it certainly does.

A couple of brief notes about Snooks' playing on "Brown Skinned Woman".  I'm not aware of any other guitarist, except perhaps for someone copying Snooks, who plays in this beautiful straight 12/8 feel, a sound I very much associate with New Orleans music and in particular, Fats Domino, as on "Blueberry Hill" and "I'm Walkin' To New Orleans".  The other thing is Snooks' singing on this tune kills me, it's so soulful.  What a treat!

Thanks for your participation, and I hope you enjoyed the tunes.  I'll try to find some other good puzzlers soon.
All best,
Johnm       

[banjochris]

Pretty sure Adams' tune is in A standard, not Spanish. The IV chord played walking up on the sixth string to the second fret and in a root D7 position is one giveaway, along with the V chord sound.

You are probably right. I missed that clue entirely. My problem is, I hear G and I find a semi-reasonable solution and stop listening to other clues - I'm listening only to the parts John asked about after I think I've hit the right tuning.

Dave

And I usually listen for the tuning and key but am too lazy to figure out where all the runs go!
Chris

[Johnm]

Hi all,
I've got two new puzzlers for you, both featuring musicians from the Carolinas.  The first is Floyd Council's "I Don't Want No Hungry Woman".  Here is the cut:

http://youtu.be/FRqeVxvDOMs?list=PLIYqCYvdIx5vyUIk3f8A2xt26Zi3EUnhL

INTRO

Lord, I can't see how these hungry women sleep
Lord, I can't see how these hungry women sleep
Walk the streets at night like a police on his beat

Yeah, they stand on the corner, 'til their feet get soakin' wet
Well, they stand on the corner, 'til their feet get soakin' wet
"Mister, if you ain't got a nickel, please give me a cigarette."

Now, I'm goin' down in Tin Can Alley and get drunk as I can be
Hey-ey-ey, get drunk as I can be
I don't want no hungry woman to lay their hands on me

SOLO

I done spoken to the Welfare, wrote to the government, too
I done spoken to the Welfare, wrote to the government, too
And I asked them to help me get my woman a pair of shoes

Hey, the Welfare didn't answer, government paid me no mind
Hey, government didn't answer, Welfare paid me no mind
"Before if you think we gonna help you, swear you better change your mind."

The questions on "I Don't Want No Hungry Woman" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did Floyd Council use to play the song?
   * How does he finger what he plays in the bass from :20--:24?
   * What position does he start his solo at, around 1:34,  and where does he move away to before returning to the first position?

The second song is Rich Trice's "Come On Baby".  Here it is:



INTRO

I been tellin', let me tell you, all the time
I had a woman done just like mine, then
REFRAIN: Come on, baby, just have some fun
And don't be uneasy, Lord, you hope your man not gonna run

She got some rosy cheeks, says, she smiles all the time
She got somethin', she can please my mind, then
REFRAIN: Come on, baby, just have some fun
And don't be uneasy, Lord, you hope your man's not gonna run

I don't drink no whiskey, baby, say now, I don't run around
I don't worry, mama, 'til my love come down, then
REFRAIN: Come on, baby, just have some fun
And don't be uneasy, Lord, your good man not gonna run

SOLO (Spoken: Yeah!  Play it then, boy!

Lay down, baby, say, close your eyes
Your daddy gon' give you somethin' gonna make you wise, say
REFRAIN: Come on, baby, just have some fun
And don't be uneasy, Lord, your good man not gonna run

Turn to the East, mama, turn to the West
Turn to one that you love the best, then
REFRAIN: Come on, baby, just have some fun
And don't be uneasy, Lord, your good man not gonna run

SOLO

Last night my baby says she, lays on the ground
Started lovin' don't 'low nobody 'round, then
REFRAIN: Come on, baby, just have some fun
And don't be uneasy, Lord, your good man not gonna run

The questions on "Come On Baby" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did Rich Trice use to play the song?
   * Where does he fret his opening phrase, from :00--:07?

Please use only your ears and instruments to arrive at your answers, and please don't post any answers before 8:00 AM your time on Wednesday morning, July 8.  Thanks for your participation.

All best,
Johnm
   

[frankie]

Hi John - looks like the 2nd link is a repeat of the first...  I thought it sounded familiar!

And Floyd Council does Fuller almost better than Fuller!

[frankie]

Is this the Rich Trice tune?