Topic: Miller's Breakdown

[Johnm]

Hi all,
Any other takers on the Kid Prince Moore and the John Henry Barbee puzzlers?  Come one, come all.
All best,
Johnm

[andrescountryblues]

"Against My Will":

* What playing position/tuning did John Henry Barbee use to play the song?  (We're speaking of the higher, lead guitar part.)
Standard tuning capo 3rd fret "D" position.

* Where did Barbee fret the descending line that he plays at the end of each verse?
Relative to the capo:
|-------------------------------
|-3-0----------------------------
|------2-------------------------
|--------3b4-0----0-------------
|----------------2---------------
|-------------------------------

[Dom94]

For Me Kid Moore sounds like standard tuning, pitch low , A position . typically licks in A.

[Prof Scratchy]

I'll say John Henry Barbee is playing in D standard, capoed up a bit, and the descending run is str/fret:4/0>3>4>2>0;5/2>0;4/0
Kid Prince Moore plays out of A postion in standard tuning.

[eric]

Hmmm, I seem to the outlier on E for Kid Prince Moore.  I'll revisit this afternoon if its not too late.

[Johnm]

Hi all,
It looks like all the responses are in on the John Henry Barbee and Kid Prince Moore puzzlers, so here are the answers:
   * John Henry Barbee played "Against My Will" out of D position in standard tuning, as andrescountryblues and Prof Scratchy had it.  The descending run he played at the end of his verse, described as notes of the scale would be I-bVII-V-bIII-I-I, and could be played at third fret of the second string to first fret of the second string or fifth fret of the third string to second fret of the third string to bent third fret of the fourth string to open fourth string twice, with a little pause between the two low I notes
   * Kid Prince Moore played "Pickin' Low Cotton, pt.1" out of A position in standard tuning.  He has many or most of the characteristic A position sounds, such as doing a thumb wrap at the second fret of the sixth string under his IV7 (D7) chord, and doing a first fret hammer on the third string in his V7 (E7) chord.  One thing a bit unusual about Prince Kid Moore's playing here is that almost never puts the open sixth string in the bass under his E chord, choosing instead to play his bass in that chord at the second fret of the fourth string.
Thanks everyone, for participating, and I'll try to find another puzzler soon.
All best,
Johnm

[Johnm]

Hi all,
I've got a new puzzler for you.  It involves two performances, and the first is by the Mississipi musician, Roosevelt Holts. Here is his performance of "Mean Conductor Blues":



Well, well, well, baby, what's the matter here?
Well, well, well, what's the matter here?
Babe, I ain't got nobody feel my worried care

Well, sun gon' shine, my back door someday
Well, well, well, my back door someday
Well, the wind gon' change, blow my blues away

Well, mean conductor, won't let a poor man ride
Well, mean conductor, won't let a poor man ride
Well, mean old woman, won't treat a poor man right

Well, look-a-here, woman, what I got for you
Well, look-a-here, woman, what I got for you
Well, I done everything, poor old man can do

* What playing position/tuning did Roosevelt Holts use to play "Mean Conductor Blues"?

The second song is Joel Hopkins' "I Ain't Gonna Roll for the Big Hat Man No More".  Here is his performance:



Says, I ain't gonna roll for the big hat man no more
Well, I ain't gonna roll for the big hat man no more
There's a good time here, but it's better down the road, better down the road,
Good Lord, Good Lord, Lordy, Lordy, Lord

I ain't gonna tell nobody what the Santa Fe dones to me
Ain't gon' tell nobody what the Santa Fe done to me
Well, it take my rider and it set back after me
Good Lord, Good Lord, Lord, Lordy, Lord

Say, my poor Mama died in nineteen and twenty-four
Yes, my poor Mama died in nineteen and twenty-four
Sleepin' a long dream, to never speak no more
Yeeeeeeees, she leavin' in the mornin' so I can never see 'er no more

Says, I love my rider, tell the world I do
Says, I love my rider, tell the world I do, tell the world I do
Well, I hope someday that she come to love me too
Good Lord, Good Lord, Lordy, Lordy, Lord

Mmmmmmmmm, Lord, have mercy on me

If you take my rider, I won't get mad with you, won't get mad with you
Just like you takin' mine, I'll take someone's, too

Pleeeeeeease, baby, please not raise your hand
Say, please, ma'am, baby, said, please not raise your hand
'Cause, you know you leavin', you, on account of your man
Good Lord, Good Lord, Good Lord, Lordy, Lordy, Lord

Say, the blues ain't nothin' but a green man feelin' bad
Well, the blues ain't nothin' but a green man feelin' bad
You know, it must not a-been then, the worried blues I had

Gonna leave here walkin', talkin' to myself
Gonna leave here walkin', talkin' to myself
Talkin' to the woman I'm lookin' for, I don't want nobody else
Mmmmmm, Good Lord, Good Lord, Lordy, Lordy, Lord

Don't take my baby and I won't get mad with you
Don't take my baby and I won't get mad with you
Just like you taken mine, I'm gonna take someone's, too

   * What playing position/tuning did Joel Hopkins use to play "I Ain't Gonna Roll for the Big Hat Man No More'?

Please use only your ears and instruments to arrive at your answers, and please don't post any answers before Wednesday morning, March 18.  Thanks for participating, and I hope you enjoy the songs.

All best,
Johnm

[Prof Scratchy]

No takers yet, so time for another heroic failure to start the ball rolling. So I'm going to day Half Spanish for the first one and Vestapol for the second!

[eric]

I'm in the Prof Scratchy camp on I Ain't Gonna Roll for the Big Hat Man No More:
Vestapol, capo iv.  Great title by the way.  Make that capo at the 2nd fret, or tuned high.

[blueshome]

Vastapol for the Hopkins. 1st feels like G, not smart enough to figure is its droppedG.

[banjochris]

I'll second (or third or fourth) Prof Scratchy!

[frankie]

Roosevelt Holts sounds like std tuning, G position to me...  no V below the tonic and there's a moment at about 1:50 where he plays a G7 with a B in the bass (rocks back and forth between B-flat and B) that's a cinch in std... possible but not as cool under the hand in half-spanish.

The Joel Hopkins seems at first a safe bet for something vestapol-like...  except... is it just me, or is the major third on the 3rd string notably absent from that recording? Not even sure I hear it as part of the brush... Tons of activity on the 1st an 2nd strings, and man... does that guy enjoy his cuddle time on the I chord or what?

Listening again, you can hear him arpeggiate the tuning in the first few seconds - low to high: E B E E B E

dubya tee EFF! go figure...

[eric]

After what Frankie said, I'm not sure what's going on with the 3rd string there in that arpeggio, doesn't quite seem right for Vestapol... 

[Johnm]

Hi all,
I think enough people have responded to the last puzzler that it's okay to post the answers.  Here goes:
   * Roosevelt Holts did play "Mean Conductor Blues" out of G position in standard tuning, as Phil and Frankie had it.  This was a tough identification, I think, because so much of what Holts plays, especially up the neck, comes right out of Bo Carter's bag of tricks in DGDGBE tuning.  However, he never hits the low V note in the bass that would be available if he were playing in DGDGBE tuning in the key of G.  Instead, he hits a low E note, at :55, 1:21, 1:28 and 2:01.  The time he hits the low E note at 1:21 is particularly telling, because he is up the neck rocking between a G out of the D shape and a C7, up around the 7th fret, and couldn't possibly fret the sixth string at the second fret at the same time, which is what he would have to do to get an E note if he was in DGDGBE tuning.  Also, in the passage from 1:45--1:55, he holds an F note for a G7 at the first fret of the first string while rocking between a Bb and a B on the fifth string.  In G standard, that move is right under the hand, as Frank noted, but in DGDGBE it would require holding the first fret of the first string while rocking between the third and fourth frets of the fifth string--not impossible, but durned awkward and non-intuitive. 
One thing Holts does up the neck in G that is so nifty:  In rocking between the G and C7 chord on the top three strings, Bo moves between 7-8-7 for his G chord and 9-8-6 for his C7 chord.  Holts frets the G chord as Bo did, a D-shaped 7-8-7, but for his C7, goes from 0-8-6 on the first three strings to 0-8-0, popping back and forth between the 7th of the C7 chord, Bb, at the 6th fret of the first string and the 3rd of the C7 chord, E, located at the open first string.  This moves sounds so terrific--try it out!  I'm not accustomed to hearing someone "out-clever" Bo Carter in Bo's own language, but I think Roosevelt Holts just may have done that here.  It reminds me a little bit of some of the nifty moves Ramblin' Thomas played in A, working in Lemon's language, but coming up with things Lemon never played, at least on record.
   * Joel Hopkins did play "I Ain't Gonna Roll for the Big Hat Man No More" in EBEEBE tuning as Frank pointed out--way to notice, Frank!  I can't claim to having sussed this out from the sounds of what Hopkins does in the course of his rendition.  Rather, at the very front end of the piece, before he starts playing the song, he briefly plays his open strings from the sixth to the first, and that's what he plays.  It certainly does account for his very droney, open sound and complete lack of a third in his I chord (which he never leaves).  I have never heard of anyone else using this tuning, but it would certainly make figuring out what Joel Hopkins played easy, because he free-hands the whole thing, essentially playing slide without a slide.

Thanks to all who participated in these puzzlers, which I thought were really not easy at all.  I'll try to find some more to post soon.

All best,
Johnm

[Prof Scratchy]

Double dang. Mind you, there's no way I could have worked out the second one!