Topic: Miller's Breakdown

[Old Man Ned]

I had a go at Joe Harris's Baton Rouge Rag and then bought the transcription from you to see how close I'd got  .....close'ish...  

I also had a crack at Pink Andersons Fly Away (love Pink Anderson) but mainly I've been using the puzzlers to improve my hearing and transcribing which has helped me with some Hacksaw Harney, Precious Bryant and Luke Jordan tunes plus a couple of verses of Blind Blake's Seaboard Stomp when I was feeling particularly adventurous. 

I honestly never thought I would be able to get to a position where I would be able to figure out a good part of what these guys are doing.  It really does pay to stick at it because when you get it spot on you seem to know you've got it and when you know you are close to it, it still sounds pretty good (to my ears anyway) and gives me a greater appreciation have how terrific these guys were.

I really do appreciate the time and effort you put into this thread John.  For me, it's been a terrific learning place.

All the best,
Ned

[Prof Scratchy]

Trouble and French Blues are the ones I've had a go at, but only with the benefit of lessons from Johnm! I got somewhere with Baton Rouge Rag too after reading the answer to the puzzler. Great thread, and one which has introduced us all to so much new material.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Pan]

Still working on "Hacksaw's Down South Blues". I think I've got it mostly, but to get it to the original tempo will be a challenge.

I'm sure there are others, but can't remember them offhand. There are also some tunes, that I've had to reconsider, after reading about them on this thread, although I don't always try to recreate the original version note to note. Still, it's nice to know how they should be played, properly. 

Cheers

Pan

[Johnm]

Thanks very much, Dave, Zohar, Old Man Ned, Prof Scratchy and Pan for the feedback.  Working on finding the songs and artists for this thread has been such an education for me, and has impressed on me in a way that I never fully appreciated before what an incredibly rich tradition the Blues was during the period when it was simultaneously a Pop music and a Folk music.  There's a way that focusing on re-issues of commercial recordings encourages a sort of ranking of players, or a hierarchic assigning of value to players based on how skillful, or accomplished, or "important" they were.  When you start to listen to field recordings, though, or later commercial recordings that have been neglected by virtue of being "Post-War", you realize that the hierarchic approach to assigning value to musicians really misses the boat.  There were so many players and singers who may not have had a huge range, but who were nonetheless so strong in what they did, and had their own things to say and their own way of saying those things.  Ranking players is beside the point because it shows so little understanding of what the experience of music-making is for the person making the music. 

More and more, I'm feeling that is where the essence of the music lies--What do you have to say in your music, and how do you say it?  I think imitation is the beginning of all learning, but it shouldn't be where we're stuck in perpetuity.  The materials of music don't belong to anybody--they are there for all of us to draw upon and use in the ways that sound and feel best and most natural to us.  Search for and find your own voice.
All best,
Johnm

[Lastfirstface]

Great post, John. I haven't always participated in this thread but I'm always reading and learning from it. Thanks for all your work.

[jpeters609]

I'd like to second Lastfirstface's comment. The puzzlers are beyond my ability at this point, but I read them all with great interest and believe I glean a thing or two from them, even as a novice. Thanks for your generosity in putting these together.

[orvillej]

I need a "like" button for Johnm's last comment.

[Stuart]

Perfectly stated, John. All of the things you mention--the so-called "hierarchies,"etc., --tell us everything except how life was lived from the inside out by the people who made--and/or continue to make--the music. There are many musicians who are greatly underrepresented and underappreciated, as you say. But that doesn't lessen the quality and value of their music one iota, IMHO.

[Johnm]

Hi all,
I thought I would post some more puzzlers.  It felt good to step back a moment and come up for air and think about things a bit.  The first two puzzlers are from Frankie Lee Sims, and are from sessions that I'd never heard before, on which he was joined by a lap-steel player.  It really sounds great to me.  Frankie Lee was one of those musicians, like Barbecue Bob or Tommy McClennan, who always sounded so intensely alive.  The first cut is "Don't Forget Me, Baby", and here it is:



INTRO

Well, I looked at the sun this mornin', boy, and the sun was shining warm
Yes, I look ed at the sun this mornin', I declare the sun was shining warm
I got to thinkin' about my woman, boy, and I kept walkin' on

Well, I said, "Baby, please bring your clothes back home."
I said, "Baby, will you please bring your clothes back home.
Says, I'm gonna weep and worry, little woman, but it ain't gonna last me long

Well, if it ain't one thing, baby, you keep me worried all the time
Yes, it ain't but one thing, baby, you keep me worried all the time
But I'll tell you one thing about it, I ain't never gonna give you my last dime

But every good-bye ain't gone, baby, shut-eye sure ain't sleep
Every good-bye ain't gone, little woman, and the shut-eye sure ain't sleep
But I said one thing about it, baby, will you please remember me?

I said, Lord, oh Lord, Lord, oh Lord, oh Lord
I said, Lord, oh Lord, Lord, oh Lord, oh Lord
Said, I used to be your regular, little woman, but now I've got to be your dog

You'd rather be an old man's sweetheart, than to be a young man's slave
Yes, you'd rather be an old man's sweetheart, boy, to be a young man's slave
But, I said a old man'll give you his money, young man will throw it away

I said, yonder she goes, please go call her back
I said, yond' she goes, please go call her back
Boys, she ain't too small, and the girl, she ain't too fat

OUTRO
 
The questions on "Don't Forget Me, Baby" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did Frankie Lee Sims use to play the song?
   * Frankie Lee opens his intro with a descending run played twice.  He then plays an answering ascending run up, then works his way back down.  Where did he fret the ascending/descending run?
   * Where did Frankie Lee fret the bass run that follows the tagline of his first verse?

The second puzzler from Frankie Lee Sims is his "Single Man Blues", which must have been recorded at the same session as "Don't Forget Me, Baby".  Here it is:



INTRO

I said, "There yonder she goes, man, please go call her back."
I say, "Yonder she goes, man, please go call her back.
Lord, she taken my last cent, even taken my old raggedy hat."

Well, some folks say, man, what a woman will do, boy, she gets your money and then, she, uh, through with you
But a married woman, boy, she's best one that ever been born
Boy, you don't have to worry about her, man, you ain't got her all day long

'Cause a single woman will swear, boy, she love you all her life
Yes, a single woman will swear, man, love you all her life
Meet another man 'round the corner, declare, tell that same lie twice

Blues in the mornin', blues late at night, well, the blues I had man, ain't been doin' me right
I'm gonna let you go back home, oh woman, where you belong
'Cause you ain't doin' nothin', baby, teachin' me right from wrong

I said, Lord, oh Lord, you know our children nowadays, they don't pay their Mother no mind, but stay gone all night, their Mama's in her back door cryin'
I said, "Lord have mercy, on this old world today.
Man, get a no-good woman, boys, then she wanta have her way."

SOLO

Well, If I'd a-knowed it, boys, Lord, this mornin' at the break of day, I woulda let my woman went on and had her way
But I said, "Bye-bye, baby, honey baby, if you call that gone.
'Cause you ain't done nothin', baby, breakin' up my sweet happy home."

SOLO

The questions on "Single Man Blues" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did Frankie Lee Sims use to play the song?
   * Where did Frankie Lee fret the up/down run that concludes his intro?
   * What did Frankie Lee do to alter the feel of the time at the beginning of his final solo?

The third puzzler is from Luther Stoneham, about whom I know nothing in the biographical sense.  The song is his "January 11, 1949 Blues", and here it is:



INTRO

Lord, it was January eleven, Lord, it was nineteen-hundred and forty-nine
Lord, it was January eleven, Lord, it was nineteen-hundred and forty-nine
My woman left me, I declare, was almost blind

SOLO

I said, I love my baby, but my baby won't behave
I says, I love my baby, but my baby won't behave (Spoken: What you gonna do, Luther?)
I'm gonna get me a hard-shootin' pistol, Lord, and put her down in her grave

SOLO (Spoken: Play the blues)

The questions on "January 11, 1949 Blues" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did Luther Stoneham use to play the song?
   * Where did Luther Stoneham fret the fill he plays at :18--19, and what note does he hit twice in the bass under it?
   
As always, please use only your ears and your guitars to arrive at your answers, and please don't post any answers before 8:00 AM your time on Monday, May 15.  Thanks for your participation and I hope you enjoy the songs.
All best,
Johnm

[Prof Scratchy]

The questions on "Don't Forget Me, Baby" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did Frankie Lee Sims use to play the song? - A standard
   * Frankie Lee opens his intro with a descending run played twice.  He then plays an answering ascending run up, then works his way back down.  Where did he fret the ascending/descending run? - holding a long A chord he plays : 1str/ 5 3 ;2str /5 3; 3rd str/ 5b 2. Then he ascends on 2nd str/ 2 3 4 5 ;1st str/ 5 2 ;3rd str/ 5b 2
   * Where did Frankie Lee fret the bass run that follows the tagline of his first verse? 5th str /0  3 4;  4th str/0 2; 5th str/ 3b 0



The questions on "Single Man Blues" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did Frankie Lee Sims use to play the song? E standard
   * Where did Frankie Lee fret the up/down run that concludes his intro?  1st str /3b 0; 2nd str/3 0; 3rd str/ 3 2 0 ; 4th str/ 2 2
   * What did Frankie Lee do to alter the feel of the time at the beginning of his final solo? - Doubles time accentuating off beat?



The questions on "January 11, 1949 Blues" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did Luther Stoneham use to play the song? E standard tuned low.
   * Where did Luther Stoneham fret the fill he plays at :18--19, and what note does he hit twice in the bass under it?  2nd str/ 3b; 1st str/ 0; 2nd str/ 3b; 1st str/ 0; 3rd str/ 3 2 0; 4th str/  2. Plays open 4th string in bass?

[Old Man Ned]

 "Don't Forget Me, Baby" A standard
Where did Frankie Lee fret  is intro with a descending run played twice, then playing an answering ascending run up, then working his way back down?

I really can't decide between a long A and an A at the 5th fret. The first couple of seconds it sounds more like a long A, but I'm liking playing the ascending run:
5------------------
--8--5-------------
--------7--4h5----
-----------------7-
-------------------
-------------------
Och, it's probably a long A, where I think the ascending part of the run is easier to play

Where did Frankie Lee fret the bass run that follows the tagline of his first verse?
4th str; ------------0--2--0
5thstr;  --0--3--4------------3b--0

"Single Man Blues" E standard;
Where did Frankie Lee fret the up/down run that concludes his intro?
I'm hearing something like:
-------3--0----3--0---------3--0----0-----------------
----2--------2------------2-------3-----3--0-----------
------------------------------------------------2--0h1--
---------------------------------------------------------2
--0---------------------0--------------------------------
0---------------------0----------------------------------

What did Frankie Lee do to alter the feel of the time at the beginning of his final solo?
Something weird?

So weird it spooked me for the detail of Luther Stoneham's "January 11, 1949 Blues" which sounds in E standard tuned a half step down.

[joe paul]

Frankie Lee Sims, great !
Don’t Forget Me Baby is played in A position (in standard tuning). The descending run is from the 5th fret to the 3rd then open on the E string, 3rd fret then 1st fret on the B string and two hits on the A, 2nd fret of the G string. Second run down is the same but instead of the second A on the G string he jumps up to a G on the 3rd fret of the E string, brushing the 2nd string 2nd fret with it. Then he goes back up from the 2nd fret on the B string, 3rd fret slide to the 4th and the open E string with the Eb still sounding a little (great!), A note twice at the 5th fret of the E string , 3rd fret, open, 3rd fret and 1st fret twice on the B string and back to the 2nd fret of the G string. And a neat move on the 5th string (open, open, 3rd) to 4th (open, first, open)  and back, 3rd fret 5th string to set things up.

Frankie Lee Sims is playing in E position on Single man Blues, tuned just a little below E.
The up and down run that comes at about 8 seconds in is off the A chord that he slides into from the low E string 2nd fret up to the 4th and the open 5th, then picks up on the 2nd string 2nd fret, 3rd fret then open E string, B string 3rd fret then open and G string 3rdfret, 2nd fret and hammer on to the 1st fret, finishing with the 2nd fret on the D string and the open E octave note.
At the beginning of the final solo, I’m not sure of how we can describe it, but I think you’d say he goes from a swung feel to a straight feel.

I think Luther Stoneham’s playing in E position tuned a semitone and a bit low, and the fill is I think a bend on the 3rd fret of the 2nd string to the open E string, with the open 5 string under it. But I’m far from certain of it.

Ok, there's been a couple of replies already that I haven't looked at, let's say if we agree...

And thanks John for this thread, I enjoy it a lot, especially when I make time to work on figuring out the answers..

(edited because I got mixed up retuning the guitar to play with Luther Stoneham!)

[Johnm]

Hi all,
Any other takers for the Frankie Lee Sims and Luther Stoneham puzzlers?  Come one, come all--answer one, two or all three!
All best,
Johnm

[Johnm]

Hi all,
It appears that all who intended to respond to the Frankie Lee Sims and Luther Stoneham puzzlers have done so by now, so I will post the answers.  Here goes:

For Frankie Lee Sims' "Don't Forget Me, Baby":
   * His playing position was A position in standard tuning as all who responded had it--well done!
   * He starts the ascending/descending run in his opening solo by hitting the second fret of the second string on the + of beat 1 of a measure.  On beat two, he plays a triplet, moving from the third fret of the second string to the fourth fret of the second string to the open first string.  On 3+ he hits the fifth fret of the first string twice, and on 4+ he goes from third fret of the first string to the open first string (or fifth fret of the second string).  On 5+ he moves from the third fret of the second string to the bent fifth fret of the third string, and on 6+ he moves from the bent fifth fret of the third string to the second fret of the third string.  In the next bar, on 1+, he hits the open fifth string twice.  On beat two, he plays a triplet, moving from the third fret of the fifth string to the open fourth string and then to the first fret of the fourth string.  On 3+, he goes from the open fourth string to the open fifth string, and on 4+, he goes from the bent third fret of the fifth string to the open fifth string.  What a run!  Joe paul had this run spot on, finding a couple of notes in different locations--very, very well done!
  * The bass run following the tagline of his first verse starts by hitting the open fifth string twice on 1+.  On 2+, he goes from the third to the fourth fret on the fifth string.  On beat three he plays a triplet, the first two notes of which are a hammer from the open fourth string to the first fret of the fourth string, with the final note being a return to the open fourth string.  On 4+, he goes from the bent third fret of the fifth string to the open fifth string.

For "Single Man Blues":
   * His playing position was E position in standard tuning, as all who responded had it--can't do better than that!
   * His run that concludes his intro starts on the + of beat one, at the second fret of the second string.  On beat 2, he plays a triplet, going from the third fret of the first string to the open first string, ending on the third fret of the second string.  On beat three, he plays another triplet, descending from the open second string to the third fret, and then second fret of the third string.  On beat four, he plays another triplet, the first two notes being a barely audible hammer from the open third string to the first fret of the third string, and the last note being the second fret of the fourth string.  Another rocking run, and his time is strong, strong, strong!
   * Frankie Lee alters the rhythmic feel at the front end of his final solo by switching from the swung eighth note feel in which he has played the entire song up to that point to a straight eighth note feel.  The result?  It sounds intensely syncopated and funky.  Joe paul had Frankie Lee's rhythmic device accurately sussed out--well done!

Was Frankie Lee Sims terrific or what?  He had such an exciting looseness to what he did, both vocally and instrumentally.  I also admire his "spending it all" sort of feeling--he didn't leave anything in the locker room!

For Luther Stoneham's "January 11, 1949 Blues":
   * His playing position was E position in standard tuning.  Once again, all responses correct, batting 1.000 today!
   * Luther Stoneham fretted his fill at :18--:19 as follows:  On 2+, he goes from a deeply bent third fret of the second string to the open first string.  On 3+ he goes from the deeply bent third fret of the second string to the open second string.  On beat four, he plays a triplet, starting at the second fret of the third string.  On the second note of the triplet, he does a grace note hammer from the open third string to the first fret of the third string, resolving on the final note of the triplet to the second fret of the fourth string.  On beats two and three of the fill, he hit the open fifth string in the bass, underneath the run.

I had never heard or heard of Luther Stoneham before, but he sure sounds good to me.  I really like his singing--great gravitas.

Thanks to Prof Scratchy, Old Man Ned and joe paul for participating.  I think one of the great things about participating is that you have to listen hard to try to answer the questions, and when you have performances like these ones, you are amply rewarded for listening hard--what a treat!  I'll try to find some more puzzlers to post soon.
All best,
Johnm

[Johnm]

Hi all,
It has been a while since I posted some puzzlers, and I'm feeling a bit refreshed, so here goes.  The first puzzler is from Memphis Willie B., and it is his "Lonesome Home Blues".  Here it is:



The questions on "Lonesome Home Blues" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did Memphis Willie B. use to play the song?
   * Where is Memphis Willie B. fretting the bend he plays from :15--:19?
   * Where does Memphis Willie B. fret the run that concludes his solo, from 2:14--2:16?

The second puzzler is from Jesse Thomas, and it is his "No Good Woman Blues", recorded in 1929.  Here it is:



The questions on "No Good Woman Blues" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did Jess Thomas use to play the song?
   * Where does Jess Thomas fret the four-chord walk-down from :01--:03?
   * What concept recently addressed in another thread is utilized by Jesse Thomas at the beginning of his solo, from 1:32--1:34, and where does he fret the two chordal positions there?

The puzzler is from Jaydee Short, and it is his song "You Been Cheating Me".  Here is his performance:



The questions on "You Been Cheating Me" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did Jaydee Short use to play "You Been Cheating Me"?
   * Where does he fret his IV chord, from :10--:15, and how would you name that chord?
   * While holding his I chord near the end of his intro, at :23, Jaydee Short adds notes to his I chord for an instant and then rocks back into his I chord.  Where does he fret the notes he adds to the I chord, and what chord is he playing when he adds those notes?
   * "You Been Cheating Me" shares its basic structure and contour with what Blues Standard?

Please use only your ears and your guitars to arrive at your answers, and please don't post any answers before 8:00 AM your time on Monday, June 5.  Thanks for your participation and I hope you enjoy the songs.

All best,
Johnm