Hi all, In the session information for a fair number of blues records from the late '30s and early '40s, "imitation bass" is listed as being among the instruments being played. Does anyone know what exactly is being described by that designation? Washtub bass? Vocal imitation of a bass? It's not a jug, judging by the sound. I would love to know what they're talking about when they say "imitation bass". Thanks for any clarification. All best, Johnm
Yes, Alfred Elkins is the guy, most commonly associated with "imitation Bass"
What I've been able to do, to imitate Elkins, is, fret the notes, with the left hand, on the low E string of the Guitar and pluck the string, in upstrokes, with the index finger of the right hand, with the right hand positioned at the 7th-10th frets. To my ear, this produces the exact same sound Elkins acheived. As to whether or not that was what Elkins was doing, we may never know, but I think that if you give it a try, you'll conclude, as I did, that it's almost certainly, what "imitation Bass" is
Some other info that can be gleaned from B&GR. No theories attached, only questions.
on page xlv, in the section "Abbreviations", "Instruments and General":
"imb imitation bass (tub-bass)"
Whether this explanation comes from session records or aural interpretation on the part of the editors is one question, the variability of which is discussed in the "Introduction".
on page 1348 in the "Index to Accompanists" Alfred Elkins entry states:
"imb/sb/vocal bass/bass cano"
One question might be, aside from the double bass (sb), what are the chances that the other three are the same thing, described by different studios or A&R guys? But then again, the fact that he does play that double bass in some sessions indicates that he was adept at fretless fretting, and other than the "vocal bass", they might be a single string bass instrument (bass diddley bow?).
In fact Pan started a thread here discussing the bass cano. There is some indication/speculation that it is a single string instrument and further that in may have been held by a long length of cane. One such instrument exists in the Smithsonian, but no online pics. (Mods: neither this topic nor that one have "Alfred Elkins" tags)
Someone with more time and obsession than me (and maybe you already have Mike B.) could run down the 2 dozen or so recording sessions he performed on and see how different the various designations sound. And whether there was maybe a correlation between labels and instruments, which wouldn't really mean too much but... Given the list of artists he backed, that would be an interesting couple days/weeks of listening.
Does anyone know any other accompanists listed playing the "imitation bass"? It wouldn't take too much time to scan through the "Index to Accompanists" to look for "imb" in every entry.... is there a plan to digitize B&GR?
Wax
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"People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it." George Bernard Shaw
“Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you.” Joseph Heller, Catch-22
To my ear (Which has proven to be flawed in the past ) the sonic properties of the Upright Bass and the Washtub Bass are both very different than what Elkins', imitation Bass, sounds like. The experiment, I've described, above, reproduces the sound of what Elkins was doing, pretty closely
Only in my head. I tried once and quickly realized consumer grade OCR software and my scanner weren't up to it. That was about 10 years ago; I'd be up to page 27 by now if I'd stuck with it. Then take another few years to plug it into a database for really good searchability.
You can buy dedicated book scanners & software though. The key is to be able to hang the book off the edge and scan right up close to the spine. Most (all?) consumer scanner hardware has a big bezel around the scan area making them useless for scanning books, especially big fat ones like B&GR. You would have to destroy the book to scan it on the cheap.
And you need pro software to go with it. It has to be really smart, if you think about how B&GR is laid out, blocks of text columns, white space, all splattered around. A lot of OCR s/w doesn't handle columnar formatting very well.
Which is to say this would not be cheap, but it would be killer. And, of course, just as you get finished, a new edition comes out. It would be better to offer OUP a million quid for a digital copy; they have it.
And now back to Alfred Elkins, sorry for the hijack.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2017, 07:06:07 PM by Rivers »
The UW Music Library has a copy of B&GR, so no need for me to shell out the bucks for my own copy or go through the rigamarole of scanning it. Anyway, doing so would be in violation of copyright laws unless it was done in accord with the terms of "fair use."
Adobe Acrobat 11 has a function that makes scanned texts searchable ("Text Recognition"). The way to do it is to go to a copy center with quality copiers--and inexpensive prices. Using a "mask," "edge erase," and "enlarge/reduce," you first make copies of the pages of the journal or book so each page proportionally fills an 8 1/2" x 11" page (as it comes out of the copier). Then you run the pages through your scanner using autofeed and save them as a single PDF file. Then you open the file in Acrobat 11 Pro and run the "Text Recognition" function that turns it into a searchable PDF file.
I've done this a few times for articles in old journals that aren't available as searchable text online. It's definitely handy to have the finished product, but requires an investment in time and copy costs to get there--Time and money you will never get back.
Edited to add: I just tried the "Text Recognition" function on the scan of the liner notes to the Herwin "Henry Thomas" LP that some of you are familiar with. Appears to work like a charm.
And some copy machines now have a scan to PDF and save to USB function that could be used to save a few steps.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 07:36:56 AM by Stuart »
2. Click on the LOOK INSIDE! link, top left, the book cover image
3. On the Look Inside popup find the 'Search Inside This Book' input box at bottom left and type 'imb'. A list appears under the search box.
It does not seem to be restricted to just the pages available when you scroll through the body of the book. Heres what I got listed. It's not terribly helpful in this form but on the amazon popup you can click on the item and it takes you to the page, or close to it, I had to scroll to find the few references I checked:
?Shine On Moon (Shine On Shine On) De 7390 Acc. own g; unknown, sb or imb-1? ?recorded 15 October 1945. Acc. own p; Tampa Red, g; Alfred Elkins, imb ... ?BOONE 93 Son Bonds, \fig; Sleepy John Estes, g; Raymond Thomas, imb&b? ?BB B8784 064004-1 Me, Myself, And I BB 88784 Acc. own p; Alfred Elkins, imb. ?Streamline Love Doctor Clayton, v; acc. Blind John Davis, p; Alfred Elkins, imb. ?"BIG BOY" CRUDUP Arthur 'Big Boy' Crudup, v; acc. own g; Joe McCoy, imb. C? ?Boys: John Estes, givilead v-1; Son Bonds, &had v-2; Raymond Thomas, imb. C? ... prob. Bob White, p; unknown, imb. Chicago 053397-1 That's All Right? ?De 7420 Acc. prob. Edgar Saucier, as-1; Honey Hill, p; own g; unknown, imb-2? ... v; acc own h; Big Bill Broonzy, g; Alfred Elkins, imb; Amanda Sorter, wb. ?The Blues TONY HOLLINS Tony Hollins, v; acc. prob. own g; unknown, imb; ? ?BB B8338, MW M8791 Acc. own g; unknown, 2nd g; prob. Alfred Elkins, imb .. ?Blues ROBERT LOCKWOOD Robert Lockwood, v; acc. own g; Alfred Elkins, imb. ?Minnie BB 88704 053743-1 Elsie Blues BB B8725 Acc. own g; Joe McCoy, imb ... ?v/g; Charlie McCoy, md; poss. Ransom Knowling or Alfred Elkins, imb; Ama? ?of this name, comprising Dick, Leo, h; Tony, cl; Sam, g; Smokey, imb; J? ... Blind John Davis, p; Lonnie Johnson, gisp-1; Willie Mitchell, imb. Chi? ... Roosevelt Sykes, pisp-1; Alfred Elkins, imb. Chicago. Tuesday, 11 November 19? ?Jimmy, v; acc. Roosevelt Sykes, p; Big Bill Broonzy, g; Alfred Elkins, imb. C? ... ROBERT PETWAY Robert Petway, v; acc. own g; prob. Alfred Elkins, imb. ... own p; unknown, imb-I; unknown, vb-2. Chicago. Friday, 30 April 1937 912? ... Robert Lee McCoy, h; own g; Alfred Elkins, imb. Chicago. Friday, 1 August? ... imb-3; Washboard Sam, wbiv. Monday, 14 March 1938 Revs: Bluebird B? ?MW M8803 BB B8500, MW M8805 BB B8500, MW M8805 g; unknown, imb? ... Leroy Bachelor, imb; Washboard Sam, wb/v; Josephine Kyles, sp-1. ... BOB WHITE Bob White "The Woogie Man", v; acc. own p; unknown, imb. Ch? ... own g; William Mitchell, imb. Chicago. 053989-1 Crawlin' King Snake 053? ... own h; Blind John Davis, p; Big Bill Broonzy, g; prob. William Mitchell, imb. Chic? ... Acc. own h; Blind John Davis, p; Charlie McCoy, g; Alfred Elkins, imb-1; Was? ?1008; Sonny Boy Williamson, 1046 *McCoy, Joe (Kansas Joe), g/imb A? ?Louis, d Ciro's Club Coon Orchestra, 160 Mitchell, William 'Willie', imb Clara? ?111 Thomas, Percy, g McKinley Morganfield, 663 Thomas, Raymond, imb?
It's a hack, and flakier than upstate NY in December, but better than nothing. It also indicates Amazon or a third party have the whole book scanned.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2017, 05:05:36 PM by Rivers »
Well Riv, I just put some good old hard work into it and spent some down time over the last few weeks copying info by typing into a Word doc, and my results look a lot more useful. Here's the list of imb players I came up with by just visually scanning the Index to Accompanists (about 45 pages). At first I was going to include sb (double bass) and bb, (brass bass or tuba) but that was way too much. I did include j (jug) due to my own personal interest, and any other instrument that seemed like a string or aural bass sound. The Index to Accompanists doesn't include those players who's name appears only on recordings as a primary artist, so I added Gus Cannon who only appears on the list as a banjo player since all his jug work was for the band bearing his name. Those artists who also recorded as primary artists are marked by an asterisk, altho they may or may not have played the instrument designated in their own recordings. If anyone can think of another imb or j player who only recorded as a primary artist please let me know. Bands and page numbers of entries in B&GR are given.
Accompanist
Instruments
Primary Artist & B&GR Page Number
Leroy Ba(t)chelor
imb
Washboard Sam 987
Thomas James Carroll
tin-can bull-fiddle
Nashville Washboard Band 672
*Gus Cannon
j
Cannon?s Jug Stompers 136-7
Clayborn
j
Charles Griffin 329
Henry Clifford
j
Dixieland Jug Blowers 218
Al Collins
imb
Jazz Gillum 299
Willie Dixon
bass cano
The Five Breezes 262
Alfred Elkins
imb, sb, v bass, bass cano
See full discography below
*D.M. ?Doctor? Higgs
j
Jack Kelly 505
Honeycup
j
Birmingham Jug Band 73
*Jab Jones
j
Charlie Burse 125; Memphis Jug Band 612-5; Picaninny Jug Band 720; Will Shade 788; Minnie Wallace 978
*Sam Jones (Stovepipe No. 1)
stovepipe
King David?s Jug Band 508
Ham(bone) Lewis
j
Kaiser Clifton 165; Noah Lewis 544; Memphis Jug Band 613-4
*Joe McCoy
imb
Arthur ?Big Boy? Crudup 188; Tommy McClennon 558
*Earl McDonald
j
Dixieland Jug Blowers 218-19; Ben Ferguson 256; John Harris 357; Clifford Hayes 366; Sara Martin 604; Old Southern Jug Band 691; Jimmie Rodgers 767
Jonesie Mack
washtub
Plantation Echoes 723
Mississippi Sarah
j
Tampa Red 887
William ?Willie? Mitchell
imb, bass cano
Clara Morris 664; Yank Rachel 737; Washboard Sam 987; Joe Williams 1039; Sonny Boy Williamson 1045
Hammie Nixon
j
Son Bonds 92; Leothus (Lee) Green 327 (poss)
Charlie Polk
j
Memphis Jug Band 611-12
Roosevelt Pursley
j
Tommie Bradley 99; James Cole 166-7
Raymond Thomas
imb
Son Bonds 93; Sleepy John Estes 248
Rudolph J Thompson
j
Whistler And His Jug Band 1013
B.D. Tite
j
Whistler And His Jug Band 1012
James Ward
j
Four Southern Singers 271
Sarah Watson
j
Daddy Stovepipe And Mississippi Sarah 192
Clarence Williams
j
Seven Gallon Jug Band 787
Well, no matter what I do, the formatting wrecks havoc on my nice columns. I'll post Alfred Elkins expanded discography in a new post.
Wax
[wax, I reformatted the list using table markup to get you a nice column format - rivers]
« Last Edit: October 16, 2020, 12:23:32 PM by waxwing »
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"People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it." George Bernard Shaw
“Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you.” Joseph Heller, Catch-22
So here is Alfred Elkins complete discography in chronological order, except on days when he did sessions with two different bands I wasn't able to assess which came first. This was a really interesting project so thanks much, Johnm for bringing this up. It is amazing to see all the artists he accompanied and also played along side of.
Alfred Elkins appears to be a pretty popular studio player, late in the pre-war era, for Bluebird and some for Vocalion, both recording in Chicago. He starts out in '38 with Vocalion playing sb (double bass) behind Blind John Davis' piano with George Barnes playing an eg (electric guitar!). The following year he has three sessions performing v bass, the first with Merline Johnson, (The Yas Yas Girl) and two more with Jesse Coleman (Monkey Joe) and then Roosevelt Scott. Having listened to some of the Yas Yas Girl sides, he is very clearly just singing do do doo do do do doo basslines. (I'll present some example from YouTube in a later post)
In 1940 he has moved over to Bluebird and is recorded playing imb for the first time. He is first heard as part of a vocal quintet, the Lewis Bronzeville Five, in which he sings the baritone harmony and plays imb at the same time. The second session is on the same date as a Jazz Gillum session. The listing is "prob Alfred Elkins or Al Collins, imb;". Elkins went on to play several Jazz Gillum sessions in the next few years, and this could have been his big break. A couple weeks later he was brought in to back Lonnie Johnson.
I'll post these years and hope they fit within the limit, Wherever (poss....) or (prob....) appears it read "poss Alfred Elkins" in the entry, with the instrument listed after.
Alfred Elkins Discography 1938-40
38.04.07 sb Blind John Davis v,p; George Barnes eg, Chicago Vo Jersey Cow Blues Booze Drinking Benny
38.05.19 sb Blind John Davis v,p; George Barnes eg, Chicago Vo Alley Woman Blues Got The Blues So Bad
38.11.10 sb Blind John Davis v,p; George Barnes eg-1, Chicago Vo I Love My Josephine -1 Anna Lou Breakdown
39.08.31 v bass Yas Yas Girl (Merline Johnson) v; Chicago Vo And Her Jazz Boys: Lee Collins t; Buster Bennett as; prob. Joshua Altheimer p; unknown g; Fine And Mellow Nobody Knows How I Feel I Need You By My Side You Can?t Have None Of That I Got To Have It Daddy Don?t Have To Sing The Blues You?re A Pain In The Neck To Me I?d Rather Be Drunk I Just Keep On Drinking
39.09.13 v bass Monkey Joe (Jesse Coleman) v, p; Chicago Vo, OK-1 And His Music Grinders: Buster Bennett as, Big Bill Broonzy g; You Don?t Have To Tell Me Carry My Business On Mountain Baby Blues Just Give Some Away Bad Luck Man Blues -1 Bitin? On Me Old Man Blues -1 McComb City Blues -1 Same Cat We Can?t Get Along -1
39.09.13 v bass (prob?.) Roosevelt Scott v; Chicago Vo prob. Jesse Coleman p; Big Bill Broonzy g; Black Gal Blues Send Me An Angel Down Do You Call That Right? Brown Skin Woman Swing
40.04.11 bar v,imb Lewis Bronzeville Five (Mabel Chicago BB Sanford Lewis mngr.) Royale Brent lead v; Arthur Butler tenor v, tiple; Benny Holman tenor v,g; Clyde Townes bass v,g; Laughing At Life Linda Brown Cotton Blosom Blues Low Down Gal Blues
40.05.09 bar v,imb Lewis Bronzeville Five (Mabel Chicago BB Sanford Lewis mngr.) Royale Brent lead v; Arthur Butler tenor v, tiple; Benny Holman tenor v,g; Clyde Townes bass v,g; Mississippi Fire Blues Natchez Mississippi Blues Oh! Mabel, Oh! It Can Happen To You
40.05.09 imb (prob?. or Al Collins) Jazz Gillum v,h; Chicago BB Big Bill Broonzy g; I Sure Had A Kick She Belongs To Me Longest Train Blues Key To The Highway
40.05.22 imb (prob?.) Lonnie Johnson v,g; unknown g; Chicago BB Be Careful I?m Just Dumb Don?t Be No Fool Get Yourself Together
Wax
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"People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it." George Bernard Shaw
“Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you.” Joseph Heller, Catch-22
Thanks very much, Wax, for pursuing this issue so vigorously, and spending so much time compiling this information in a digestible format. What you've discovered so far would seem to indicate that "imitation bass" was not a single thing, even for Alfred Elkins, since on some recordings he supplied it vocally, and other others he could not possibly have done that, since he was singing a baritone part simultaneous with providing the imitation bass. I guess I would be interested to know if for imitation bass players/singers other than Alfred Elkins, if the effect was achieved a variety of ways, or was most often achieved via a specific means, e.g. vocally, washtub bass, or something else. Probably many or most of the recordings by imitation bass players other than Alfred Elkins have not widely been heard, but maybe they have been. Thanks again for your industry and diligence, Wax. All best, Johnm
1941 was Elkins biggest year, and the list of performers he backed and played with is amazing. He was particularly busy toward the end of the year. The first session, in March, was another with Jazz Gillum and is Elkins first listing as playing bass cano. The B&GR listing states "prob. Alfred Elkins, bass cano [sic, per Bluebird files];". Broonzy and Washboard Sam rounded out the group. The bass cano is very audible on most of the 4 titles recorded and I'll post YouTube versions in a later post. A week later he backs Robert Petway's first session on imb.
Then in July he backs Willie ?61? Blackwell for a set (imb), a couple weeks later possibly plays with Big Joe (Joe McCoy) And His Rhythm. The listing states "prob. Ransom Knowling or Alfred Elkins, imb;" and also playing were Robert Lee McCoy, h, Charley McCoy, md, and Amanda Sortier, wb. The next day he was back in with Gillum on imb along with Broonzy and Amanda Sorter. A week later he backed Robert Lockwood for 4 sides and a couple days after that Walter Vincson (imb)
His output in the last two months of '41 are amazing: 12 different sessions and 70 sides recorded. I won't bother to list all the artists, but it's a veritable who's who of late pre-war era recording artists. on 12/12/41 he backed Joe Williams on bass cano for 6 sides (inc. Baby Please Don't Go) for Bluebird and also backed Memphis Minnie on sb for 8 sides with Little Son Joe and then backed Little Son Joe on sb for a couple sides. Minnie and Joe were recording for OK/Columbia. A week later he finished the year backing Big Maceo next to Tampa Red. Musta had a good Christmas that year.
Alfred Elkins Discography 1941
41.03.20 bass cano [sic, per Bluebird files] (prob?.) Chicago BB Jazz Gillum v,h; Big Bill Broonzy g; Washboard Sam wb; I?m Still Walking The Hi-Way Get Your Business Straight Muddy Pond Blues Little Woman
41.03.28 imb Robert Petway v,g; Chicago BB Catfish Blues Ride ?Em On Down Rockin? Chair Blues My Little Girl Let Me Be Your Boss Left My Baby Crying Sleepy Woman Blues
41.07.03 imb Willie ?61? Blackwell v,g; Chicago BB She?s Young And Wild Noiseless Motor Blues Don't Misuse Me, Baby Bald Eagle Blues Four O'Clock Flower Blues Chalk My Toy Machine Gun Blues Rampaw Street Blues
41.07.23 imb (prob. Ransom Knowlings or?) Chicago BB Big Joe (Joe McCoy) v,g; And His Rhythm: prob. Robert Lee McCoy h; Charlie McCoy md; Amanda Sortier wb; What Will I Do? Oh! Red?s Twin Brother We Can?t Agree Let?s Try It Again
41.07.24 imb Jazz Gillum v,h; Big Bill Broonzy g; Chicago BB Amanda Sorter wb; Riley Springs Blues That?s What Worries Me I Got Somebody Else Maybe You?ll Love Me Too It Looks Bad For You Me And My Buddy
41.07.30 imb Robert Lockwood v,g; Chicago BB Black Spider Blues I?m Gonna Train My Baby Little Boy Blue Take A Little walk With Me
41.08.01 imb Walter Vincson v,g; Robert Lee McCoy h; Chicago BB Every Dog Must Have His Day You Know What You Promised Me Gulf Coast Bay Rosa Lee Blues Can?t Get A Word In Edgeways She?s Leaving Me
41.11.04 imb Washboard Sam v, wb; And His Washboard Chicago BB Band: Memphis Slim p; Big Bill Broonzy g; Let Me Play Your Vendor Broadcast Blues Gonna Hit The Highway I?ve Been Treated Wrong Evil Blues Get Down Brother Lover?s Lane Blues You Stole My Love
41.11.11 imb Peter J. ?Doctor? Clayton v, Chicago BB Blind John Davis p Doctor Clayton Blues Watch Out Mama Cheating And Lying Blues Gotta Find My Baby
41.11.11 imb St Louis Jimmy (Jimmy Olden) v; Chicago BB Roosevelt Sykes p,sp-1; Monkey Face Blues -1 Come Day Go Day Lost Ball Blues Going Down Slow
41.11.21 sb Roosevelt Sykes (The Honey Dripper) v,p; Chicago Co, OK-1 Mellow Queen Swing Floating Power Blues Make Up Your Mind Training Camp Blues -1 Back Biting Snitchers You Got To Run Me Down From The Cradle To The Grave Motherless Child
41.12.04 imb Peter Chatman v,p; Chicago BB Whiskey And Gin Blues You Gonna Worry Too This Life I?m Living Caught the Old Coon At Last Don?t Think That You?re Smart Lend Me Your Love
41.12.05 sb or imb Jazz Gillum v,h; Horace Malcom p; Chicago BB Big Bill Broonzy g; It?s All Over Now War Time Blues You Are Doing Me Wrong One Letter Home Down South Blues You Drink Too Much Whiskey No Friend Blues From Now On
41.12.11 imb Sonny Boy Williamson v,h; Chicago BB Blind John Davis p; Charlie McCoy g; Ground Hog Blues Black Panther Blues Broken Heart Blues
41.12.11 bass cano Yank Rachel v,g; Chicago BB Sony Boy Williamson h, sp-1;Washborad Sam wb; Yellow Yam Blues Tappin?That Thing Rainy Day Blues Peach Tree Blues She Loves Who She Please Bye Bye Blues Loudella Blues -1
41.12.12 bass cano Joe Williams v,g; Sonny Boy Williamson h; Chicago BB Throw A Boogie Woogie North Wind Blues Please Don?t Go Highway 49 Someday Baby Break ?Em On Down
41.12.12 sb Memphis Minnie v,g; Little Son Joe g; Chicago OK, Co-1 I?m Not A Bad Girl You Got To Get Out Of Here -1 Don?t Turn The Card -1 Looking The World Over It Was You Baby You Need A Friend -1 I Am Sailin? -1 Remember Me Blues -1
41.12.12 sb Little Son Joe v,g; Memphis Minnie g; Chicago OK, Co-1 Black Rat Swing Just Had To Holler-1
41.12.19 imb Big Maceo v/p, Tampa Red g Chicago BB Tuff Luck Blues I Got The Blues It?s All Up To You Bye, Bye, Baby Why Should I Hang Around? Poor Kelly Blues
Wax
« Last Edit: January 22, 2017, 01:57:22 PM by waxwing »
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"People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it." George Bernard Shaw
“Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you.” Joseph Heller, Catch-22