Topic: HELP! Johnson Tricone Body Buzz

[Dr. G]

...Speaking further about Tricone knockoffs and such...

My own favorite "reissue" is the (cheapo) Johnson entry into a long-neglected market. [Tricones were one of the most spectacularly successful inventions in the history of guitar making.]

Over the years I have played (and possessed) dozens of Tricone guitars from originals to the latest manufactured in the Czech Republic and China.

For my taste, the best bang for the buck -- and simultaneously, the closest thing to that original Tricone sound [short of a custom-built instrument, of course] -- is the Johnson. I was so pleased whent this version was introduced that I sprang for several of them (so I could leave one at my summer home, keep one tuned in Vastapol and another in Spanish, etc. -- and secured several more for friends and students who wanted great sound but had limited enthusiasm for spending big dollars).

I had the nuts replaced so that a narrower string spacing could be achieved (I don't know why the Johnson spacing is so wide), and then set about the task of trying to eliminate "body buzz" -- whether emanating from the cones, the bridge arrangement, or some other construction defect. (I also returned several to the dealers because the buzzing was so bad.)

Long story short: despite numerous attempts to eradicate that annoying body buzz -- and having luthiers attempt to do same -- I have not been able to lick this fatal mechanical flaw on what is otherwise a very nice sounding guitar. We have taken the thing apart and put it back together dozens of times, and yet never have been satisfied that we have found the root of the problem, or been able to squelch it once and for all. EVERY Johnson Tricone I have played (20 or more?) has had this problem to a greater or lesser degree.

I am convinced that if I can just have a eureka moment -- and figure out the basic problem [other than "general cheapness" -- because that's an emotional response, not a scientific one!] -- I can transform an annoyingly quirky guitar into a "standby".

Despite the "obvious" attribution of the buzz to loose cones or loose screws (usually the case with vintage reso guiitars), I am currently working on a theory that something about the bridge-saddle arrangement is faulty...the Johnson Tricone buzz can usually be silenced by putting heel of the hand pressure on the tailpiece, or deadening the tailpiece with a rubber capo sleeve under the tailpiece. But the buzz problem remains extremely elusive -- for it tends to come and go in a capricious manner.

I have no doubt that enough Johnson tricones have been sold -- and enough players have been unhappy about the buzz -- that SOMEBODY has doped out this problem better than I!

In behalf of all victims of Johnson tricone body buzz, I am begging anyone with a better idea to lend a hand!

Appreciatively,

Dr. G

[Slack]

Hi Dr G, Have you tried replacing the cones?

Seen this and other related threads on the acoustic guitar forum?

http://www.guitarseminars.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/005063.html

[Stuart]

Hi Dr. G:

You might try using a mechanic's stethoscope to get inside the body and narrow down the source of the buzz. It's worth a shot. Also, string it up with the cover plate off--might make it easier. I've heard of a few fixes over the decades: fuzzy felt-like contact paper (the kind that is used for the base of various objects to prevent scratching the surface that they are placed on), a dab of RTV gasket maker, plumber's putty, etc.--all used in minimal amounts, and with extreme care.)

FYI: here's a link to yet another reso maker:

http://marksimonguitars.com/

[slidnslim]

 I work more on vintage Nationals than the asian stuff but
 I've encountered a few Johnson Tricones in the past years
 nine times out of ten,the cone plat-forms are deformed
 (out of flat) and the buzzing eminates form there,

 check the plat-form with a straight edge, the cones must contact
 it all the way around each one,

 Please don't add any gaskets and the like(not kosher)unless
 you use thin felt,

 The original National tricones came from the factory with
 a paper gasket,but they sound better with out them!

 Kenny,

[Dr. G]

Thanks, Slack, Stuart, and Kenny --

Great suggestions, all....

Slack -- no, I was unaware of the acoustic guitar forum. Thanks for the link. Have had some fun there in the past couple of days. I particularly enjoyed the discussion about "mushrooms".

Stuart -- appreciated the diagnostic and palliative tips...I have no compunction about trying ANYTHING (including roofing tar, if necessary) on a third-millenium knockoff with zero vintage value this century. (Wouldn't use the roofing tar on an orignal, tho....)

Kenny -- I suspect that your diagnosis of un-level resonator shelf is on the money. I just pulled the coverplate and notice that at least one of the cones seems to be in less intimate contact with the shelf at various bridge tensions. I have a feeling that this is a job for a gasket -- can't imagine that there are ways to flush up metal. Fortunately the sound of these instruments is so "hot" anyway that the muting effect of a gasket might actually improve the tone to my ears [like the clawhammer banjo player's sponge between the dowel stick and head of his Tubaphone or Whyte Laydie -- two very "hot" tonerings that can be shrill with overtones]. The notion of a warped resonator shelf had never occurred to me: I figured it would be stable because it is metal...forgetting that metal is every bit as reactive to temperature changes as wood is to humidity changes....

FWIW, both my (custom) wood-bodied Tricones and a rehabbed original that I once had were outfitted with wood resonater shelfs [like Dobros], and still sound terrific.

Also, FWIW, I once acquired some original Tricone cones (sans guitar) that were accompanied by what appeared to be light hemp rope gaskets...figured they were original, but now wonder if they were somebody's 1940's attempt to de-buzz their cones...?

Thanks all, for responding to my S.O.S. -- and anybody else out there who has an ingenious...or even psychotic...inspiration about how to maximize the signal-to-noise ratio of these instruments, I'd still love to hear about it!

Dr. G

[Michael Segui]

Once the cones on my tricone were replaced with NRP cones, I have had almost zero buzzing...