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Country Blues => Country Blues Licks and Lessons => Topic started by: Johnm on September 18, 2006, 02:16:33 PM

Title: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: Johnm on September 18, 2006, 02:16:33 PM
Hi all,
It occurred to me that we have threads devoted to non-slide tunes in Spanish and Vestapol, cross-note, and F in standard tuning, but have never had a thread devoted to song played in dropped-D tuning.  It's a tuning that I believe has been used much more in the post-'60s performance of Country Blues than in earlier years, but is still encountered a fair amount in older recordings.  Just to get the ball rolling, I'll name a few, but limit myself to four.  Feel free to add to the list.
   * "Statesboro Blues"--Blind Willie McTell
   * "Overtime Blues"--Walter Vinson
   * "I Get Evil when My Love Comes Down"--Gabriel Brown (from the new JSP set, "Shake That Thing!  East Coast Blues 1935--1953")
   * "Goin' Down Slow"--Mance Lipscomb, played in A
All best,
Johnm
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: Pan on September 18, 2006, 02:29:00 PM
Hi Johnm

I've enjoyed the threads discussing tunes in Vestapol and Spanish a lot, since I'm very inexperienced with open tunings. I've gathered courage for some time to propose a thread with dropped D. Thanks for starting one!

Two songs come to mind: William Moore's One Way Gal, and Old Country Rock (which of course are more or less the same song).

Yours

Pan
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: uncle bud on September 18, 2006, 05:14:18 PM
Two that come to mind, stemming from a recent Blind Blake binge, are Bad Feeling Blues and Chump Man Blues.

There are songs that could be played in dropped D but I don't think we're played that way originally. Tommy Johnson's Canned Heat Blues is certainly one that's been covered in dropped D (I play it that way too sometimes). I originally thought Papa Charlie Jackson's We Can't Buy It No More was in dropped D but have decided it isn't and is more likely using the 5th string A as the bottom bass string as is common in songs in D, for example in John Hurt's playing. But it could easily be done in dropped D.

Bo Carter is another person I believe played in dropped D, though I can't think of anything right now.

The Mississippi Sheiks' songs based around Stop and Listen Blues, itself an resetting of Big Road Blues, and Vinson's Overtime Blues, have several similar songs. Church Bell Blues, She's Crazy 'bout Her Lovin', Kitty Cat Blues, Somebody's Got to Help Me, Good Morning Blues, Lonesome Grave Took My Baby, Pop Skull Blues (thanks to Frankie for a quick reminder of the songs with this tuning :)  at www.donegone.net).
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: waxwing on September 18, 2006, 07:54:18 PM
One Bo Carter song in Drop D would be Policy Man Blues. Must be more. I'll check wih Chezz, as he does a lot of Bo.

All for now.
John C.
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: Yves on September 19, 2006, 07:30:57 AM
There are so many Lonnie Johnson's that they can't be listed here.
Almost his complete repertoire !!!

I'll check Bo carter's when back home

Yves the froggy
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: Johnm on September 20, 2006, 04:55:02 PM
Hi all,
When I first listened to the JSP set "Shake That Thing!  East Coast Blues 1935-1953" I was struck by how many tunes Gabriel Brown recorded in dropped-D tuning.  Going back today and listening more carefully, that impression was corroborated.  Out of 41 tracks Gabriel Brown has on the 4-CD set, 14 (!) are played out of dropped-D tuning.  They are:
   * I Get Evil When My Love comes Down
   * You Ain't No Good
   * Going My Way
   * Down In The Bottom
   * Bad Love
   * I've Got To Stop Drinkin'
   * Not Now, I'll Tell You When
   * That's Alright
   * I've Done Stopped Gamblin'
   * Baby, Boy, Baby
   * Mean Old Blues"
   * Hold Me Baby
   * Youngster's Blues
   * I Am Playing The Game
Apart from the sheer volume of songs played in dropped-D, Gabriel Brown's songs played in that tuning are interesting in that they are all in D and are in a variety of tempos, forms and rhythmic feels, so he was not just recycling the same accompaniment and soloing ideas over and over again (though there is certainly some repetition, with so many songs played in the same tuning).  If any of you are particular fans of the dropped-D sound, you would be well-advised to pick up this set.
All best,
Johnm
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: Johnm on September 29, 2006, 07:18:30 PM
Hi all,
I thought of a couple more played in this tuning:
   * New Lovin' Blues--Buddy Moss
   * Dark Road Blues--Willie Lofton
   * Little Woman, You're So Sweet, as played by John Jackson
All best,
Johnm
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: awoolmd on October 08, 2006, 08:14:14 AM
Tommy Johnson-Big road blues
Blind Arthur Blake-Chump man
And, the entire repetoire od Bahamian genious Joseph Spence, starting with Great dream from heaven
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: Prof Scratchy on October 08, 2006, 11:12:31 AM
And what about Lonnie Johnson? I ask because I've read he played a lot in Bo Carter tuning (G6) but in the key of D. I don't get this, as all of that stuff seems accessible in dropped D to me...does anyone have a definitive view??
Prof S
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: GhostRider on October 09, 2006, 09:47:19 AM
Prof.:

Some of LJ stuff, in the IV chord sections (G) is impossible w/o G6 tuning. That doesn't mean by any streach that he did all his stuff in G6, but some for sure. "Life Saver Blues" is one that's in G6 for sure.

BTW, lately I've been expreimenting with a partial capo to play dropped D tunes. Place capo on standard tuned guitar at fret 2, capo does not touch low E string, giving dropped D sound (in E). But when playing the IV chord, G, the chord is complete, you dont have to avoid the low E string. Really cool.

Alex
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: SteveMcBill on October 09, 2006, 11:11:48 AM
"Old Country Rock"

Steve
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: Prof Scratchy on October 09, 2006, 02:16:16 PM
Quote
Some of LJ stuff, in the IV chord sections (G) is impossible w/o G6 tuning. That doesn't mean by any streach that he did all his stuff in G6, but some for sure. "Life Saver Blues" is one that's in G6 for sure.
Thanks for pointing me in the direction of this track which I've listened to several times now. Sadly, I'm still not getting this at all -and I'm sure I must be missing something pretty fundamental. So Ghostrider, how are you fingering the G chord here? In dropped D it's : first finger second string third fret; second finger third string fourth fret; third finger sixth string fifth fret. This sounds to me like what he's doing on this track. No?? Tell me the secret here! I know I'll be kicking myself when the penny finally drops!
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: GhostRider on October 09, 2006, 09:05:18 PM
Prof:

Thanks for your analysis.

I think most of the G6 stuff is in the bass.

D: fingered
1 string  5 fret
2nd string  3 fret
3rd string  5 fret

the rest open (D(4), G(5), D(5)

G: fingering
1 string  5 fret
2 string  3 string
3 string  4 string

The rest open D(4), G(5), D(not played)

In the D section (first bar) the bass goes:

D(6 string open), D(4 string open), F#(6 string 4 fret), D (4 string open)

The second bar (IV chord, G) goes:

G(5 string open), D(4 string open), F#(6 string 4 fret), D(4 string open).

I respect your analysis. I just hear a root (G bass) at the beginning of the second bar. To get a G bass in Dropped D, you'd need to fret the 6 string at the 5 fret. Whereas this is not impossible, I think its easier in G6. What do you think?

Alex
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: Prof Scratchy on October 10, 2006, 10:46:16 AM
Thanks Ghostrider - I can't wait to give this a try. I think you're right about the importance of the bass in this number...I'm slow at hearing these nuances, and it's only when I see someone actually doing it that I usually pick up on these things. I'll give this a try and let you know how I get on.
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: Johnm on October 16, 2006, 06:53:56 PM
Hi all,
There is a dropped-D piece on the new JSP "Blind Boy Fuller, Volume 2" set, performed by a musician who was new to me.  Sonny Jones, who was evidently from Wilson, North Carolina, plays "Dough Roller" in dropped-D tuning, and it is really excellent with some nice individual touches and a voicing of G up the neck that I have never heard anyone else play.  This one is worth seeking out.
All best,
Johnm
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: Rivers on October 17, 2006, 10:55:12 PM
I was under the impression MJH's Sliding Delta, Trouble Had It All My Days(?), Stagger Lee, Monday Morning Blues, CC Rider were all recorded in drop D, probably others.
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: Pan on October 18, 2006, 12:53:51 AM
I was under the impression MJH's Sliding Delta, Trouble Had It All My Days(?), Stagger Lee, Monday Morning Blues, CC Rider were all recorded in drop D, probably others.

Hi

Isn't Monday Morning Blues in standard tuning :-\? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Yours

Pan

Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: Johnm on October 18, 2006, 10:29:14 AM
Hi all,
You are right, Pan, "Monday Morning Blues" is in A, standard tuning.  "Sliding Delta" is in E, standard tuning, and "Trouble, I've Had It all My Days", "Stackerlee" and "C C Rider" are all in D, standard tuning.  I don't know of any John Hurt tunes that he played in dropped-D, though he played in D, standard tuning quite a lot.  Tom Paley recorded John Hurt's "Stackerlee" in dropped-D many moons ago.
All best,
Johnm
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: Rivers on October 18, 2006, 05:15:54 PM
Hmmm, not sure I agree. Monday... is in A though I agree, sorry about that. I've always played Sliding Delta in drop D (think that may have come from some teaching materials I ingested) The other D tunes I think I can hear the bottom D clearly. But it might just be old age so I'd better check this carefully and cite recordings.
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: uncle bud on October 18, 2006, 09:30:19 PM
I had played some John Hurt stuff in D out of dropped D, and I think I picked that up from some instructional material somewhere. Closer listening suggested no dropped D anywhere. Easy enough to do in dropped D in some cases though.
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: Pan on October 19, 2006, 09:54:21 AM
I had played some John Hurt stuff in D out of dropped D, and I think I picked that up from some instructional material somewhere. Closer listening suggested no dropped D anywhere. Easy enough to do in dropped D in some cases though.

I've seen transcriptions in Dropped-D, where the 6th string is never played -now THAT'S what i would call a good ear :P

Cheers

Pan
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: Rivers on October 21, 2006, 08:14:14 AM
It's a shame the two extant videos of John playing, Spike Driver and Lonesome Valley, both available on Youtube I notice, are in G std. Great to watch but would be fabulous to see more in different keys. I think I got my drop D versions from Stefan, and was sure it was dropped, and now I'm not so sure. Thanks for the revision guys. My version of Stagger Lee in particular has morphed into something else entirely with lyric and guitar steals from other versions and tunes so I'll probably have to keep on doing it that way. Folk process y'understand.
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: Rivers on October 21, 2006, 10:45:54 AM
According to Stefan G. In a burst of enthusiasm after seeing those two on one of the GW tapes I emailed him asking the question. Regretfully that's all there is. It would be nice to think there are more that have never surfaced.
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: Johnm on October 21, 2006, 11:58:55 AM
Hi all,
There actually is some additional film footage of John Hurt, but it is silent!  It was made by some film students who were trying to get funding for a documentary on John Hurt.  It was filmed when John was living in Washington D.C., and he is playing at home with two of his little grandchildren there and his wife joins them briefly, too.  It is the first time I ever saw him without a hat.  There are beautiful shots of his hands and it's fun to figure out what tunes he was playing just from watching the silent footage.  Louisa Spottswood had this footage for many years and made it available to Stefan Grossman.  It is included at the end of Volume 1 of the John Hurt instructional video I did for Stefan.
All best,
Johnm
Also, evidently a John Hurt appearance on the Tonight Show from the '60s was lost when some underling at NBC decided it no longer important or necessary to pay rent for a storage unit where films of the shows from that era were kept.  So unnecessary!  There have long been rumors of there being footage of a festival appearance John Hurt did in Canada, but I don't think it has ever surfaced.
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: Johnm on October 21, 2006, 12:32:47 PM
Hi all,
John Jackson's beautiful "Rappahannock Blues", from his "Front Porch Blues" CD on Alligator, is in dropped-D.
All best,
Johnm
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: Slack on October 21, 2006, 04:35:44 PM
Quote
There are beautiful shots of his hands and it's fun to figure out what tunes he was playing just from watching the silent footage.

Yes, it is wonderful footage... even though it is silent.  I think it is a niece (if memory serves) that it sitting listening to him play... you feel like a fly on a wall.

Maybe we should have a contest to figure out what he is playing - first one to post the correct tune gets: 2 Weenieolgy CDs, Weenie Sticker, Juke Sticker, Fly Swatter - the full monty.  :P
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: uncle bud on October 26, 2006, 11:44:39 PM
While walking the big black beast today, I listened several times on minidisc to Bo Carter's "I Keep On Spending My Change". This is a really wonderful song which, while I haven't yet verified with a guitar, sounds to me to be very much in the "Overtime Blues" vein of songs out of dropped D. It has a lot of Bo Carter extras as well, and is a particularly interesting tune IMO, with Bo in a mellow mood overall, but singing just wonderfully. This is a primo candidate for Overtime Blues players to expand their repertoire with some niftier riffs, and a new gem for me out of the Bo Carter oeuvre. He sounds tremendously relaxed, even for Bo. It is available on Document Volume 2, which is one of only two Bo discs actually available from Document at this time as it turns out, and is a great CD.

It would seem to me that the Chatmon clan, including obviously Walter Vinson, could make a good claim to being a kind of dropped D school really.
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: Johnm on November 22, 2006, 06:43:28 PM
Hi all,
Another Bo Carter tune in Dropped-D that is getting a lot of play over at Lyric and Licks:  "Twist It, Baby".
All best,
Johnm
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: Johnm on January 24, 2007, 11:48:02 PM
Hi all,
Delaware songster Frank Hovington played his original instrumental, "90 Going North" out of Dropped-D tuning.
All best,
Johnm
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: Johnm on March 08, 2007, 11:37:26 PM
Hi all,
I heard two songs played in dropped-D tonight by a musician I had never heard before.  He recorded as "Poor Bill" in 1939 for the Varsity label in New York, and his two tracks, "Way Up On The Mountain" and "A Hundred Women", can be found on the Document disc "Blues & Gospel From the Eastern States", DOCD-5644.  According to the liner notes, by Dave Moore,
   ". . . .  Composer credits are to William White, and hence the suggestion has been made that the singer is in fact the brother of Josh White, who accompanied Josh vocally on record in the early 1940s, and was part of his group the Carolinians, although no confirmation is available."

Based solely on the sound of Poor Bill's cuts, there is no very compelling reason to assume he had any connection with Josh White, for there is little resemblance to Josh's work either instrumentally or vocally.  Vocally, Poor Bill sounds more like Buddy Moss, and instrumentally he bears a slight resemblance to Scrapper Blackwell, with his predeliction for
" 1 2 + 3  4 +" accenting in the bass.  Bill's single string runs are really exciting and unusual, and occasionally his conceptual reach exceeds his technical grasp, but he sounds pretty great, all the same.  These performances are worth seeking out, and thanks to Ryan Leaf for bringing them to my attention.
All best,
Johnm 

Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: Bunker Hill on March 09, 2007, 10:14:15 AM
I heard two songs played in dropped-D tonight by a musician I had never heard before.  He recorded as "Poor Bill" in 1939 for the Varsity label in New York, and his two tracks, "Way Up On The Mountain" and "A Hundred Women", can be found on the Document disc "Blues & Gospel From the Eastern States", DOCD-5644.  According to the liner notes, by Dave Moore,
   ". . . .  Composer credits are to William White, and hence the suggestion has been made that the singer is in fact the brother of Josh White, who accompanied Josh vocally on record in the early 1940s, and was part of his group the Carolinians, although no confirmation is available."
Purely on a historical note these two sides first appeared on Chris Smith's Policy Wheel label appended to a Gabriel Brown compilation (see Stefan's PW page). This is what Tony Travers had to say in his 1976 booklet:

"The final two tracks here are by an unknown bluesman called Poor Bill, whose real name may well have been William White, to whom the composer credits are given. poor Bill's connection with Gabriel Brown is not a little tenuous, it having been suggested that the latter provides the second guitar accompaniment. Whether or not this is the case, the possibility of Brown's having been in New York in 1930 is an intriguing one. (Poor Bill, to judge by his lyrics, was not unfamiliar with that city.) John Godrich and Bob Dixon described Bill as a "typical mid-thirties performer", an opinion, I feel, that gives insufficient credit to this fine vocalist. The only known issue for these two sides was on Varsity, whose owner, Eli Oberstein, reissued ex-Paramount and Gennett material under pseudonym from 1939 to 1941. It is an interesting, though not necessarily related, coincidence that Joe Davis acquired the Varsity masters not long after Oberstein bankruptcy, in the early forties."
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: Johnm on March 10, 2007, 12:16:58 AM
Hi Bunker Hill,
Your mention of Gabriel Brown in possible connection with Poor Bill made me dig up the recordings of Gabriel Brown I have, to listen and compare them with the playing on Poor Bill's two cuts.  It sounded, after listening to a lot of Gabriel Brown's pieces in dropped-D, that the guitarist on Poor Bill's cuts may have heard Gabriel Brown (he uses one of Gabriel Brown's pet bends), but was a different player.  Gabriel Brown recorded so many more songs in dropped-D tuning than any other East Coast player I'm aware of that hearing of another East Coast player working in that tuning around the same period, suggests the possibility of Gabriel Brown either recording using a pseudonym or being an uncredited accompanist.  I don't think either was the case with the Poor Bill cuts, but it remains a possibility, I suppose.
All best,
John
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: Coyote Slim on March 11, 2007, 05:37:22 PM
Prof:

Thanks for your analysis.

I think most of the G6 stuff is in the bass.

D: fingered
1 string  5 fret
2nd string  3 fret
3rd string  5 fret

the rest open (D(4), G(5), D(5)

G: fingering
1 string  5 fret
2 string  3 string
3 string  4 string

The rest open D(4), G(5), D(not played)

In the D section (first bar) the bass goes:

D(6 string open), D(4 string open), F#(6 string 4 fret), D (4 string open)

The second bar (IV chord, G) goes:

G(5 string open), D(4 string open), F#(6 string 4 fret), D(4 string open).

I respect your analysis. I just hear a root (G bass) at the beginning of the second bar. To get a G bass in Dropped D, you'd need to fret the 6 string at the 5 fret. Whereas this is not impossible, I think its easier in G6. What do you think?

Alex


When I'm playing Lonnie Johnson-style in drop D I use my left thumb to finger the "G" on the bottom string.  So that it looks like, from low to high string: T5 x 5 4 6/3 3....I hope you understand that!   :D  Then the "A" is just the same thing but up two frets with the A string played open this time.
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: Johnm on May 03, 2007, 12:08:54 AM
Hi all,
I found another song in dropped-D on the new JSP "Mississippi Blues" set, played by Mose Andrews, a new name to me who recorded pretty late, in 1937.  The song is "Ten Pound Hammer", and it is in the "Big Road Blues"/"Stop And Listen" tune family.
All best,
Johnm
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: Johnm on June 17, 2007, 03:25:04 PM
Hi all,
A song played in dropped-D that I don't believe has been mentioned here previously is Edward Thompson's "West Virginia Blues".
All best,
Johnm
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: Johnm on July 26, 2007, 08:53:27 AM
Hi all,
Mississippi Bracey's "You Scolded Me and Drove Me", thought to be a duet with his wife, is played in dropped-D, and is very much in the Walter Vinscon "Overtime/Stop and Listen" mold.
All best,
Johnm
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: Johnm on September 26, 2009, 10:36:09 AM
Hi all,
A song that has been discussed at the site recently that was played in dropped-D is Frankie Lee Sims' "Lucy Mae Blues".
All best,
Johnm
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: lostintheblues on October 05, 2009, 06:12:03 AM
Drunken Hearted Man by RJ is dropped D I believe, I don't think it was mentioned before.

That silent footage of John Hurt is really cool to watch also, it was on a video I bought to start to learn how to pick, it was great, started me on my way to where I am now!
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: Norfolk Slim on October 05, 2009, 06:42:00 AM
And, of course, that song's twin- Malted Milk.

Both clearly very heavily influenced by Lonnie Johnson- and not surprisingly adopting his trademark tuning.
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: Pan on October 05, 2009, 08:23:50 AM
Hi all.

I believe that Lucious Curtis' "High Lonesome Hill" is in dropped D. Some of the bass runs seem to end on the low D-note. The song also has a second guitar played by Willie Ford, which of course makes it a bit hard, trying to hear who plays what.
Each chorus also seem to end to a DMaj7 chord, which is not very common in country blues.
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: Johnm on November 09, 2009, 01:58:06 PM
Hi all,
I just heard a tremendous piece by Lightnin' Hopkins in dropped-D, "Crawlin' Black Snake".  I was aware that Lightnin' played anything in this tuning, but he sounds sensational in it, and what's more, has his own sound in it.  This one is definitely worth seeking out.
all best,
Johnm
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: daddystovepipe on November 10, 2009, 11:22:55 AM
Thanks John, I'm very curious where you found/heard that song (cd, lp...?), it sure is a great find.

Best,
Carl
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: Johnm on November 10, 2009, 11:28:16 AM
Hi Carl,
A student who wanted the piece transcribed sent me an mp3 of the piece, Carl (thanks, Ben).  I believe the piece is from one of Lightnin's '60s albums on Prestige.  It is available on CD, I saw it when I was last in Seattle and will check and find out what album it was.  It's a great one, isn't it?
All best,
Johnm
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: Bunker Hill on November 10, 2009, 11:47:56 AM
Hi Carl,
A student who wanted the piece transcribed sent me an mp3 of the piece, Carl (thanks, Ben).  I believe the piece is from one of Lightnin's '60s albums on Prestige.  It is available on CD, I saw it when I was last in Seattle and will check and find out what album it was.  It's a great one, isn't it?
All best,
Johnm
The original LP was entitled "Soul Blues" released in 1966 but recordings made May 1964. "Soul" music was all the rage around then so maybe the reason for the title. Who knows? Not I.
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: banjochris on November 10, 2009, 10:05:59 PM
Hi all,
I just heard a tremendous piece by Lightnin' Hopkins in dropped-D, "Crawlin' Black Snake".  I was aware that Lightnin' played anything in this tuning, but he sounds sensational in it, and what's more, has his own sound in it.  This one is definitely worth seeking out.

I was listening awhile ago to the Gold Star session CDs and realized one of the songs was in dropped-D (and I've listened to those albums many many times, so I was pretty surprised). Going back and listening, it's "Loretta Blues" on Vol. 1.
Chris
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: blueshome on November 11, 2009, 12:27:45 AM
I've always placed Loretta's Blues in Vasterpol.

Incidentally I've seen Louisiana Red do a great Lightnin impersonation in this tuning.
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: daddystovepipe on November 11, 2009, 08:41:45 AM
Thanks John, will check it out.
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: ChrisinWhitwell on August 21, 2010, 06:47:32 AM
Hi all,
A song that has been discussed at the site recently that was played in dropped-D is Frankie Lee Sims' "Lucy Mae Blues".
All best,
Johnm
Thanks John - for the lyrics - I am just catching up after your sessions at EBA!
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: uncle bud on October 09, 2010, 01:05:06 PM
J.W. Warren's song "Hoboing Into Hollywood" is played in dropped D. I have it on the George Mitchell Collection, though it is also on Warren's Life Ain't Worth Livin' CD on Fat Possum. Cool tune.
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: Johnm on January 16, 2011, 11:01:38 AM
Hi all,
I picked up a JSP set yesterday that I hadn't known about, "New York Blues, 1945--1956".  Included in the set on the final disc are the complete (I believe) recorded sides of Carolina Slim, born Edward P. Harris, who put out 27 titles between July 24, 1950 and June 5, 1952.  He died of a heart attack on October 23, 1953, and was only thirty years old at the time.

Carolina Slim was an interesting figure.  According to the set's liner notes, by Neil Slavin, he was from Leasburg, North Carolina, about 35 miles northwest of Durham.  He came from a musical family.  What made him unusual for a Blues musician of his time and location was that he chose as his primary musical model not Blind Boy Fuller, the local favorite, but Lightnin' Hopkins.  The extent to which Carolina Slim copied Lightnin' is beyond what I've encountered in the past, in terms of Blues players closely aping their heroes.  What makes Slim's emulation of Lightnin's music stranger yet is that Slim focused primarily on a tiny subset of Lightnin's recorded repertoire:  his playing in dropped-D tuning.  Of the 27 titles included on the set, the following titles were all played by Carolina Slim in dropped-D tuning, key of D:

   * Jivin' Woman
   * Blues Knocking At My Door
   * Slo-Freight Blues (a cover of Walter Davis's "I Can't See Your Face" in the first verse)
   * Sugaree
   * Your Picture Done Faded (a re-do of "Slo-Freight Blues")
   * Black Cat Trail

Carolina Slim's predilection for dropped-D went even further, though.  He generally preferred to play his songs in A out of dropped-D tuning, as did Mance Lipscomb.  I don't know Lightnin's repertoire well enough to know if he ever used dropped-D tuning to play in A, but by the time he reached the '60s and his Prestige-Bluesville era recordings, I think he played in A out of standard tuning exclusively.  Perhaps Slim came up with his approach for using dropped-D to play in A on his own.  In any event, he recorded the following songs using dropped-D tuning to play in A

   * Come Back Baby
   * Worrying Blues
   * One More Time
   * Mother Dear Mother
   * Georgia Woman
   * Money Blues

The only figure I can think of who had a similarly heavy preponderance of songs in dropped-D in his recorded repertoire is Gabriel Brown, and he did not use dropped-D to play in A.  It kind of makes me wonder if Lightnin' was influenced by Gabriel Brown's recordings in dropped-D, since I know of virtually no recordings in dropped-D by Texas players prior to Lightnin', and then Lightnin's playing obviously influenced Carolina Slim.  At this point, there's obviously no way of knowing. 
Carolina Slim was a decent singer and a really fine guitarist, though the extent to which he was derivative sort of takes one aback upon first hearing.  In fact, I think he had internalized Lightnin's sound so much, at least on guitar, that he was able to play original licks while speaking in Lightnin's musical language, much as Ari Eisinger is able to do in the musical language of Blind Blake.  If you've not heard Carolina Slim before, I think he is definitely worth hearing.
All best,
Johnm


   
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: daddystovepipe on January 16, 2011, 11:49:50 AM
Lightnin' Hopkins did record songs tuned to drop D playing in the key of A, as Mance Lipscomb :
- Ain' It A Shame 1949
- Seems Funny Baby 1949
- Walking Blues 1948
- All I Got Is Gone 1949

Drop D in the key of D
- Tim Moore's Farm (with clear hints to Lonnie Johnson's playing behind Texas Alexander)

And even in Vestapol
- Jackstropper's Blues

You'll find all these on "The Gold Star Years"
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: Johnm on January 16, 2011, 12:58:29 PM
Thanks for that information, Carl.  I was hoping that someone who knew Lightnin's repertoire better than I do would be able to say one way or the other whether he had recorded in A in dropped-D tuning.  Thanks!
All best,
Johnm
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: Johnm on March 01, 2011, 05:18:04 PM
Hi all,
I just received a bunch of Roosevelt Holts recordings (thanks, Joe), and noticed that his "Prison Bound Blues" was played out of Dropped-D and is really nice.  Of course, he covered "Big Road Blues" in Dropped-D, too.
All best,
Johnm
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: Johnm on January 16, 2012, 05:15:04 PM
Hi all,
I noticed that Leroy Dallas's cut, "I'm Down Now But I Won't Be Down Always", which can be found on the JSP set, "Rub A Little Boogie--New York Blues 1945-1956", is played out of dropped-D by at least one of the accompanying guitarists.  They're shown as Dallas himself and Brownie McGhee, and there's no way of knowing for sure which of the two is playing the prominent dropped-D part; it doesn't sound like Brownie McGhee, though.
All best,
Johnm
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: uncle bud on September 04, 2012, 08:04:33 AM
There is an unidentified song in dropped D tuning by Richard Williams on Where the Palm Trees Shake at Night, a CD compilation of performances from the Florida Folk Festival put out by the Florida Folklife Collection. The song title is listed as "Unidentified". Williams starts out quite tentatively then settles into a groove.

The CD has been made available for free download by the Florida Folklife Collection at http://www.floridamemory.com/audio/cd5.php. (http://www.floridamemory.com/audio/cd5.php.) Includes music by Johnny Shines, Etta Baker, Cephas and Wiggins, Roy Book Binder, and interesting lesser known artists. I like Old Time Rounders by Emmett Murray.
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: Johnm on August 06, 2017, 09:17:04 AM
Hi all,
Okay, all of the "Adventures in . . ." threads have been moved to Country Blues Licks and Lessons now.
All best,
Johnm
Title: Re: Adventures in Dropped-D tuning
Post by: Johnm on January 28, 2018, 11:31:03 AM
Hi all,
It has been a while since this thread as seen a new post.  One later musician who really favored Dropped-D and recorded in it a good deal was J B Lenoir.  Just in the course of doing the Miller's Breakdown thread, we have done four of his songs, "Alabama March", "If I Get Lucky", "Remove This Rope" and "Mississippi Road", all of which he chose to play out of Dropped-D.  I'm sure there are a good number more.
All best,
Johnm
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