Topic: learning the fingerboard

[bloozinay]

Hi everybody, Carl here. I've got this nagging irritation about my guitar playing ability in that I don't know the fretboard well enough to, lets say, hit the G on the 5th string, and find the flatted 7th on an adjacent string without hunting for it. I play using muscle memory, knowledge of where chords are up the neck, and habit, but to know what notes I'm playing and their relationship to the key I'm in eludes me. Can anybody out here give me some pointers, excercises, or applications that I can do which won't bore me to tears and maybe has some practical application to blues playing? The answer is probably to do scales, but I'd rather pull a tooth.

[Peghead Howell]

I don't know if this is the answer or not,, go to the internet and type in "Guitar Fingerboard Chart" and you will get a printable fingerboard chart to hang on the wall,, which has been very handy for me... it seems once you get it say in A,, it transitions well or similarly to other keys... Hope this helps,, I agree,, scales are what fish have.... Mike

[Fifthtry]

This has helped for me:

To me, there's a big difference between learning scales (which I hate) and learning shapes, or "boxes."  I'm not sure whether your reference to scales included shapes/boxes.  I found it very helpful to learn some of the more important boxes.  Learn one and you've learned 12 scales by simply starting on a different note.  10 minutes a day while reciting "1, 3, b7 etc" helped me get a much better understanding of "if this note is the I, then that one two frets up is the b7", etc.

Here's one site discussing boxes/shapes. http://robinmay.co.uk/boxes.htm There are many.  Hope that helps.

John

[Pan]

0 I II III IV V VI VII VIII IX X XI XII
E F   G       A     B   C       D      E
B C   D       E  F      G       A      B
G   A      B  C     D        E  F      G
D   E F       G     A        B  C      D
A   B C       D     E   F       G      A
E F   G       A     B   C       D      E
0 I II III IV V VI VII VIII IX X XI XII

0 + the roman numeral are frets.
the thinnest  E -string is on top.
The sharpened or flattened notes are not noted, they fall between the regular notes, for ex. the IInd fret on top E-string is either F# or Gb.

The names of the notes are of course the alphabet from A to G. Spelled from A to G they form the A-natural minor sca... er, I mean a specific group of notes. Spelled from  C to B they form the C major sca... I mean another specific group of notes.

You don't need to remember the sharpened or flatted notes at first; they are just one fret higher or lower than the "regular" notes. This makes it much easier to remember things.
 
You know the names of the open strings. The XII fret is the octave; the names of the notes are the same as open strings.
The VII fret is the perfect 5th (interval) of the open string.
The IVth fret is the perfect 4th of the open string which you use to tune the guitar, except for the B-string, so the names are corresponding with the next open strings of course.
The IIIrd fret is the minor third, while the IVth is the major 3rd, and so on.
The 6th and 1st strings are both E -strings, so the names of the notes are in the same place.
Above the XII fret or the octave the neck "starts all over again" so the notes are in the same relative positions as above the open strings.

You can study things from many possile angles. For ex., "What are the notes on the Ist frets"? From bottom E-string to the top: F, A#/Bb, D#/Eb, G#/Ab, C, and F.
Or "Where can I play an E note?": open 1st and 6th strgs, IInd fret 4th strg, Vth fret 2nd strg, VIIth fret 5th strg, IXth fret 3rd strg, and XII fret 6th and 1st strgs.
Or "From how many different places can I play a specific note?" etc. You'll soon start to remember the names and places of the notes. You can study these things without the guitar, in your mind, for example when you're waiting for a transport, or pretending to be listening to your boss, and so on .

If you look at the diagram above you notice that certain notes are one fret (a semitone or half-step) apart, while others are two frets (a whole-tone, or a whole-step) apart. This is why you need to sharpen or flatten notes to keep the major/minor scale formula intact, if you want to play in other keys than C-major or A-minor. Every key has it's own set of chords which could be studied also. This however, will inevitably lead to the study of...(gulp) scales and arpeggios. If you study them you will be able to form and arpeggiate chords in any position on the neck, and understand their relation to a given "root" note.

Hope this helps

Pan

Edit: mistakes

[Pan]

If you absolutely detest the idea of playing scales, maybe you could look at things chordwise instead. Here's 5 very basic ways to play the dominant 7th chord arpeggio, they will pretty much cover the whole fretboard. This reads:
- R: root, place your finger on the desired root note of the chord on the fretboard.
- 3: the major 3rd of the chord
- 5: the perfect 5th of the chord
- 7: the minor 7th of the chord

Try playing the I, IV and V chords with these.

When you get bored you could:
- precede the major 3rd with a minor 3rd one fret below, for a more bluesy effect.
- add the major 6th one fret below the minor 7th. Try also substituting the 7th with the 6th for a less bluesy I or IV chord.
- precede the minor to major 3rd notes with a perfect 4th one fret above the major 3rd.
- add a major 2nd (or 9th) note two frets above the root.
- connect the above with chromatic passing notes.
This should keep you busy for a while. Warning: adding the 2nd, 4th and 6th notes might lead to someone accusing you of playing a Mixolydian scale .

Edit: mistakes, spelling, image size

[outfidel]

There's also the C-A-G-E-D approach for thinking about the fretboard. I put together some slides to summarize this, after reading a few things and taking a workshop. See the attached pdf.

[uncle bud]

Hi outfidel - there seems to be some errors in your triads, e.g. A Cb E for an A chord should be A C# E etc. Unless there's something about CAGED I'm not gettin'.

[bloozinay]

Thanks everyone, I'll start working on this stuff.
Carl

[outfidel]

Uncle Bud - It must be a typo -- chords in CAGED are the same as chords elsewhere. I'll re-check & re-post it when I get a chance.

[jtbrown]

Bloozinay,

Ernie Hawkins, who is an extremely enthusiastic proponent of the CAGED system and has been teaching it in workshops for quite some time now, recently made a two-DVD set of CAGED lessons for Homespun. I haven't yet had time to get very far into the lessons, but Ernie's teaching style is thorough and methodical, and this approach seems quite useful; the fact that it's chord-based may make it especially suitable for fingerpickers. If you're interested, you can read more about the lessons (or order them) on Ernie's website at www.erniehawkins.com. (The DVDs are also available from the Homespun site, of course.)

You also might want to check out the profile of Ernie in the June 2006 issue of Acoustic Guitar magazine; it includes a good general introduction to how the CAGED system works.

[rpg51]

There is a member at the APM forum that has been posting a series of lessons focused on exactly these issues.  It is very well done.  Might be worth a look see - here is the first lesson - http://www.acousticplayermagazine.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=8499&hl=- if you come forward in time at that main forum page you will see Lesson Two and Lesson Three - also more to come apparantly.