Topic: Miller's Breakdown

[Prof Scratchy]

I agree with what others have said re tunings: Drop D for Carolina Slim and G standard capoed around the fifth fret and sounding in C. Petway alludes to the V chord but doesn’t play it as such.

[blueshome]

Just got to it. I agree with the others, drop D and G capoed way up.

[Johnm]

Hi all,
The Carolina Slim and Robert Petway puzzlers have been up a while, so I'll post the answers.

For Carolina Slim's "Slo-Freight Blues":
   * His playing position was D position in dropped-D tuning as all who responded had it--well done!
   * Carolina Slim fretted his IV chords in his verse accompaniments at the fifth fret of the sixth and first strings and the third fret of the second string. This gives him a very bright, open sound, voicing a G add 9 chord with root on the sixth string, fifth on the second string and 9 on the first string. With no third or seventh in his voicing, the chord has a very ringy sound that is quite distinctive.
   * He begins his solo rocking between the eight fret of the first string and the tenth fret of the second string, moving that position down three frets intact, and then back and forth. This is just as Dave had it in his response.

The song sounds like it is going to be a cover of Walter Davis' "I Can't See Your Face" as it opens, but after the first verse goes elsewhere. Musically, it comes right out of Lightnin' Hopkins' way of playing in dropped-D. Carolina Slim was one of the East Coast players to record in the post-War period to have a very strong Lightnin' Hopkins influence, like Pernell Charity and John Dee Holman.

For Robert Petway's "In The Evening":
   * His playing position was G position in standard tuning, as all who responded had it. Well done again!
   * Petway did avoid the V chord, as everyone also noted.

Robert Petway's playing in G provokes a somewhat complicated response for me (and perhaps, only me). He played there with great skill, and so strongly, and sang well, too. At the same time, I find his music a bit monotonous. I wonder if he had had the opportunity to record more, or over a more extended period of time whether he would have expanded his range of expression and sounds. We'll certainly never know at this point.

Thanks to all who posted responses to the puzzlers and I hope that you enjoyed the songs.

All best,
Johnm

[IanD]

Thanks, John. I will try the Carolina Slim stuff out as soon as I can. I haven't listened to Petway much, but for me the appeal is mostly in his voice, which is pretty great.

[Johnm]

I think you'll have fun with the Carolina Slim piece, Ian. All of those bass runs he's playing sit so naturally in the fretting hand.

[Johnm]

Hi all,
I've got a couple  of puzzlers for those of you who are interested. The first is from Pete Franklin, and it is his "Sail On", from his '60s Prestige Bluesville album "Guitar Pete's Blues". Here it is:



INTRO

You can mistreat me here, but you can't when I go home
Baby, you can mistreat me here, but you can't when I go home
Well, I got somebody there, baby, that will make you leave me 'lone

Well, remember, baby, just before you sail away
Now remember, baby, just before you sail away
When you get back, woman, you won't have no place to stay

Right now, baby, I'm sleepin' all by myself, I can't get you, woman, I don't, want nobody else
Right now, baby, baby, I'm sleepin' by myself
Lord, I can't get you, well, I don't want nobody else

SOLO

Well, remember, baby, just before you sail away
Now remember, baby, just before you sail away
When you get back, you won't have no place to stay

CODA

The questions on Pete Franklin's "Sail On" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did he use to play the song?
   * Where did he fret what he played at the beginning of his second verse accompaniment, and where did he fret the high note that jumps in intermittently in the fill that follows it?

The second puzzler is Shirley Griffith's "Take Me Back To Mama". Here it is:
   


INTRO SOLO

Take me back to Mama, set me in the corner
I'm too young to marry, I'm to young to marry
Never expects to marry, long as I can make a dollar
Take me back to Mama, set me in the corner

SOLO

Take me back to Mama, set me in the corner
I'm too young to marry, I'm to young to marry
Never expects to marry, long as I can make a dollar
Take me back to Mama, set me in the corner

SOLO

CODA

The questions on Shirley Griffith's "Take Me Back To Mama" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did he use to play the song?
   * What chord normally played in a blues did he omit?
   
Please use only your ears and your guitar to arrive at your answers, and please don't post any answers before 8:00 AM you time on Thursday, February 23. Thanks for your participation and I hope that you enjoy the songs.

All best,
Johnm

[Johnm]

Hi all,
Any takers for the Pete Franklin and Shirley Griffith puzzlers? Come one, come all!
All best,
Johnm

[Johnm]

Hi all,
Any takers on the Pete Franklin and Shirley Griffith puzzlers?

[banjochris]

Since no one has commented, John, I'll bite on some of them –

"Sail On" sounds like its in A position to me – I didn't check the high note part.

"Take Me Back to Mama" is in C position with no IV chord. It's more like a play-party or dance piece than a blues – reminds me some of Fiddlin' John Carson's "Engineer on the Mogull."

[Prof Scratchy]

I agree with banjochris for the two identifications, and the missing IV chord in the Shirley Griffith’s one. At the start of Pete Franklin’s second verse he’s playing out of a brushed position on 3rd fret first string and fifth fret second string, interjecting a high note at the fifth fret of the first string (I think)!

[Johnm]

Any other takers for the Pete Franklin and Shirley Griffith puzzlers?

[joe paul]

Finally took the time to listen to these and yes, I agree with Banjochris and Prof Scratchy.
A position tuned down a fret or so for Pete Franklin with that fifth fret on the first string just jumping in and out when he's playing the top two strings at the third and fifth.
C tuned up a semitone with Shirley Griffith and no F, no IV chord. They're both cool tunes, especially the way 'Take Me Back To Mama' fits together, great singing.

[Johnm]

Hi all,
The Pete Franklin and Shirley Griffith puzzlers have been up for a while, so I'll post the answers.

For Pete Franklin's "Sail On":
   * His playing position was A position in standard tuning, as everyone who responded had it--well done!
   * At the beginning of the second verse, he is sliding into the fifth fret of the fourth and second strings. This is an interesting and unusual wrinkle for a blues played in A position, standard tuning. I think we're much more accustomed to hearing a slide into the third fret of the first string and the fifth fret of the second string, a la Lightnin' Hopkins and many other players of A blues. By keeping the fifth fret of the second string but substituting the fifth fret of the fourth string for the third fret of the first string, Pete Franklin took the more commonly played third fret of the first string and dropped it down an octave, while at the same time setting up a situation in which he could get a thumb brushed unison between the fifth fret of the fourth string he was sliding into and the open third string, as well as a finger brushed unison between the fifth fret of the second string and the open first string. The sound of those two slid notes moving into unisons with the next higher strings seems kind of magical to me. The higher note that pops out of the lick that follows that opening vocal line is the fifth fret of the first string as Prof Scratchy and joe paul had it. He may sneak in a couple of third frets of the first string there, too.

For Shirley Griffith's "Take Me Back To Mama":
   * His playing position was C position in standard tuning, as all who responded had it--well done!
   * The chord normally played in a blues that Shirley Griffith omitted in the song is the IV chord, and everyone got that, too.
As banjochris noted, the song isn't really a blues anyway, being more like a play party song, a dance tune or a children's song, I would think.

Thanks to banjochris, Professor Scratchy and joe paul for responding, and I hope that people enjoyed the songs.

All best,
Johnm

[Johnm]

Hi all,
I"d like to propose a format change for this thread going forward. The thread has been going since 2014, and at this point there have been 382 different blues songs featured in the puzzlers. That's a lot of puzzlers, especially when many of the songs had two or three questions with regard to how they were played.

What I'd like to propose is that anyone can post a puzzler song, especially a song that he/she is trying to figure out and is stymied, either by determining the playing position/tuning or some lick in the course of the song. Once the song, with a youtube video embedded, is posted and the questions are asked, people can respond with their answers, and I will butt out, unless no mutually agreed upon answer can be achieved. I would only post where no consensus as to the answers to any questions posed is reached. I like the idea of the puzzlers being driven by people's desire to figure out how to play particular songs, and I like the idea of the group, minus me, trying to determine the answers to the questions.

Any thoughts on this proposed change of format?

[banjochris]

I think that's a great idea, John – but if you find a really good one, please keep posting!
Chris