Topic: Pre-war Harmonica Blues

[waxwing]

Thought this deserved a new thread, JohnM. Boy, it'd be great if we enticed some of the fine PT blues harpists to join in the fray here, eh?
I guess jug bands are what spring to mind when I think of pre-war harp. Perhaps the many St. Louis and Memphis bands would fall into a slightly more urban blues? (see thread discussing country v. urban)<G>. Really tho', when I think of Noah Lewis (see my avatar) he is country all the way. If you go to the Document site you can do a search by instrument (what I mean about their great contibution as a resource) and there were 124 CDs on the list. Not all strictly pre-war, but several jug bands were represented as well as many 'solo' artist that must have had some blues harp accompaniment. Fuller, of course, but also Barbecue Bob, Broonzy, Big Joe Williams, Blind Joe Taggart, Leecan and Cooksey, Lonnie Johnson, Sleepy John. These were all from the late '20s and early '30s. And there were many, many compilations I didn't investigate. Certainly you are right that most would think of Sonny Terry as the foremost example, but I think there was quite a bit of recorded harp accompanyment, just not so many stars, or long lasting partnerships, perhaps.
You know, this also brings to mind the whole discussion/thread about country blues jams. While most (but not all) of us guitarists are learning arrangements from old 78s the harpists at PT seem to be more concerned with the jam, i.e. learning to work in different harp positions and around different holes. When I was working with my friend, Duncan, it was relatively painless for him to work into the arrangements I was playing. He would fill while I sang or took my breaks and I would just repeat the vocal backing for him to break over.
Anyway, lots to think about in this direction, and I repeat, it would be great to get some pre-war oriented harpists to add to the mix here. Any ideas?
All for now.
John C

[Mike Billo]

Hi John; A lot of the Pre-War Harp Players, played in both first (playing in the key the harmonica is labeled as) and second position (The Blues Cross Harp style most of us are familiar with hearing today).
Will Shade of the Memphis Jug Band, Robert Cooksey of Leecan and Cooksey, Noah lewis, Jaybird Coleman and Palmer MacAbee (to name just a few) played extensively in first position (as well as second), which gives the Pre-War Harmonica stylists a somewhat more versatile playing style than most of todays Blues Harp Players, in my opinion.
In listening to the Pre-War guys who played in first position, the lines between African-American Blues and White Hillbilly music can become somewhat blurred.
The only Pre-War Harp players who played exclusively in second position (cross harp) that come to mind are Deford Bailey (an astonishing virtuoso), Sonny Terry and the first Sonny Boy Williamson (who played with Big Joe Williams and Yank Rachell). I'm sure that, given enough time, I could think of others, but the ability to play in different positions definitely used to be more prevalent than it is today.

-Mike Billo

[waxwing]

That could explain why Duncan seemed to be able to fit in so well with my repertoir. He told me he had learned harp from a fisherman in St. Johns, Newfoundland, and had played 1st position exclusively from about the age of 7 until he first learned a blues song at about 20. He then spent his 20s in local blues bands playing mostly cross harp. He did a little third position, too, on St. James Infirmary Blues. I miss him. He really enjoyed playing in a country style, but I heard him cut loose with a bullet on a couple Third Thursdays with the electric crowd, too.
All for now.
John C.

[a2tom]

very interesting info, Mike.  I am wondering if anyone could post some MP3 clips of blues playing in first vs. second position so  we could hear the difference.  Do they give a different feel to the music?

tom

[Slack]

very interesting info, Mike.  I am wondering if anyone could post some MP3 clips of blues playing in first vs. second position so  we could hear the difference.  Do they give a different feel to the music?

tom

Hi Tom,  I think it is pretty easy to tell the diference between 1st and 2nd positions.  A 1st postion song would be "Oh Susana" a 2nd position song would be "Love in Vain".   In 1st position, for the majority of time or most of the melody, you blow.  In 2nd postion you draw.  It is much easier to "bend notes" and get half tones (like flatted 3rds and 7ths) when you draw.

Cheers,
slack

[boots]

very interesting info, Mike.  I am wondering if anyone could post some MP3 clips of blues playing in first vs. second position so  we could hear the difference.  Do they give a different feel to the music?

tom

Hi Tom,  I think it is pretty easy to tell the diference between 1st and 2nd positions.  A 1st postion song would be "Oh Susana" a 2nd position song would be "Love in Vain".   In 1st position, for the majority of time or most of the melody, you blow.  In 2nd postion you draw.  It is much easier to "bend notes" and get half tones (like flatted 3rds and 7ths) when you draw.

Cheers,
slack

Hi! Slack,
In England we suck, but I guess that's not good for you. 

Boots

[Slack]

In England we suck, but I guess that's not good for you.  Grin

Boots, I'm the host and must remain polite.   

[waxwing]

There are also blow bends, which can make first position sound just as bluesy as second position, but the blow bends are in the upper register of the harp, whereas the draw bends are in the lower register. Rather than try to create a blues harp lesson here, Tom, especially since I don't play (yet), I would recommend that you Google < blues harp lessons > and, as I just did, you will find that there is a wealth of info available with audio samples galore. You can also, of course, "go to the Juke" and listen to the great Noah Lewis. There is one listing of Noah Lewis' Jug Band playing Ticket Man Blues and a great selection under Cannon's Jug Stompers. Noah, as Mike pointed out, was comfortable in both positions, and after a while you will be able to hear the distinction.
All for now.
John C.

[Johnm]

Hi all,
I've been listening to a lot of Carolina Tarheels and Ashley & Foster material that Suzy Thompson sent me in preparation for Port Townsend this year (thanks Suzy!) and have had ample opportunity to be reminded what an amazing harmonica player Gwen Foster was.  His numbers "Black Pine Waltz" and the unaccompanied "Wilkes County Blues" must be placed at the same level as the greatest hits of DeFord Bailey, Noah Lewis, "Bullet" Williams, Jaybird Coleman and Ollis Martin.  What is really unusual about Gwen Foster is that he evidently most often played off a rack--he was a really nifty guitar player, too.
I remember the first year that Joe Filisko taught at Port Townsend he blew my mind by playing "Black Pine Waltz".  I can't recall ever being more surprised to hear an accurate recreation of a great historical performance.  Joe said the amount of time it took him to figure out what Gwen Foster was doing was "sick".  I'm certainly glad he hung in there, though!  If you haven't hear Gwen or Joe, and you enjoy great harmonica playing, you may want to check them out.
All best,
Johnm

[Cambio]

You're abasolutely right about that John!  Gwen Foster is one of the best.  He definately doesn't get the credit that he deserves.  Partly because I don't think most people realize that he is playing the harmonica on a rack!
Last summer at Clifftop, Nate Layne (who is a fantastic player in his own right) was telling Frank and I that he tracked down Gwen Foster's grave and placed a tape of some of Gwen's stuff there, along with a note saying that he was a big fan.  A few months later he got a letter from Gwen's nephew who invited him down for a visit.  Nate went down and got to see where Gwen was born and where he died.  The nephew also took him to the Ralles (?) Chain, which was an old department store that shows up in the lyrics of Bay Rum Blues.  Gwen's nephew told Nate that some of the drinkers in town, which apparently included Gwen, would show up there on Saturday mornings to tie one on and trade pocket knives.  Apparently, they'd get so lit up that they'd go home with the same pocket knive that they came with.
I believe that Nate was in the process of writing an article about Gwen.  It would be great if there was a compilation of his stuff.

[Prof Scratchy]

A lot of great hamonica players have been mentioned already - but my all time pre-war favouite harmonica track has to be Alfred Lewis's 1930 piece "Mississippi Swamp Moan". Haunting, moody, swooping and, well, swampy!
Prof S

[uncle bud]

I've been listening to the Memphis Jug Band a fair amount lately and really love Will Shade's playing. It's very melodic, and I really like the way the harmonica and kazoo play together and off each other.

[Johnm]

Hi all,
Neat to see the posts.  Glad to hear you are a fan of Gwen's too, Todd, and thanks in particular for that tip on the lyrics to "Bay Rum Blues".  I wouldn't have gotten that Ralles Chain in a million years, I thought he was saying the "rail exchange", which didn't make a hell of a lot of sense!  Boy, those local references in lyrics can really hang you up sometimes.  I'll never forget Rivers, from New Zealand, figuring out that Furry Lewis was saying in a lyric that his woman "won't do nothing but walk that Horn Lake Road".  It's a verse in "Dry Land Blues", and Mark got the name from a Map Quest search or some such thing of Memphis and environs.  And once he suggested it, it was perfectly clear that that's what Furry was saying.  Amazing!  I will look forward to the article by your friend.
You're right, Scratchy, Alfred Lewis was sensational, and Will Shade was great, as you say, Andrew, and a hell of a guitarist.
All best,
Johnm

[phhawk]

Howdy, It's good to hear appreciations of Gwen Foster. The Tarhells have always knocked me out. Also, I've always thought Will Shade was over shadowed among collectors by Noah Lewis, Jaybird Coleman, etc., but I've always thought he was a great player.

A couple of others that certainly deserve mention; For great all out exciting harmonica, it's hard to beat Jed Davenport's "Beale Street Breakdown and another favorite of mine is Chuck Darling's "Blowin' The Blues/Harmonica Rag". I'm embarrassed to say, I've never heard the Alfred Lewis sides.

Phil

[Mike Billo]

I was never aware that Gwen Foster played using a rack. When using the rack you ususallly have to sacrifice a lot of your note bending and tremolo effects. There's *nothing* lacking from Foster's playing. That's truly amazing to me.

   To my tastes, the all time best Pre-War Harmonica Blues playing is Robert Cooksey of Leecan and Cooksey. Staright Harp, Cross Harp, third position, improvising endlessly without ever repeating an idea. Wow!
  I don't know if the two volumes of Leecan and Cooksey n Document are still in print but if they are, everyone should own them. After all these years, they're still two of my most played CD's.