Topic: Johnson & Shines photo "authenticated!"

[jpeters609]

There was an Ike Zinneman story in a recent Living Blues, including photos and a fairly thorough biography. The writer tracked down Ike's surviving family (he died in the 60's, I think). Sorry -- don't have the magazine with me at the moment. I'm sure someone else can offer more details...

[CF]

Here's a scan of the Ike Z photo from the Columbia Complete Johnson booklet. Sorry about the quality.

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[Mr.OMuck]

so fashion analysis should be able to provide a window of a few years in which the photo may have been taken.  [/quote]

I'm fairly sure that a good fashion historian (like at the Met's fashion dept.) would be able to pinpoint the year the suit was made, and maybe even who made it and where it was sold. The BB resemblance is strong as well as the persistent feeling that I've seen the guy on the right before. But where....where.
I was almost signed onto the Johnny Shines ID because of certain similarities in the structure of the mouth but the bridge of the nose is too wide, along with all the other differences.

Therefore I have concluded that the picture is actually  of Adlai Stevenson and Eleanor Roosevelt.

[outfidel]

This is probably a long shot, but I'll ask anyway: did Ike Z ever record anything?

[jpeters609]

Apparently not, unfortunately. Check out the back issue of Living Blues from February, 2008 (Issue 194). It's available through their website (www.livingblues.com).

[Stuart]

After a further reevaluation of the the evidence, both photographic and phonographic, I am now convinced that it is a photo of Robert Johnson standing next to Robert Johnson.

[Bald Melon Jefferson]

I have yeti's body on ice! act now...goes to e-bay tomorrow.



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[a2tom]

I've been out of touch - whatever happened to the unquestionably authentic RJ guitar going for $6 million a while back?

tom

[doctorpep]

I'd just like to say that in Bob Dylan's autobiography, he talks about hearing Robert Johnson for the first time and thinking it was the most brilliant thing in the history of the world, while at Dave Van Ronk's apartment. When Dylan asked Van Ronk if Johnson was the greatest thing since sliced bread, Van Ronk just simply said something akin to, "He's very, very good. Maybe great. But there are much better players. I don't see the magic that you see in it, Bobby." Maybe somebody with the autobiography can give us the exact quote. If Clapton was repelled by Robert Johnson, he might die if he hears King Solomon Hill or Boweevil Jackson, not to mention some of the amazing African-American field recordings done by Lomax, of geniuses like Bama.

[outfidel]

doctorpep - Check out this very interesting article by Elijah Wald:

Bob Dylan, Dave Van Ronk, and Robert Johnson

[Mr.OMuck]

Interesting article by Elijah Wald. All artists are somewhat guilty of forming their tastes around their own capacities and inclinations, and even their sense of how  their choices affects whatever persona they're choosing to project at the moment. In my opinion its a tendency that should be resisted. In order to really get the full meaning of a piece of music or a painting, or a work of literature, it is beneficial to suspend, to whatever degree its possible to do so, ones own criteria concerning the relevance or usefulness of the piece. Ideas of usefulness and cultural relevance are often assigned to artists as a result of the influence they exert on succeeding generations. This however is no
guarantee of any great intrinsic value in the work itself. There are certainly many examples of great artists whose work produced few if any followers. Bob had it right and Dave missed an opportunity to challenge and deepen his conception of the music he loved. But he missed very few of those and was a pretty good example of the kind of attitude I'm endorsing.

[dj]

If Clapton was repelled by Robert Johnson, he might die if he hears King Solomon Hill...

Let's be fair, doctorpep.  The key word in that sentence is "was".  Forty some odd years ago, Eric Clapton first heard a blues record recorded in the 1930s.  He'd never heard anything like it before, and like most of us, he was initially a bit conflicted - attracted, but at the same time not yet able to completely enjoy it because it was such a radically new experience.  But, like the rest of us, he was soon drawn in completely.  I'd been primed by listening to mid-sixties rock, then white blues bands, then the major Chess artists, B.B. King, and Memphis Slim, but I remember almost exactly the same reaction on first hearing Blind Boy Fuller and a Mississippi Blues compilation when I was 15.  And, for that matter, when first hearing Ornette Coleman and Medieval music played on an Irish harp at about the same time.  Heck, I felt the same way about my first cigarette and first bottle of beer.

I'm sure he's long since heard King Solomon Hill and Boll Weevil Jackson, and, at least up through the press date of this morning's newspaper, he's still alive.        

[doctorpep]

Dj, you're probably right. That quote from Clapton is probably many decades old. I just wonder why Clapton and Keith haven't raved about others in the manner they've raved about Mr. Johnson. Or have they, and it's just the media that chooses to quote them about Johnson?

[outfidel]

B.B. King (1942 & 1946) in the b&w photos; mystery man in an enhanced shot of the Vanity Fair picture.



Personally, I don't think the guy in the Vanity Fair picture is Robert Johnson or B.B. King.

[Chezztone]

I guess my general reaction is 1) it might be Johnson; 2) who cares?
But another angle that springs to mind is that we live in an era of Photoshop and other kinds of readily available sophisticated image manipulation. Maybe the picture is a fake or pastiche of some kind.