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The blues is not a plaything like some people think they are. Like youngsters today, right now they take anything and make the blues out of it. Just any little ol junk something or other and say this is the such and such a blues. NO IT'S NOT. Ain't but ONE kind of blues, and that consists between male and female what's in love. In love. Male and Female - Son House

Author Topic: Adventures in F position  (Read 28107 times)

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Offline uncle bud

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Re: Blues in F
« Reply #75 on: November 13, 2009, 11:36:49 AM »
Thanks, Chris and Stuart, for the additional information on Lake Howard.  It appears from looking at the track list on the album that I have two titles that did not appear there--"I've Lost My Love", which is the "Careless Love" version, and "Get Your Head In Here", a nutty chorus blues much in the mold of the Cedar Creek Sheik.

(No help for Pan here, who has revived this thread. Haven't listened yet, Pan.)

Re. Lake Howard, I'd add that another track, the Cauley Family doing "New River Train", appears on the In the Pines compilation from Old Hat. The notes mention that a 1934 old-time contest in Kinston, North Carolina, offered the top prize of a trip to New York and a session with ARC. Winners were Lenoir County fiddler Roland Cauley, two eldest kids Arthur and Ruth, and Lake Howard.

As discussed elsewhere, Old Hat recently released "Gastonia Gallop", which is due to be followed by "Crazy Barn Dance: String Bands & Brother Teams on North Carolina Radio", and then "Lumberton Wreck", an album of artists under the management of J.B. Long, including Lake Howard, Reverend Gary Davis, Blind Boy Fuller, and Sonny Terry.

JohnM, I looked in the Tony Russell book Country Music Originals and can't find anything about Lake Howard. Unfortunately, there is no index (my one complaint about this otherwise excellent book), only a table of contents. No entry for the Cauley Family. The book is not comprehensive, as Russell himself admits. Did Lake Howard play with any other musicians or group than the Cauley Family. Perhaps some information is buried in another entry.

Offline Johnm

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Re: Blues in F
« Reply #76 on: November 13, 2009, 12:24:27 PM »

Hi all,

Uncle bud, I don't know what percentage I have of Lake Howard's recordings, but on the twenty tracks I do have, in addition to the eight with the Cauley Family, he did two numbers with Bill Wakefield, as well as 10 solo numbers.  Lightnin' Wells probably knows how much Lake Howard recorded and if he recorded with any other musicians.

Pan, I don't have "South Carolina Rag" with me at this time, but I am certain that Willie Walker's part of the duet was played out of C position in standard tuning.  I don't have the sound of Sam Brooks' accompaniment in my head well enough to recall whether he played it out of F or not, but I expect there are other folks here who can check on that.
all best,
Johnm   

Offline uncle bud

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Re: Blues in F
« Reply #77 on: November 13, 2009, 12:30:07 PM »
Nothing on Wakefield either unfortunately. We'll perhaps have to wait till that Old Hat release.

Offline Pan

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Re: Blues in F
« Reply #78 on: November 13, 2009, 12:40:40 PM »
Pan, I don't have "South Carolina Rag" with me at this time, but I am certain that Willie Walker's part of the duet was played out of C position in standard tuning.  I don't have the sound of Sam Brooks' accompaniment in my head well enough to recall whether he played it out of F or not, but I expect there are other folks here who can check on that.

Thanks Johnm (and Uncle Bud).

It was hard for me to hear, since Walker plays mostly single string lines, but C position makes sense, and is common in these types of rags. I'll try to capo at 5th fret and see what it does.

The song itself is pitched somewhere between E and F, and I'm still thinking that Brooks plays from F rather than E, but I could be wrong.

Back to the shed.

Pan

Offline Pan

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Re: Blues in F
« Reply #79 on: November 13, 2009, 03:35:21 PM »
Pan, I don't have "South Carolina Rag" with me at this time, but I am certain that Willie Walker's part of the duet was played out of C position in standard tuning.  I don't have the sound of Sam Brooks' accompaniment in my head well enough to recall whether he played it out of F or not, but I expect there are other folks here who can check on that.

Thanks Johnm (and Uncle Bud).

It was hard for me to hear, since Walker plays mostly single string lines, but C position makes sense, and is common in these types of rags. I'll try to capo at 5th fret and see what it does.

The song itself is pitched somewhere between E and F, and I'm still thinking that Brooks plays from F rather than E, but I could be wrong.

Back to the shed.

Pan

Johnm was right, of course. Putting the capo on the 5th fret unlocked some tricky fingerings and everything became much more natural.

I think Brooks at times goes to the open low E on the V chord (C7) which would put him in F position in standard tuning, if I'm not mistaken. His accompaniment is really excellent and he plays some really nice basslines too! Great music!   :) I wish I get to play country blues duets some sweet day!

Thanks again John!

Now I'm off to see what happens in take two. It seems to have a more clear sound. Maybe they improved on the mic placement?

Cheers

Pan

Offline Johnm

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Re: Blues in F
« Reply #80 on: November 13, 2009, 03:45:45 PM »
Good for you, Pan, for paying enough attention to Sam Brooks to figure out what he was doing!  Willie Walker's playing on the tune is so dazzling that it's been hard for me in the past to focus attention on all aspects of the rendition.  Here's a case of a blues in F that sort of snuck in the back door!
All best,
Johnm

Offline Johnm

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Re: Blues in F
« Reply #81 on: September 22, 2010, 02:57:26 PM »
Hi all,
I was listening to the great old County Records re-issue, "Riley Puckett--Waitin' For the Evening Mail", and noticed that in addition to "I'm Ragged But I'm Right" and "Poor Boy", which have already been identified in this thread as having been played out of the F position, Riley also did "Riley's Hen House Door", "When I'm Gone You'll Soon Forget Me', and "Boots & Saddle" out of F position, as well.  None of them are blues, but we've included other songster material here, so . . . .
All best,
Johnm

Offline Gerry Clarke

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Re: Blues in F
« Reply #82 on: September 23, 2010, 09:21:38 AM »
I believe "Southbound Rag", the trio side with Blake, Jimmy Bertrand and Johnny Dodds, is in F.  I used to think it was E, but F makes more sense given the presence of the clarinet.  I love Blake's playing on this. 

Gerry

Offline banjochris

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Re: Blues in F
« Reply #83 on: September 23, 2010, 04:12:13 PM »
I believe "Southbound Rag", the trio side with Blake, Jimmy Bertrand and Johnny Dodds, is in F.  I used to think it was E, but F makes more sense given the presence of the clarinet.  I love Blake's playing on this. 

Gerry

If this is the tune I'm thinking of, I'm pretty sure Blake tunes low and plays out of G position on this one, similar to his work on "Hastings St."
Chris

Offline Gerry Clarke

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Re: Blues in F
« Reply #84 on: September 24, 2010, 02:47:39 PM »
Chris, that is certainly possible and it never struck me.  It might account for the oddly ringing sound he gets from the I chord at the end of one of the tune sections. 

Gerry

Offline Rivers

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Re: Blues in F
« Reply #85 on: October 10, 2010, 04:16:44 PM »
Hi all,
I just remembered a couple of more:  "The Gin Done Done It" and "Do It Right" by Pigmeat Pete and Catjuice Charlie.
All best,
Johnm

I just noticed while playing along with it Pigmeat Pete and Catjuice Charlie's On Our Turpentine Farm is also out of F position.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2010, 04:17:49 PM by Rivers »

Offline Johnm

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Re: Blues in F
« Reply #86 on: March 01, 2011, 05:11:22 PM »
Hi all,
I just received the Document CD of "The Two Poor Boys", Joe Evans & Arthur McClain, DOCD-5044, and in listening through the program have found that this very versatile duo recorded in F a fair amount.  The following songs all have the guitarist playing out of F position in standard tuning, and are all over the map, stylistically:
   * "Little Son Of A Gun"--played on a 12-string, terrific raggy playing and fast;
   * "New Huntsville Jail, takes 1 and 3"--A waltz with a faux weepy recitation done to the tune of "Down In The Valley".  Really pretty despite the histrionics;
   * "Sitting On Top Of The World"--a la the Mississippi Sheiks, after the Sheiks had their big hit with it.
   * "So Sorry Dear"--a Poppy song, up tempo, sung in close harmony, very much of the Jazz Age.  I think this might be Walter Donaldson's "What Can I Say Dear, After I've Said That I'm Sorry", with a different title.

The Two Poor Boys must be one of the most versatile duos in this style ever to record.  Between them, you hear excellent singing, together and separately, plus expert playing of guitars, mandolin, violin and piano (and kazoo).  They sound thoroughly professional, the kind of group that might have been able to go into the studio three or four days consecutively and never repeat a song.  Boy, were they good!
All best,
Johnm
« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 05:52:25 PM by Johnm »

Offline nobocaster

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Re: Adventures in F position
« Reply #87 on: March 01, 2011, 05:39:34 PM »
The Two Poor Boys are great!  I came across that document LP a few years ago, not knowing what I was getting into.  Versatile indeed.

  I'm not sure if it was mentioned already, but I believe "Reno Blues" by the Three Tobacco Tags is in F.  Also "Get Yer Head In Here" and maybe a couple more by them. 

  ~Devin

Offline Johnm

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Re: Adventures in F position
« Reply #88 on: February 14, 2012, 11:38:17 AM »
Hi all,
I noticed recently another piece like "South Carolina Rag", in which the lead guitar is not played out of F position, but the backing guitar is.  The song is Blind Boy Fuller's "Baby, You Gotta Change Your Mind", and on it Fuller is playing out of C position, capoed to the fifth fret, while Gary Davis backs him, working out of F position in standard tuning, uncapoed, and Bull City Red handles the washboard.  Fuller's accompaniment is relatively straight-forward, though with the very lively rhythmic feel his playing always had, but Rev. Davis is absolutely smoking, and gets wilder and more exciting the longer the rendition goes along.  This one is definitely worth seeking out for Rev. Davis's playing, if you've not heard it previously.
All best,
Johnm

Offline uncle bud

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Re: Adventures in F position
« Reply #89 on: March 15, 2012, 07:43:28 AM »
As noted in the Jed Davenport Jug Band personnel thread, I believe that the accompaniment on Piccolo Blues is played out of F position on a 12-string guitar.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 07:58:23 AM by uncle bud »

 


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