Topic: Church Bells

[onewent]

...Frank, I'm only now finding this part of the forum and wanted to give you a thumbs up on Church Bells ... I think I met you once or twice at Ari's place; I was taking lessons for a few years...your version sounds as if you learned the skeleton arrangement from Ari, which I also learned and play, but you've changed it around a little into a unique arrangement ... I think Ari's
playing Church Bells on his new CD, so it will be interesting to have another version out there...

Question: What's the Coatesville waxwing referenced earlier in this thread? ...Coatesville, PA?

Regards ... Tom W.

[frankie]

...Frank, I'm only now finding this part of the forum and wanted to give you a thumbs up on Church Bells ... I think I met you once or twice at Ari's place; I was taking lessons for a few years...your version sounds as if you learned the skeleton arrangement from Ari, which I also learned and play, but you've changed it around a little into a unique arrangement ... I think Ari's playing Church Bells on his new CD, so it will be interesting to have another version out there...

Hi Tom - I think I remember you...? did you have a J-45 at one point, maybe one with an adjustable wooden saddle?? That musta been almost 10 years ago!

I'm glad you liked the tune.? Ari definitely turned me on to the song - the first time I ever heard it, he played it for me over the phone.? I don't think I ever got him to show me exactly how he plays it, though.? Just after I heard Ari play it, I was in Portland, Maine and found a copy of Kid Prince Moore and Shorty Bob Parker on Wolf - an LP, no less.? I worked out the tune from there, but I suppose that I've always had Ari's in the back of my mind.? There's at least one very "Ari" move that I, ahem, borrowed...? but it comes from If You See My Savior.? In the last verse, instead of playing a lick that moves from C or C7 to F, I play it as Gm7, C9, F.? Ari does the same move in one of the last verses If You See My Savior.? I'm not convinced it sounds quite right in Church Bells, but that hasn't stopped me from playing it yet, 'cause I like the way it sounds.? Even if I do tend to sing flat over those changes.

Question: What's the Coatesville waxwing referenced earlier in this thread? ...Coatesville, PA?

Yup, that's Coatesville, PA.? The Coatesville Cultural Society has a small old-time music festival there every year in May and they asked me to play a short set.? It was fun, but I'm not really much of a performer - I'd rather be out in the parking lot, jamming!? Come to think of it, I can't remember at all if I played this tune or not...? duh!

[onewent]

...I always brought my black early 30's L-00 to Ari's and I'm 6'5 and came in from Lancaster...Ari couldn't believe anyone would drive that far for guitar lessons...heck, I'd still do it if he were teaching...the lick from If You See My Savior, yeah, I recognized that one at the end, I play both songs, ... post a message or drop me an email if you hear of any country blues being played around, I'd be interested ... maybe one of these day, if I get the tech part together, I'll try to post my version of Church Bells... regards Tom W.  onewentatptddotnet (use the @ and . to replace the words)

[Blues4u2go]

Frank,
I've lurked about the Main Weenie Forum for quite some time,? and I have only just now discovered the Back Porch. . . and . . . Church Bells is the very first song that I have listened to here.? Very, very nicely done.? What a beautiful song.? ?I'm very impressed.? Would you care to share any insites as to the how to's, chord changes, etc?? I have to try to figure this one out now.? ?I had also never even heard of Kid Prince Moore before.? ?If you don't learn something new every day you're not breathing.? After hearing it I did a quick look on Amazon and see that Document released a complete recordings of cd in 1994.? I may have to check that out.

I look forward to listening to everything else on the Back Porch, but I imagine they will be hard pressed to match your take on this song.? If I can get it together this looks to be the perfect place for me to post an initial recording.? I am very much a newcomer to recording.? I recently purchased an Iriver and purchased a couple of small mics a week or so back.? My very first attempt at recording, the instrumental part of Paul Rishell's 'Louise' was fairly disastrous.? Many, many, many, takes trying to get through the song without a noticeable mistake.? Man is it tough.? And that was without any vocals!? Singing and playing has a lot of the same qualities for me as going down a dark black alley at 3am.? ?

Anyway, I found your home page as well, doing a Google for 'Church Bells Kid Prince Moore' and I look forward to listening to your other recordings.

Enjoy,
Mike Moran

[Prof Scratchy]

Thanks, Mike, for reviving this thread. It prompted me to have another listen and, yes, what a great song and a fine  performance. Which makes me think: Frankie, you haven't posted in a while. What  have you got up your sleeve?
Prof S

[frankie]

Hi Mike,

Church Bells is played out of C in std tuning and I'm probably close to concert pitch.  As a player, I'm basically a meat & potatoes kind of guy - the stuff that gets me going is the interplay between the voice and accompaniment, not necessarily fancy guitar stuff in isolation.  The chord shapes are all, for the most part, your typical first position chords with the following exceptions:

G7
e-1-
B-3-
G-0-
D-3-
A-2-
E-3-

The bottom G note is played with the thumb.  It's a chord shape used frequently by Rev. Gary Davis.  It's one of the things I eventually ended up using in the song - even though I haven't heard the original in a while, I'm nearly certain that this chord isn't used by Kid Prince Moore.

Underneath the "Lord I kno-ow my time ain't long", there's a D note (2nd string, 3rd fret) that figures prominently, first bent and released underneath "kn-ow", then as part of G chord at the third fret underneath the word "time":

G
e-x-
B-3-
G-4-
D-5-
A-x-
E-3-

Then as part of an F6 underneath the word "ain't":

F6
e-x-
B-3-
G-2-
D-3-
A-x-
E-1-

These features are part of KPM's performance (iirc), as are the bass runs that I typically use on the IV (F) chord.  Usually, they start on the 1st fret of the sixth string, then fifth string open, fifth string-3rd fret, fourth string open, fourth string-3rd fret, third string open, third string-1st fret, third string-2nd fret, second string-1st fret:

F-A-C-D-F-G-Aflat-A-C

All executed with the thumb except the final C on the second string.  You could probably think of it as an F6 arpeggio masquerading as a bass run.  This is just a typical run - I'll do others depending on my mood and how well I remember what it is I think I'm doing.  My timing is less fluid than KPM's, who is all kind of loose, going from memory.  Some people see this in different ways - I suppose some might be inclined to say that KPM couldn't count or something - I see my need for structure as a side effect of years of exposure to product disguised as music and which demands structural predicability.  In other words, something to be overcome...

There's no one way to play this and this isn't really an arrangement - it's how the song turned out on this particular day when my daughter was sitting across from me after work.  I'm glad you like the song.  I've played it for a long time and it's worn in like a good pair of boots, unlike all the other things I've posted.  As such, it probably doesn't belong here as it kinda violates the spirit of the Back Porch endeavor, imo.

Anyway, I hope this helps - there's a bunch of good stuff done by others tucked away in the Back Porch, so going through the contributions will be fun, imho.

Re:  singing and playing - I've never found that there was a learning curve with it.  On the other hand, it's always been something like this: can't do it, can't do it, can't do it, can't do it, can't do it, can't do it, whoa! I can do it!  Keep at it, but get a firm idea in your mind of what you want to sound like.  In coaching my wife and daughter through learning the fiddle, it has been reiterated to me what a powerful tool just singing is as a way of understanding musical ideas - sing your guitar parts (or other instrument)!  Then sing the vocal melody - once you can do that independently, putting them together will probably be much easier.

Prof. Scratchy - nothing in the works, but haven't had any real contributions to make, either...  been playing a bunch at home to take the edge off work, but that's about it.

[Blues4u2go]

Frank,
Thanks for taking the time to break this down.  I am going to take a run at it now.   That G7 chord is a little different, but it will probably just take a little getting used to.   I do use my left hand thumb quite a bit.   

My search on Google for Church Bells Kid Prince Moore also pointed me to Ari Eisinger's forum.  It looks like this song will be on his new cd.   My teahcer had reccommended Ari's playing, and I first heard him here on Weenie Radio.  I sent him a note to see if I could order both cd's, but I have not heard anything yet.   Looking forward to it.

Thanks again,
Mike

[frankie]

Ari's fantastic, of course.  I haven't heard him play Church Bells in a while,  but I'm sure what made it onto the CD is perfect.  I could be happy as a guitar player subsisting on a steady diet of Ari's clams...

[lebordo]

Great job, Frank.

I've got Kid Price Moore's version of Chruch Bells [and the flip side of the same 78 (ARC 6-06-62), Sign of Judgement] on small MP3s as a result of a project I did a year or two ago for a friend in California.  So if anyone wants to her the Kid's version from 1936, and it's allowable to post it to the forum, I'll be happy to post it (or email it, if it's not supposed to be posted to the forum).

Although he recorded 11 sides for ARC and 6 sides for Decca -- all of which are available on LP or CD -- these are the only two I've ever heard.  Based on the titles of his other songs, these two are the only ones with a "gospel" tone to them, so they may not be representative.  But to me,  both seem a bit mysterious.  Seems to be a lot of tension -- kind of like he's caught with one foot in heaven and the other in hell.  His guitar reminds me a little bit of John Hurt's, yet with an eerie tone to it.  Of the two, Sign of Judgement is the stranger, at least to me.  A few of the base notes seem to purposely border on discord.

[frankie]

Like Church Bells, I haven't heard Sign of Judgement in ages, but I can still remember the chorus with that C sharp showing up in the bass.    It's almost as if he's going for a jazzy kind of sound - like a diminished passing chord between the change from the I (C) to the V7 (G7).  I'm not sure that's really what he intends, but it's fun to leave that note where he puts it, dissonance be damned.  Beautiful song.

[frankie]

These features are part of KPM's performance (iirc), as are the bass runs that I typically use on the IV (F) chord. 

I just got a chance to hear the original once again, thanks to the juke...  actually, the only similarities between KPM's recording and mine are the words and the riff under "I know my time ain't long".  Everything else, I guess, I must have stolen from Ari!  Oh, well...  that's what you get from relying on memory...  In retrospect, I guess I have heard Ari play this pretty often, much more often than I've sat down and listened to Kid Prince Moore.  Ari has the advantage of being alive.

It'll be interesting to see what the recording of it on his CD sounds like.

[Buzz]

"Old Guys", indeed!  I will be fifty--eight  next week, so I think my age and gray hair qualify me as an old guy ....though I ain't as old as the real old guys we love to hear. Great compliment from Stephanie, Slack.

I agree, Frank. You sound, simply, "great".

Andrew: I am going to combine all those (Frankie and Gibson, Frankie and Martin) tunes in a row, and burn them to a cd--great idea!

Love this site, Slack!

Miller