Topic: Mississippi Sheiks Lyrics

[frankie]

I like 'em a lot, although they do tend toward a certain repetetiveness.  One fiddler I know said "I love those guys - both tunes!"  I wouldn't go nearly that far, but I can see his point.  I think there's a lot of great stuff in there, plus I think they had a lot of class as musicians and even when they're borrowing one of their own themes, they bring something new to the table.

[uncle bud]

A little repetitiveness, yes, but not that much. Listening to a compilation (like the Yazoo or the Catfish discs), one is struck by the sheer variety of material IMO. Listening to the Documents, all in a row (with the exception of Vol 3 in my case which is unavailable from Document right now, the bastards), yes, some repetition comes into play. (The same could be said of Lemon, even moreso). Although with material from Walter Vinson, Bo Carter, and Sam Chatmon there's still huge variety. And as Frank says, even when they repeat themselves, therre's an effort to be different, musically and lyrically: Stop and Listen no. 1 and 2, Overtime Blues and Church Bell Blues, even the bouncy boom-chang pop songs. I love 'em. Walter Vinson is one of the best CB lyricists, IMO. And when he's not playing, you get Bo or Sam. Serious depth. They're like a powerhouse ball team.

[motmot]

< ... snip ...> vocal phrasing is slightly ahead of the beat, where LC's fiddle is either dead on the beat or slightly behind.? If you listen carefully, the effect is pretty amazing - like an echo or delay.? It takes real discipline to pull it off, too...? wow!?

That's an example of the tension that I was going on so about in the other thread (the kind of tension that I find sometimes to be frowned on by some (emphasize "some") in the oldtime community). (Please note all the qualifiers in there.)? Here, it's rhythmic tension.? But there's melodic tension in "LLR," too, in the note that WV sings on the second syllable of "river" in the "lazy, lazy river" line.? (If you do it in eflat, that note works out to be, what?, a b natural?)

As for the "both tunes" critique, I disagree; to my ears, they had far more than two tunes, or even two arrangements.? Perhaps any sense of repetitiveness is more a function of the pretty much same instrumentation (fiddle, guitar, and usually vocal) over lots and lots of recordings ...?

[frankie]

If you do it in eflat, that note works out to be, what?, a b natural?

Yeah, but you'd probably be stuck having to name it something weird like Cflat since it represents the flatted 6th of the scale, which would normally be C.  Same note in either case, of course.

As for the "both tunes" critique, I disagree; to my ears, they had far more than two tunes, or even two arrangements.

Please note that I said that could see his point, not that I agree.  He wasn't saying at all that they literally had two arrangements, simply that he found a lot of what they do to be "samey".  The same critique could be levelled at Blind Blake, if you think about it...  I don't agree in either case, but I listen for different stuff than the people who might think that about either the Sheiks or Blake.

Different strokes and all that...  even for them fiddlers...

[motmot]

The same critique could be levelled at Blind Blake, if you think about it...? I don't agree in either case, but I listen for different stuff than the people who might think that about either the Sheiks or Blake.

We're singing from the same page of the same hymnbook.

But now you've got me thinking about Cflats and flatted sixths ...

best,
Tom

[frankie]

I've been thinking about this tune because I was noodling around with the melody on a mandolin the other day.? Playing in E flat on the fiddle, when fingering the flat 6th note in the melody (lazy, lazy river), should the first finger or second finger be used?? Kind of an academic question, I guess...

[Johnm]

Hi Frank,
Does the flat 6 note in the melody resolve to the V note?  If so, seems like you would use the second finger for the flat 6 and the index finger for the V note.
All best,
John

[frankie]

Yes it does.? That fingering works for me - thanks!

Incidentally, I was thinking of alternative ways of harmonizing the chorus after talking about this song over the holidays.? I think this could sound pretty good, even if it's not what the Sheiks are pulling off on the record:

Eflat

When I find that river


?Aflat? Aflat minor

That lazy, lazy river


Eflat?Bflat Eflat

Then my life will be? complete

Kinda fits in with more typical pop harmony, and is the kind of move a few of the more sophisticated blues musicians would employ...

[Johnm]

I like the re-harmonization, Frank.  It sounds more "right" to me.  When doing Sheiks material it seems fine to embrace the more Pop elements of the music since they were so clearly into it.
All best,
Johnm

[frankie]

It's funny, but it dawned on me that the IV to IV minor movement is something that gets used in straight blues pretty often, but it's rarely (if ever?) so tightly knit to the melodic line.

The song came up while playing with a friend over the holidays - he was the one who suggested the IV chord, but followed it with a flat VI chord.  That follows the melody, but didn't move me all that much...  it sounded to jarring to me.  Took me a while to settle on the minor IV...  glad you like it - it definitely makes hitting that flat VI note in the melody a lot easier.  I dunno how WV did that while playing the I chord!

[Mark]

Hey folks -

I've been trying to get the lyrics to this Sheiks tune written down, and I have one blank left in the third verse.? Would anyone care to take a stab at filling it in for me?? Any alternate ideas on the rest of the lyrics would also be appreciated.? This song is on "Violin Sing The Blues For Me".



When I left town this morning, I was on my way back home
Now don't you a-hear me talking pretty mama
When I left town this morning I was on my way back home
I heard the hoo-oo church bells making a hoo-oo mournful tone

I stopped to listen as the bells come clangin' on
Now don't you a-hear me talking pretty mama
I stopped to listen as the bells were clangin'(?) on
I know by that it somebody dead and gone

When I got home the people paid me respect
Now don't you a-hear me talking pretty mama
When I got home the people paid me respect
____?____ your sweet little hoo-oo faror's dead

When I got home I begin to scream and cry
Now don't you a-hear me talking pretty mama
When I got home I begin to scream and cry
I thought my little hoo-oo baby was too-oo cute to die

I went to the church house, cried at the door
Now don't you a-hear me talking pretty mama
I went to the church house, cried at the door
I never will see my sweet babe anymore.


Thanks,

Mark.

[uncle bud]

Hi Mark,

Pretty much dead on with a few minor points, IMO:

I stopped to listen as the bells come clangin' on

I stopped and listened as the...

When I got home the people paid me respect
Now don't you a-hear me talking pretty mama
When I got home the people paid me respect
____?____ your sweet little hoo-oo faror's dead

Cryin' 'Run here oooh-ooh, your sweet little hoo-oo faro's dead'

When I got home I begin to scream and cry
Now don't you a-hear me talking pretty mama
When I got home I begin to scream and cry
I thought my little hoo-oo baby was too-oo cute to die

I thought my little o-ooo-ld baby was too-oo cute to die
UB

[frankie]

I stopped to listen as the bells come clangin' on
Now don't you a-hear me talking pretty mama
I stopped to listen as the bells were clangin'(?) on
I know by that it somebody dead and gone

I hear this as:

I stopped and listened as the bells continued on
Now don't you a-hear me talking pretty mama
I stopped and listened as the bells continued on
I know by that it somebody's dead and gone

When I got home the people paid me respect
Now don't you a-hear me talking pretty mama
When I got home the people paid me respect
____?____ your sweet little hoo-oo faror's dead

This is what I have:

When I got home the peoples met me and said
Now don't you a-hear me talking pretty mama
When I got home the peoples met me and said
Now run here ooooh Walter, your sweet little faro's dead

verse 3:  WV introduces and "r" sound between the words "me" & "and".  I've heard this before either between words that have no intervening consonant sounds, or just syllables that lack a consonant sound - for example, "going" is often pronounced "goring".

verse 3:  faro - girlfriend.

The rest looks ok to me.

[uncle bud]

Listening again, I agree with Frank on all counts. Good ears, Frank, especially on that added 'r', which seems very clear to me now that you've pointed it out. The "continued" as well is more audible in the repetition than the first time round.

[frankie]

I think Bo Carter does the "r" thing a lot, too...  Once you hear it, it pops up all over the place.