Topic: Spoonfull...was a capo what I needed???

[Blue in VT]

Howdy all,

So I was messing around the other night trying to figure out why I'm having such trouble with my singing sounding right...and then I tried something that will seem very obvious to most folks...I put a capo on the first fret....DUH!!!  since I'm just getting into singing I hadn't even taken my capo out of the case in over a year...but I think it makes a huge difference.  what do you think?  Do you use a capo when singing the blues?

Here's the details:
Song: Spoonfull (Mance Lipscomb..as taught by E. Hawkins)
Guitar: Larrivee OM-05MT...capo 1st fret
Strings: Elixir Nanoweb Light PBs.
Recorder: Sony MZ N707 minidisc
Microphone: Sony ECM-OS70P...about 15 inches from guitar
Software: Audacity
Clumsy fingers:  ALL MINE!!!   
Link: http://media.putfile.com/Mary-Helen---spoonfull-capo-words

Cheers,

Blue

[NevadaPic]

Do you use a capo when singing the blues?

No.  Nor do I use one when playing the blues either.  Whenever I think of the capo I wonder "How does one capo a piano?"  Or "How does one capo a saxophone?"  Throw it away!  Learn to live without it.  It's a crutch that will ultimately limit your playing not help it.

Pic 

[CF]

A lot of the greats used capos. Try playing a rag in E flat or C sharp without one! Chording on a guitar would have different capabilties than on a piano I would think.

[dj]

You can't bend notes on a piano, so I guess that's out, too.   

I use a capo all the time.  You just have to decide if you want to be more like Tuck Andress or Blind Boy Fuller.  I'll take Fuller any day.  Both existing pictures of Fuller with a guitar show him with a capo.   

[frankie]

It's a crutch that will ultimately limit your playing not help it.

So...  what exactly is wrong with a limit?

[Johnm]

Hi all,
I think cheapfeet and dj's point is a good one--use of the capo is idiomatic in Country Blues.  Certainly not everyone used capos, but a large percentage did, and there's a host of sounds that are not available at the pitch in which they were played without using a capo, e.g., virtually anything by Henry Thomas, the duet sound of Frank Stokes and Dan Sane, Clifford Gibson's sound in Spanish, Robert Petway's sound, Charley Jordan's sound in E position, et al.  If these players chose not to reject capos, why should present-day players reject them?
All best,
Johnm 

[Rivers]

I used to not use a capo but playing with ppl who like to sing and write songs in Bflat and Fsharp cured me of that. Actually I still do the Bflat tunes without a capo but am in closed chord mode throughout. The descent to the V (F) sounds really nice in Bflat.

IMO There are no rules, you make the rules for your own playing and they change as you progress. If you're wanting to sound exactly like someone though you need to know exactly what they were doing and try to do the same, the different open strings available are key.

Personally I've come to think it's a good exercise to try and make a copy of the great masters, like doing boilerplate calligraphy. Then forget it and just play, you're pretty much guaranteed to have taken on some elements of style.

PS I used to be a Shubb bigot, til somebody loaned me a Kyser recently..! (Now watch this thread degenerate into a 'best capo brand' debate...)

[Stuart]

Why limit yourself to only not using a capo? You can do both.

[waxwing]

[Edit - well, now this looks like piling on, but, Pic, when I started typing there were only 4 posts, and I don't think everything I'm saying is redundant, so...]

I could see how not using a capo could be a problem if you only had a limited vocal range. I take it you have a pretty broad range and can sing in whatever key you choose to play in? That's great. But what if you were limited to singing primarily in the keys of, say B through D? That would mean that the wonderfully distinctive  phrasing available in the keys of E, F G and A would be pretty much useless to you and you would be confined to transposing every song into the keys of B, C and D, which I think would bore your audience pretty quickly. Okay, throw in E, too, I mean it wouldn't be the blues without a few tunes in E, so we'll stretch a few vocal notes at the top. Still...

I think it's a noble thought, that capos are "cheaters" as RGD proudly says, but, realistically, and historically speaking, the capo has pretty much always been a part of the blues. It comes in particularly handy when dueting, where two guitars can play in different voicings. Unless you feel all players need to elevate their playing to the level of jazz players (as I think dj is suggesting) which, to my mind, really changes the old country blues into something else entirely and makes it more elitist.

I'm not saying you shouldn't learn your chord voicings up the neck to find some good licks, but it's the use of open strings that makes the sound of the old blues what it is, to me. But hey, I like to listen to the old jazz greats, too, don't get me wrong.

Like most of the old players, if you stole a great arrangement but it's too low for your singing voice, capo it up a bit. Too high? Capo up and sing down an octave. Having a good solid vocal is of prime importance in the blues.

BTW, not fair comparing single note instruments like sax to guitar.-G- And piano? Okay, there's a little difference phrasing from one key to the next, 'cause of the black keys, but still, not really a fair comparison.

Blue in VT - sorry, I can't seem to access any of your Putfile postings so can't really critique your singing. [attempt at veering away from 'best capo brand' debate and getting back on topic.-G-]

All for now.
John C.

[NevadaPic]

Folks,

All I know is when you strap a capo over your frets you immediately remove a 1/12th, a 1/6th, a 1/5th, a 1/4th, a 1/3rd, a 1/2 (God help ya) of your fingerboard and all the possibilities therein.  The same applies to all the musicians you cite for better or worse.  The capo makes convenient the use of certain chord shapes and now 'open' strings that would not otherwise be available.  However, I determined for myself some time ago that this was not helping me become a better guitar player. 

As some of you may have noted by now, I take as my ideal acoustic guitar player the Reverend Gary Davis.  From what I have been able to determine, the capo was a foreign object to him.  He used the entire fingerboard regardless of the key he was playing in.  IN MY OPINION, the capo is a crutch.  Pardon me for ruffling feathers here.  No one has to agree with me!  I don't wish to offend, I just wish to express my opinion. 

Pic     

[frankie]

As some of you may have noted by now, I take as my ideal acoustic guitar player the Reverend Gary Davis.  From what I have been able to determine, the capo was a foreign object to him.

Except for 'I Am The Light Of This World' from his 1935 session - pitch is roughly E (a bit sharp), but he's clearly playing C figures.

Capo, no capo - whatever.  As long as it sounds good.

[waxwing]

No ruffled feathers here, Pic, and I look forward to hearing your singing and playing at PT. Not to mention sharing a few cocktail hours trading tunes. Express away!

Here's a Clifford Gibson tune I do, right about at the same pitch he did it. The little Stella is tuned to Spanish at A and capoed to 6. Yep, cuts the neck right in half, as you point out, but I manage to reach over the body a bit.-G- Fits my voice pretty well. Now I just don't think I could get that feel playing open, even if I wanted to try to transpose it to some key I could sing in.

All for now.
John C.

[CF]

I capo mostly for the sake of my vocals. It's all about songs for me. If I have to capo, punch or throw the damn guitar in the river for the sake of the song then I will do it. I've never earnestly practised guitar at all unless I was learning or working on a song with vocals. I'm of the opinion that many of the greats were 'song' guys too & that the overt attention to guitar technique & skill has created generations of many fancy pickers but very few good or great interpreters or writers of songs themselves.    
I couldn't hear your song either Blue . . .

[markm]

I see a capo as just another tool in the box.  Many applications, as mentioned before, require that tool to do the job correctly, or with less effort.  It is not really a matter of limitation.  You won't see a carpenter refusing to use a particular tool to do the job if that tool does the job better than any other.  I see the limitation enter the picture if you deny yourself access to the right tools.

Mark

[Rivers]

Exactly my point... you want to play Rev. Gary songs like Rev. Gary don't use a capo. The reverse is also true. Larry Johnson has a thing about not using them, gave somebody hell at Port Townsend one year about it. Larry of course is a protege of the Rev.

I hadn't realized the early version of 'Light..' was capoed Frank, thanks, must study that carefully. As for my version, and as your namesake would say, "I did it my way".

Re. removing 1/12th, etc, of the fretboard, how often do you play up there? I do a bit since I'm a jazz dabbler. More than one luthier has told me very few acoustic guitars get any wear above the 5th fret, and fewer still above the 7th fret. So that gives most players a lot of latitude. And if you know enough inversions it's even less of a problem. Capo, no capo, who cares? The music produced trumps the technique and tricks employed.