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Baby don't sic your dogs on me - Bukka White, Sic 'Em Dogs

Author Topic: Jack Kelly + Will Batts  (Read 11582 times)

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Offline Montgomery

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Jack Kelly + Will Batts
« on: June 08, 2004, 03:00:28 PM »
I'm trying to figure out the main riff for "Country Woman," by Will Batts.  Jack Kelly also plays on this recording.  This is a riff that Kelly and his band use often but I can't get it to sound quite right. 

Offline GhostRider

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Re: Jack Kelly + Will Batts
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2004, 03:37:11 PM »
Hey Montie:

Would it be possible for you to post a .mp3 of this tune?. A discussion of how to do this can be found near the beginning of the It Won't Be Long Now" (Licks and Lyrics) thread. A link to CDex, a free Alex-proof .mp3 conversion utility can be found in the middle of the "Good Boy Blues" thread.

Good luck,
Alex

Offline frankie

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Re: Jack Kelly + Will Batts
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2004, 05:36:03 PM »
Are you trying to get the riff that's being played in the foreground?  It's playable in standard tuning, A position, but sounds to me like he's in spanish tuning - probably tuned up to A or capoed 2 frets.

I need to play around with the flatpicked part in the background...  the open strums and note choices make me think that it's being played out of spanish tuning, too.  The main guitar sounds like a resonator guitar to me, the backup guitar sounds like a regular acoustic box.

If I get a chance later, I'll post some more - somebody else may chime in with ideas by then, though.

Offline Montgomery

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Re: Jack Kelly + Will Batts
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2004, 05:47:35 PM »
Pryo--I'll try to post this tune later today if I get the time. If not, then tomorrow.
Frankie, thanks for the suggestions.  I had tried in standard A, but I couldn't get that sound, so I wondered if it was in an alternate tuning. Of course, there's two guitars here at work, but I think one could do a passable arrangement with just one.  I'll retune one of my guitars tonight and try it in spanish, and see if I come up with anything else. 
Thanks again

Offline frankie

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Re: Jack Kelly + Will Batts
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2004, 06:50:48 PM »
Just updating with the tune...

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Online Slack

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Re: Jack Kelly + Will Batts
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2004, 07:35:15 PM »
Agree with Frankie, sounds like Spanish to me and it works (I've always gotta double check with my ear <g>) ... the wooden box is tougher to tell - but probably spanish too. The guitars may be capoed, but not uncommon to tune to open A.

cheers,

Offline frankie

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Re: Jack Kelly + Will Batts
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2004, 07:55:54 PM »
Maybe this'll help a little bit with some of the main parts of the riff.  I'm not sure I've got it down exactly - I had to do it from memory because the kids are asleep in the bedroom with the CD player in it (long story).  Maybe tomorrow I'll take a stab at the second guitar part & revisit the first with a better picture of what's going on.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2008, 04:23:48 AM by frankie »

Offline frankie

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Re: Jack Kelly + Will Batts
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2004, 08:10:36 PM »
BTW - this is a great tune...  the same basic accompaniment is used for Jack Kelly's Highway No. 61 Blues.

Online Slack

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Re: Jack Kelly + Will Batts
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2004, 08:15:57 PM »
Nice Adhoc lesson Frank!  Looking forward to installment 2!

Agree again, it's a great tune.

cheers,


Offline Johnm

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Re: Jack Kelly + Will Batts
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2004, 10:53:44 PM »
Hi guys,
Thanks for posting the tune and and the run-through, Frank.? I agree with you all--it's a real good tune.? It seems very closely related to Charley Patton's "Pea Vine", and less closely related to Skip James's "Special Rider".? It sure sounds like the second guitar is in Spanish, too.? It sounds like he has a V note on top in his I chord, which would be the open first string in Spanish, though it would work for A, standard tuning as well.? The IV chord sounds more like a Spanish IV chord than an A standard one.? It's a bit hard to separate out the lead guitar from the back-up, though.? Does it sound to you all like the lead guitarist is doing anything with his thumb?? I sure can't hear it if he is.
All best,
Johnm?
« Last Edit: April 08, 2005, 10:44:03 PM by Johnm »

Offline frankie

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Re: Jack Kelly + Will Batts
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2004, 03:23:27 AM »
If he's playing anything with his thumb, it's definitely not on the bass strings, which he seems to avoid just about completely.? I wasn't as rigorous about that when worked up my feeble demo, although I probably should have been.

I'm not sure I hear much of a IV chord at all - possibly just a whiff of one.? I hear the IV note, but it sounds like it's usually played in combination with the II note (3rd string, 2nd fret), so it sounds to me like the dominant V7 chord.? At what point in the tune do you hear a IV chord?? One candidate could be after the first and second lines of each verse...? I confess that I think of the tune as a two-chord piece, kinda like Joliet Bound.

Edited to add - the lack of any bass strings in the lead part makes me wonder if a tenor guitar was being used, but tuned to spanish (A)...? Just a thought...? I'm pretty sure that National tenor guitars were available.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2005, 10:46:32 PM by Johnm »

Offline Johnm

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Re: Jack Kelly + Will Batts
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2004, 08:28:20 AM »
Hi Frank,
I hear the IV chord just where you said, but only in the second guitar.? I think the lead guitar is just where you have it, but the second guitar has a little clashy thing going where it could be either:? 2nd fret 4th, open 3rd, 1st fret 2nd, 2nd fret 1st, in Spanish, or barre of the 2nd, 3rd and 4th strings at the 5th fret in Spanish (1st string not played), or a D chord in A standard.? The combination of the lead guitar, with its second fret of the 3rd string and the back-up guitar makes a IV 6th chord, which is a pretty cool sound.? I will listen some more to make sure I'm not hallucinating this whole thing.
All best,
Johnm
« Last Edit: April 08, 2005, 10:48:41 PM by Johnm »

Offline Johnm

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Re: Jack Kelly + Will Batts
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2004, 08:34:01 AM »
Oops, a couple of things I forget to mention.? I think the tune is like "Pea Vine" only in what happens behind the vocals--the response phrases are completely different.? Also, I wonder if the lead guitarist might be playing with a pick?? I have wondered the same thing about Memphis Minnie in some of her duets with Kansas Joe, where a thumb part for her lead guitar part seems eerily absent.? It would certainly open things up to have only the second guitar handling the bass.
All best,
Johnm
« Last Edit: April 08, 2005, 10:50:22 PM by Johnm »

Offline frankie

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Re: Jack Kelly + Will Batts
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2004, 08:47:44 AM »
I see what you're saying - I was thinking more of the lead part.  I do remember futzing around with one of the breaks thinking that it sounds kinda like the whole thing goes to the IV, but then it turned out (thinking more again about the lead part) that it was the V7...  maybe that's where the confusion sets in...  the backup guitarist is playing the IV while the lead plays the V7.  Only in Memphis!

The backup guitar definitely sounds flatpicked - the tone on the lead guitar sounds a little rounder - more like it's being fingerpicked...  just a guess though.  In some spots, it almost sounds as if he's pulling up on the string - a little like Furry Lewis.  Memphis Minnie springs to mind also, but a specific example doesn't exactly jump out.  Maybe "I Don't Want That Junk Outta You"?

Does it sound as if the backup guitarist has a plain G string?  Seems to have this weird jangle going on...

Offline frankie

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Re: Jack Kelly + Will Batts
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2004, 09:34:47 AM »
If he's playing anything with his thumb, it's definitely not on the bass strings, which he seems to avoid just about completely.

Ooops - I take it back.? I was just listening closely and I think that the lead guitar is playing a steady drone on the bass strings - mostly sticking with the open 5th string even when whatever chord is being played would seem to dictate otherwise.? Listen to the opening verse - after the initial phrase (where there doesn't seem to be any bass from the lead guitarist), the backup guitar (most certainly flatpicked) jumps up to play eighth notes on the open third string.? I'm pretty sure that I can make out a clear bass drone while that's happening.? Unless there's a third guitar, that would have to be played by the other guitarist.

Also, the drone persists while the backup guitar is clearly playing a boom-chang type accompaniment in spots - I think the drone has to be the lead guitarists' thumb...

Of course, this makes my feeble demo ever feebler - back to the drawing board!
« Last Edit: April 08, 2005, 10:52:23 PM by Johnm »

 


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