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Author Topic: Miller's Breakdown  (Read 244481 times)

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Offline Old Man Ned

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #2340 on: March 04, 2022, 12:54:39 PM »
For Pete Franklin's "I Got To Find My Baby": I agree, he sounds in E standard tuned a half step low.
Can't say anything about his V7 chord. For his picking hand playing his descending lick from :09--:12 I've only come up with the suggestion that he's alternating between his thumb and index finger on each string.
Really can't say anything on how he strung his guitar other than the strings sounds a bit slack but that could be just because I'm hearing him tuned a bit low.

Found this a tough one but love Pete Franklin's playing.

All the Best,
Ned

Offline Forgetful Jones

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #2341 on: March 05, 2022, 08:05:47 AM »
Johnny Lewis sounds like he’s playing a lot of similar lines as Fred McDowell, so I lean vestapol tuning. That would put the lick at :18 on the 3rd frets of the 2nd & 3rd strings.

Pete Franklin sounds like he’s in standard tuning, E position.
For his B7 chord, it sounds like he’s fretting the 6th string 2nd fret as opposed to the 5th string 2nd fret.
From :09-:12 I think he may be using his thumb to first hit a note then drag through the other strings.
Man, I don’t know how to answer this one, but it sure is pretty. He plays so heavy handedly through the song then this delicate part comes in. I love it.  I assume by asking how the guitar is strung, that’s a different question than how it’s tuned. Does he maybe have a couple strings switched? Or possibly 2 strings tuned in unison?

Nice song selections. Glad I got in on this one, though I’m not too confident in my responses.

Cheers!

Offline Johnm

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #2342 on: March 07, 2022, 10:38:23 AM »
Hi all,
The Johnie Lewis and Pete Franklin puzzlers have been up a while and I think that those who intended to respond have done so by now, so I'll post the answers.

For Johnie Lewis's "Baby, Listen To Me How":
   * His playing position/tuning was Vestapol, as Forgetful Jones had it. Many of the non-slide runs he plays at the base of the neck do sound akin to those that might be played in E position in standard tuning, but there are a couple of give-aways that it is Vestapol that he was using to play the song:
     1) He never plays a note lower than the V note on his fifth string, And in Vestapol the open fifth string is a V note.
     2) Every time he goes to a IV chord, he voices the third of the chord rather than the root in the bass, on the fifth string. In Vestapol that third lives at the second fret of the fifth string, and in standard tuning, E position it lives at the fourth fret of the fifth string. Were he playing in E position standard tuning, there would be no musical reason to voice the IV chord with its third int he bass rather than its root, which would be the open fifth string.
     3) When he goes to his V chord, at 1:20, he is voicing the root on the fifth string and the fifth on the fourth string, which in Vestapol is fretted 0-2, going from the fifth to the fourth string. In E position, standard tuning, the same sound would be fretted 2-4 on the fifth and fourth strings, and as far as I know, no one did that.
   * The run from :18--:20 begins on the + of beat one with a slide to the third fret of the third string, beat two is a triplet going from the open second string to its third fret and returning to the open string, beat three is another triplet begin with a re-slide to the third fret of the third string rolled by the third fret of the second string resolving to the open second string, and beat four is another triplet which goes from the first fret of the third string to the open third string and resolves to the open fourth string.

I hadn't listened to the Johnie Lewis CD in a number of years, and was surprised to find how different my impression of his playing is now than it was then. When I first heard him, I thought it was pretty rough playing and wasn't all that impressed. When I listened to a number of his songs to choose one for the puzzler, I found that he sounded terrific to me, really nuanced and varied in his playing. You can tell he wasn't big on damping behind his slide, but that doesn't bother me now. It's crazy to expect all slide players to have the facility and tone of Blind Willie Johnson, Tampa Red or Rev. Edward Clayborn--after all, there was only one of each of those players! It's a kind of long-winded way of saying Johnie Lewis just sounds great to me, both vocally and instrumentally.

For Pete Franklin's "I Got To Find My Baby":
   * His playing position was E position in standard tuning, as I believe every responder had it--well done!
   * Throughout his rendition, Pete Franklin voice his V7 chord with its fifth in the bass, 2-X-1-2-0-X. I don't believe he ever plays anything on the first string in his V7 chord, usually just sounding the open second string on top.
   * For the descending lick from :09--:12, he is playing triplets, and in the picking hand he is playing the first and third notes of the triplets with his thumb and picking what happens over the second note of the triplet with his fingers, sometimes getting a couple of notes via pull-offs. It is wonderful, splashy turn-around, I think, and as Professor Scratchy noted, it really works a lot of the same territory as Scrapper Blackwell's playing in E position in standard tuning.
   * The lick he plays from 2:12--2:18, and in particular, the beautiful vibrato and sustain he was able to get on his third string suggest that he was playing with an unwound, or plain third string. A number of you picked up on that.

I really wish Pete Franklin had been recorded more. There are a few cuts from the early '50s or late '40s out there, just one or two, and this Prestige album, which you may still be able to find on CD. A good portion of the Prestige Bluesville catalog was made available on CD before   
Concord Jazz purchased Fantasy, which owned the Prestige catalog, and pulled the plug on that. Notable Prestige-Bluesville recordings that did not make it on to CD in time: Henry Townsend, Wade Walton, Robert Curtis Smith, Shirley Griffith, Shirley Griffith and J. T. Adams, and Scrapper Blackwell and Brooks Berry.

I know that Nick Perls recorded a decent amount of Pete Franklin on the trip to Indianapolis during which he recorded Yank Rachell and Shirley Griffith for their Blue Goose albums. As I recall, there were not enough Pete Franklin cuts for a full album, but still several really good cuts which could have been put on an anthology. I heard a couple of the cuts, one of which Franklin played with an octave G string, something at which he was a master. Nick died before the pieces were ever released. I know that the music portion of his estate, and Yazoo and Blue Goose went to Shanachie Records, which was keeping Yazoo going for a while, and pretty much let Blue Goose go. I'm pretty sure you can still find a high-strung piece by Pete Franklin on youtube--it might be called "Guitar Pete's Blues" or something like that, and it was used several years ago in this thread.

Thanks to all who responded, and I hope that you enjoyed the songs. I'll search for some more songs that will make good puzzlers.

All best,
Johnm 
 
« Last Edit: April 14, 2022, 05:46:57 AM by Johnm »

Offline Johnm

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #2343 on: April 12, 2022, 09:28:05 AM »
Hi all,
It's been a little while since I posted any puzzlers so I thought I'd seek out some suitable tunes and put up a couple of puzzlers for those who are interested. The first is from Mississippian Charley Booker, a transitional player who recorded in the post-War period, sometimes for Sun Records. The performance here is "Walked All Night":



For Charley Booker's "Walked All Night":
   * What was his playing position/tuning?
   * At what point in his performance did you arrive at your determination of his playing position/tuning, and what was it that you heard that made your choice for you?

The second puzzler is from Furry Lewis, and it is his performance of "Shake 'Em On Down", from one of his Prestige Bluesville early '60s albums that Sam Charters produced. It features the "I've fallen in a well!" reverb that characterized all of the Charters-supervised recordings made in Memphis (Furry's and Memphis Willie B's two albums). Here is "Shake 'Em On Down":



For Furry Lewis's "Shake 'Em On Down":
   * What playing position/tuning did he use to play the song?
   * What aural factors contributed to your determination of his playing position/tuning?

Please don't post any response to the puzzler questions before 8:00 AM your time on Friday, April 15, and please use only your ears and guitar to arrive at your answers. Thanks for participating and I hope you enjoy the songs and Charley Booker's and Furry Lewis's performances of them.

All best,
Johnm

 
« Last Edit: April 18, 2022, 08:19:08 AM by Johnm »

Offline Old Man Ned

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #2344 on: April 15, 2022, 08:47:16 AM »
Charley Booker's "Walked All Night" I'm hearing in E standard tuning about a half step low. From the start the I chord sounds like it's played out of the D shape. @6 seconds I'm hearing an open 6th string. I first thought this might be played out of D or dropped D with capo on first fret but the open 6th string discounted that for me ie doesn't sound like a D note. The thing that made up my mind for E standard, a half step low was the final note that rings out. I'm hearing this as Eb.
 
Furry Lewis's "Shake 'Em On Down" I'm hearing in E using the EAEGBE tuning as there's parts that sound very similar to his 'Mean Mistreatin' Mama.

All the Best,
Ned

Offline banjochris

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #2345 on: April 15, 2022, 09:59:50 AM »
For "Walked All Night" I hear it in D – I'm not sure if it's dropped D or standard, because I'm not sure I hear a 6th string at all during the performance – the bass complicates things a bit and I'm listening on my laptop speakers. Sounded like D to me on the first pass – the lick over the IV chord with the third in the bass is a classic G7 lick and the A7 chord has a pretty distinctive sound too.
Chris

Offline Prof Scratchy

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #2346 on: April 16, 2022, 02:32:07 AM »
I’ll say D for Charley and drop D for Furry.

Offline David Kaatz

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #2347 on: April 16, 2022, 12:04:00 PM »
I'll go with E for Charley. It just has that sound, plus the starting lick lies so well at the 7th and 8th frets.
Furry sounds like either Drop-D or open D. He plays that signature (to me) sound of walking up in octaves on both the 6th and fourth strings, like Big Road Blues by Tommy Johnson, which is easily done in Drop-D tuning.

Offline Forgetful Jones

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #2348 on: April 16, 2022, 07:21:14 PM »
**Edited to include additional paragraph below**

For Charley Booker's "Walked All Night"
- I think he's in Drop D, playing in D. The way he plays his IV chord first reminded me of Robert Wilkins "I'll Go With Her," which is in standard tuning. The rumbling Low D note can be heard at times throughout the song, so I went with Dropped D.

I love this song so much. The guitar tone, the vocals, this simplicity of the solos, the driving rhythm. It's everything I want in early electric blues. Perfection.

For Furry Lewis's "Shake 'Em On Down"
I think he's in EAEGBE tuning, but lower. I went through process of elimination. You can tell there are open strings ringing so I tried Drop D and Vestapol. Neither fit, because I think I hear the root of Lewis's IV chord as an open string as well. I don't really know what I'm doing in this tuning, so I don't have a lot of confidence in the answer.

**For the sake of the exercise, I try these Breakdowns on my own before reading other people's responses. After reading the other answers I tried tuning to Standard to play "Walked All Night." BanjoChris, in particular had me questioning whether I was hearing guitar or bass in the low end. After listening again, however, I'm doubling down on Dropped D. The low root of the V chord (A position) is loud and clear telling me it's likely the open 5th string. The low register disappears during the IV chord (G), which makes sense in Dropped D, as that note would be up at the 5th fret. Not impossible, but that'd be pretty awkward to play.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2022, 07:46:28 PM by Forgetful Jones »

Offline Johnm

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #2349 on: April 26, 2022, 11:36:15 AM »
Hi all,
It has been over a week since the most recent response to the Charlie Booker and Furry Lewis puzzlers, so I will post the answers.

For Charlie Booker's "Walked All Night":
   * His playing position was D in standard tuning, as Chris had it. The point in the rendition at which I was sure that he was playing in either D in standard tuning or dropped-D was when he went to his IV chord, in which he voiced the third of the chord in the bass at the second fret of the fifth string, and went back and forth in the treble between third fret of the second string, and the first string, open and fretted at the first fret. The sound is so characteristic a sound for the IV chord when playing a blues in D. I never hear him hitting a low D note on the sixth string--rather, in the first four bars of the form, I hear him alternating between the open fifth string and the open fourth string, also a characteristic sound of playing in D position in standard tuning, a sound you encounter in pretty much all of John Hurt's tunes that he played in D in standard tuning.

For Furry Lewis' "Shake 'Em On Down":
   * His playing position was E in EAEGBE tuning as Old Man Ned and Forgetful Jones had it, and Furry is tuned low, as Forgetful Jones noted. I think the give-aways in terms of sound are his signature lick, in which he does a pull-off from the second fret of the second string to the open second string, followed by a hammer into the first fret of the third string. Forgetful Jones makes a good point too, about Furry voicing the root of the IV chord on the open fifth string. That note would note be available anywhere other than the fifth fret of the sixth string in Vestapol, cross-note or dropped-D. Also, when Furry goes to his V7 chord, he alternates right over the fourth string, going from the fifth string, second fret to the third string, second fret and then the second fret of the sixth string up to the third string, second fret. EAEGBE tuning also makes the "Big Road Blues" octave walk-up between the sixth and fourth strings readily available.

Thanks to all who participated in these puzzlers, and I hope folks enjoyed the songs and performances. I'll look for some more puzzlers to post.
All best,
Johnm
« Last Edit: April 26, 2022, 05:19:23 PM by Johnm »

Offline Forgetful Jones

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #2350 on: April 26, 2022, 05:03:14 PM »
As always, thanks for taking the time to put these puzzlers together, John- especially the detailed answers. I get excited when I get them right, and likewise, disappointed in myself when I flub it up.

Walked All Night got me to plug last week, which I hadn’t done in a while. I had fun playing it…in the wrong tuning.

Cheers!

Offline Johnm

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #2351 on: April 26, 2022, 05:21:44 PM »
Hi Forgetful Jones,
You didn't play it in the wrong tuning--just a different tuning. And without a bass player, it may well work better in dropped-D.
All best,
Johnm

Offline Johnm

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #2352 on: May 13, 2022, 11:09:18 AM »
Hi all,
I've found a couple of more puzzlers for those of you who are interested. The first is "Stop Jivin' Me", from Gabriel Brown, recorded on the Joe Davis label on September 13, 1944. Here is Gabriel Brown's performance:



INTRO

REFRAIN: Oh, you better stop jivin' me, better stop jivin' me
'Cause you spend my bucks, you're bound to have bad luck, you don't stop jivin' me
You'd better stop jivin' me, better stop jivin' me
Aw, you spend my bucks, you're bound to have bad luck, don't stop jivin' me

(Spoken) Now I took you out, baby, to have a good time
Now the first thing you want do, is make a sucker out of me
REFRAIN: You'd better stop jivin' me, better stop jivin' me
Aw, you spend my bucks, you're bound to have bad luck, don't stop jivin' me
REFRAIN: You'd better stop jivin' me, better stop jivin' me
Now, you spend my bucks, you're bound to have bad luck, don't stop jivin' me

(Spoken) Now you know you don't love me, baby, you ain't never loved me
You ain't never loved your baby, I ain't gonna love you no more
REFRAIN: Now you better stop jivin' me, you better stop jivin' me
Now, you spend my bucks, you're bound to have bad luck, don't stop jivin' me

SOLO

REFRAIN: You'd better stop jivin' me, better stop jivin' me
Oh, you spend my bucks, you're bound to have bad luck, don't stop jivin' me

(Spoken) Now one of these days, baby, gon' forget myself
I'm gon' knock you out, I'm gon' knock myself out, too
REFRAIN: You'd better stop jivin' me, better stop jivin' me
Now, you spend my bucks, you're bound to have bad luck, don't stop jivin' me

CODA

The questions on Gabriel Brown's "Stop Jivin' Me" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did he use to play the song?
   * What is he doing in the fretting hand as the song begins?
   * Where did Gabriel Brown fret the first two phrases of his solo, from 1:50--1:53?

The second puzzler is from Dan Pickett, and it is his version of "Decoration Day". Here it is:



The questions on Daniel Pickett's "Decoration Day" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did he use to play the song?
   * Where did Dan Pickett fret the ascending/descending fill he plays from :22--:23?

Please use only your ears and your guitars to arrive at your answers, and please don't post any answers before 8:00 AM your time on Monday, May16. Thanks for your participation and I hope that you enjoy the songs.
All best,
Johnm 
« Last Edit: June 04, 2022, 02:24:26 PM by Johnm »

Offline Johnm

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #2353 on: May 18, 2022, 06:28:22 AM »
Hi all,
Any takers for the Gabriel Brown and Dan Pickett puzzlers? Come one, come all!

Offline banjochris

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Re: Miller's Breakdown
« Reply #2354 on: May 18, 2022, 07:47:12 AM »
Sounds to me like Gabriel Brown is in drop D tuning and that at the beginning he's sliding a first position D chord from one fret low up to the D repeatedly.

Decoration Day sounds like it's in E capoed way up to A or somewhere like that. I thought it was in A position for a minute when it started up.

I hadn't heard "Stop Jivin' Me" before, John, thanks, that's a cool song!
Chris

 


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