Topic: Miller's Breakdown

[Johnm]

That's a great story about you playing with Thomas Shaw and him wanting the photo of himself with the sudience, Prof! Thanks for sharing that.
Are there any other takers for the Thomas Shaw and Emmett Murray puzzlers? Come one, come all!
All best,
Johnm

[Johnm]

Hi all,
There haven't been any new responses to the Thomas Shaw and Emmett Murphy puzzlers for a while now, so I will post the answers.

For Thomas Shaw's "Working Man Blues":
   * His playing position/tuning was D position in dropped-D tuning, as Larry had it--well done, Larry!
   * Over his IV chord in the first verse, I believe he is fingering his G chord on the fourth, third and second strings in an F shape moved up two frets: 5-4-3. He hits the fourth string with his thumb for the downbeat of the phrase, then walks up and down the second string, third fret, fifth fret, sixth fret, fifth fret, hits the fourth and third strings twice with his thumb, and after a little pause hits the third fret of the second string twice, kind of hesitantly, before resolving back to D.
   * For his interlude, between 1:18 and 1:24, he starts by sliding into the fifth fret of the second string and the third fret of the first string. He then slides that position up two frets, and then frets the eighth fret of the first string and plays that against the seventh fret of the second string, which gives him a D7 chord at that point. This would lay out pretty naturally in the fretting hand if you used your third finger for the fifth and seventh frets of the second string, your index finger for the third and fifth frets of the first string and your little finger for the eighth fret of the first string.

I think it would be interesting to do a book on Country Blues players who survived into the '60s and later decades who ended up living their adult lives a long way from where they were born--people like Thomas Shaw and Mercy Dee Walton who were born in Texas and ended up in California, or K.C. Douglas and Robert Lowery, from Mississippi and Arkansas, respectively, who similarly ended up in California, or Shirley Griffith, from Mississippi, who ended up in Indianapolis. I won't write it, but somebody should.

For Emmett Murray's "Dig Myself A Hole":
   * His playing position was E position in standard tuning but tuned very low.
   * For his A7 chord, he's voicing the third of the chord in the bass, so he's working out of a G shape. I think he fretted the fifth fret of the sixth string with his ring finger, the fourth fret of the fifth string with his second finger, the second fret of the fourth string with his index finger, sometimes plucked the open third string, and sometimes got the same pitch by using his little finger to fret the fifth fret of the fourth string. This whole approach to playing an A7 is so original! In some of his D blues, Scrapper Blackwell would finger a G7 like a B7 chord at the base of the neck, moved one string toward the bass and up one fret, like 3-2-3-0-3, going from the sixth to the second string. He would have access to the V note in the bass just by opening up on the fourth string. In Emmett Murray's context, if he wanted to get that V note in the bass, which he did, he had to fret it, at the second fret of the fourth string. I think he must have had really big hands, because that voicing is a "big hand" voicing, like some that Sam Chatman liked to use.
Emmett Murray used the same voicing for his B7 as he used for his A7, but up two frets, at 7-6-4 (7), fretting the sixth string with his third finger, the fifth string with his second finger, the fourth fret of his fourth string with his index finger and the seventh fret of the fourth string with his little finger. I hope that if you're a guitarist you'll try these voicings out--they have such a distinctive sound, and make some really different sounds available.
   * For his opening E chord in his verse two accompaniment, it sounds like Emmett Murray was fretting his fourth string at the sixth fret with his third or ring finger, the fourth fret of his third string with his index finger, the fifth fret of his second string with his second finger, and used his little finger to fret the eighth fret of the second string and the seventh fret of his third string. Different, huh!

It's always exciting to come across someone in this music who had such a different way of playing and hearing things. I take it as an affirmation that it is not necessary to steer right down the middle of the road when you're playing this music; it's perfectly capable of accommodating new and novel sounds. I should say that there is another Emmett Murray tune earlier in this thread that I think I like even better than this one, and I remember how baffled I was when I first heard it. Figuring it out requires recognition of possibilities you may not even have known were there.

Thanks to all who participated, and I hope you enjoyed the tunes.I'll look for some more to post. I keep thinking I'm going to run out of tunes.

All best,
Johnm

 


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[Prof Scratchy]

Well done Larry indeed! Emmett Murray's IV chord shape is too much of a finger stretcher for me, but of late I've been using this shape as an occasional IV chord in E: 5456x0 which I think has a 'different' sound to it and works in certain situations. It probably has a name, but I don't know what it would be!

[Johnm]

I know what you mean about Emmett Murray's IV7 and V7 fingerings, Prof. They are not only grabby but so stretched out, too--I can finger them, but the prospect of using them in any kind of context that required getting in and out of them quickly is pretty daunting. That IV chord you've been playing in E recently is actually an A7, but a pretty exotic voicing! R-3-7-3-x-5. I like the way you're doubling the third on the fifth and third strings--I'm going to have to try that one!
All best,
Johnm

[frailer24]

I've been using a modification of the Prof's inversion, 565xx5 for the IV and V, gives a very unique tonality!

[Old Man Ned]

And using something similar myself for a IV7b5, 5656xx in an arrangement I've done of the standard 'These Foolish Things'. Small world eh?

[Johnm]

Miller's Breakdown, Part 3

Since the first two lists of Miller's Breakdown of links to the various songs in the "What Is This Musician Doing?" thread are full, this post will serve as a continuation of the list of links, and will be brought up to date as new songs are added to the thread.


347. Working Man Blues--Tom Shaw
348. Dig Myself A Hole--Emmett Murray
349. Dark Old World--Big Bill Dotson
350. TNT Woman--Sonny Boy Holmes
351. Cross Country Blues--Frankie Lee Sims
352. Walking Talking Blues--Manny Nichols
353. Terraplane Blues--Frank Edwards
354. Baby Please Give Me A Break--Archie Edwards
355. Cryin' Won't Make Me Stay--Arthur Weston
356. Rabbit In A Log--John Lee Hooker
357. I Wonder--John Lee Hooker
358. Shake 'Em On Down--Booker White 
359. I'll Do Anything You Say--Charles Caldwell
360. She's A-Looking For Me--Herman E. Johnson
361. Baby, Listen To Me Howl--Johnie Lewis
362. I Got To Find My Baby--Guitar Pete Franklin
363. Walked All Night--Charlie Booker
364. Shake 'Em On Down--Furry Lewis
365. Stop Jivin' Me--Gabriel Brown
366. Decoration Day--Dan Pickett
367. Superstitious--Tarheel Slim
368. Mr. Postman Blues--Jenny Pope
369. Motherless Boy--Spark Plug Smith
370. Quarrelin' Mama Blues--Arthur Pettis
371. Farewell Daddy Blues--Ma Rainey
372. When You Dream Of Muddy Water--Edward Thompson
373. Pay Day Blues--Sylvester Cotton
374. Hair Like A Horse's Mane--Jim Brewer
375. Goin' Up The Country Blues--Arzo Youngblood
376. Georgia Blues--Cecil Barfield
377. Police In Mississippi Blues--Eugene Powell
378. So Cold In China--Eugene Powell
379. Slo-Freight Blues--Carolina Slim
380. In The Evening--Robert Petway
381. Sail On--Pete Franklin
382. Take Me Back To Mama--Shirley Griffith
383. Dresser Drawer Blues--Mott Willis
384. Bad Night Blues--Mott Willis
385. 1000 Women Blues--Homesick James
386. Sugar Coated Love--Cecil Barfield
387. Mississippi Flat--William "Do-Boy" Diamond
388. Shaggy Hound Blues, Take 2--William "Do-Boy" Diamond
389. Trashy Gang Blues--Mott Willis
390. Ain't No Lovin', Ain't No Gettin' Along--Jack Owens
 

[Johnm]

Hi all,
It's been a while since we've had any new puzzlers. I've got a couple now, and for these we'll just look for identifying the playing position/tuning. The first one is Big Bill Dotson doing "Dark Old World", and here it is:



What playing position/tuning did Big Bill Dotson use to play "Dark Old World"?

The second song is by Sonny Boy Holmes, and it is "TNT Woman". Here it is:



What playing position/tuning did Sonny Boy Holmes use to play "TNT Woman"?

Please use only your ears and your instrument to arrive at your answers, and please don't post any answers before 8:00 AM your time on Saturday, July 10. Thanks for your participation, and I hope you enjoy the songs.

All best,
Johnm

[blueshome]

I’ll go in feet first: BB Dotson drop D, SB Holmes E standard.

[Old Man Ned]

For Sonny Boy Holmes "TNT Woman" I'm thinking  E, standard tuning.

I'm finding places to get into hearing where this piece is coming from but for some reason my ears are having trouble with Big Bill Dotson's "Dark Old World". Maybe it's the slight echo effect of the recording that's throwing me but all I've got so far is A, standard about a half step low (?)

All the Best,
Ned

[Prof Scratchy]

I’ll say A for Big Bill Dotson and E for Sonny Boy.

[Johnm]

Hi all,
Any other takers for the Big Bill Dotson and Sonny Boy Holmes puzzlers? Come one, come all!
All best,
Johnm

[frailer24]

Big Bill Dotson seems to be in A standard, capoed 3 up.
Going with E for Sonny Boy.

[MarkC]

I second Frailer.

[Johnm]

Hi all,
It's been a while since there have been any new responses to the Big Bill Dotson and Sonny Boy Holmes puzzlers, so I'll post the answers.

For Big Bill Dotson's "Dark Old World":
   * His playing position was A position in standard tuning, as just about everybody had it.

For Sonny Boy Holmes' "TNT Woman":
   * His playing position was E position in standard tuning, as everyone had it.

Assuming that both of these performances were recorded in the post-war period, they provide yet another reminder that for solo blues players of whatever era, maintaining a consistent form with a consistent meter over the course of a rendition turns out to have been way down on the list of musical priorities. On his piece, Big Bill Dotson used IV and V chords interchangeably on occasion, and Sonny Boy Holmes played his instrumental fills to their logical conclusions, however that may have played out with regard to the meter. It seems that the primary impetus for maintaining any kind of formal or metric consistency only really comes into play when the blues becomes an ensemble music. Even then, there are early instances of ensemble blues playing in which the form and meter are treated every bit as variably as on solo cuts--the early Sleepy John Estes cuts with Yank Rachell and Jab Jones come to mind in this regard, and hearing how Yank and Jab are with Sleepy John every step of the way really makes you appreciate their focus and musicianship. You get some tense moments in some later ensemble blues recordings (Lil' Son Jackson, Smokey Hogg and K. C. Douglas come to mind) when the featured artist simply is unable to maintain the formal and metric consistency his accompanists are presuming he's going to be operating with, and the accompanists are not good enough listeners or paying enough attention to accommodate the formal and metric variations that the leader executes in the moment.

What one is left with is the impression that, within the musical culture that the blues grew up and evolved in, the sense of what constitutes a blues is much looser and less prescriptive than we may be accustomed to thinking of it being. At this point, I'm dubious as to whether the concept of a certain number of bars, as pertains to form, even comes into play. It seems much more likely that what is thought of is vocal phrases and instrumental responses, and working within that very loose framework, lyric archetypes, like AAB,  or chorus blues of various lengths. If you're clear in your own understanding of what a blues is, you recognize a blues in all its variations, just as you can identify what you consider not to be a blues, by virtue of essential qualities that you feel are missing in a rendition.

Thanks to all who responded to the puzzlers and I hope folks enjoyed the songs.

All best,
Johnm