Topic: Miller's Breakdown

[Prof Scratchy]

The questions on "80 Highway Blues" are:
   * What playing position/tuning are the two guitarists playing out of on the song? - I think one guitar is in Spanish and the other in G standard. The guitarist focussing on the treble runs is in G Standard.
   * Where does the guitarist focusing on the treble fret the run that he plays from :30--:32? - I'll say 1/3>0;2/3>2>1; 3/3>0

The questions on "War Blues" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did Pernell Charity use to play the song? - D standard?
   * Where does he fret the position at which he starts each verse's accompaniment? - From 1st position D chord slide to double stop abbreviated second position D chord at 1/5; 2/7. Then: 2/6>sl7; 1/5>7; 2/6b; 2/2.
   * Where does he fret the alternating bass he plays under his IV chord at 3:03--3:04 and elsewhere in the course of his rendition? I think he's fingering a G7 chord at 32300x and alternating the sixth and fourth strings.

[blueshome]

80 highway- 1st guitar in E standard capoed up, 2nd standard

Pernell - I'm with the Professor - D standard

Lovely album BTW.

[Johnm]

Hi all,
Any other takers on the Brownsville Son Bonds and Pernell Charity puzzlers?  Come one, come all!
All best,
Johnm

[Johnm]

Hi all,
Well, it appears that the Brownsville Son Bonds and Pernell Charity puzzlers are not generating many responses, so I'll post the answers.

For "Highway 80 Blues":
   * Both Son Bonds and Sleepy John Estes, who is seconding him, are playing out of G position in standard tuning.  They are right on top of each other, in the tradition of some of the Little Buddy Doyle duets or those of Guitar Slim and Jelly Belly.  The best way to tell their playing position by sound is the bass runs that are employed and the V7 chord played at the end of the form, which is a C7 shape moved up two frets and strummed so that the open first string, the 9 of that chord, can be heard on top.
   * The run that Son Bonds plays from :30--:32 starts on beat two of the seventh bar of the form.  On that beat he plays a triplet, hitting the sixth fret of the first string on all three notes.  On beat three of that bar, he plays another triplet, going from the third fret of the first string to the first fret of the first string, ending up at the third fret of the second string.  On beat four, he plays one more triplet, going from the second fret of the second string to the first fret of the second string and finishing on the third fret of the third string.  On 1 + of the eight bar, he goes from the open third string to the third fret of the first string, and on 2 + he goes from the open first string back to the third fret of the first string.  It's a great run!

When I hear duets like this one or some of the Little Buddy Doyle/Willie Tango ones, I'm reminded that it is definitely possible to be a bit too fastidious about leaving space for the other player, being careful to play in different registers, taking turns on fills, and all of the other values supposedly characteristic of sensitive musicians and good listeners.  There can be an excitement in both players just blasting and assuming things will work themselves out;  that certainly seems to have been the case here.

For Pernell Charity's "War Blues":
   * His playing position was D position in standard tuning, as both Prof Scratchy and blueshome had it--well done, guys!
   * Pernell Charity starts his accompaniment to each verse by fret the sixth fret of the second string with a bit of a bend and going up to the fifth fret of the first string, then taking that position down the neck, probably intact, to get the third fret of the second string.  He then moves the position back up the neck where he started, goes from the sixth fret second string to the fifth fret first string and then up to the seventh fret of the first string.
   * The bass that Pernell Charity alternated under his IV7 is just as Prof Scratchy had it, a G7 chord alternating between the third fret of the sixth and fourth strings, with the whole chord voiced 3-2-3-0-0-1.

As Phil noted, the Pernell Charity album is really a winner, if you can lay your hands on it.  He was an excellent and versatile guitarist and his singing grows on you.

Thanks to Prof Scratchy and blueshome for their participation.  I hope folks enjoyed the songs.  If you're a person who has been reading this thread but not participating, I'd like to encourage you to join in and post your answers to the puzzlers.  I suppose that if you don't post an answer you're never wrong, but you're not right either, and more importantly, participating and posting your best assessments as to the answers to the puzzlers makes you listen to the music harder than you do when you have nothing at stake.  And that deeper listening builds ear identification skills over time.  Give it a try--the stakes are not high and nobody's keeping score.

All best,
Johnm     

[Johnm]

Hi all,
I've got a couple of new puzzlers for those of you who are interested, and both of them are from Luther Huff, with an assist from his brother, Percy.  The first is "Dirty Disposition", and here is Luther's performance of the song:



I know you didn't want me when I first laid 'cross your bed
Drank moonshine whiskey, woman, talkin' all out your head
REFRAIN: You've got a dirty disposition, I can't stand the way you do
Say, you got a dirty disposition, woman, I just can't stand the way you do

Don't want you, woman, give me your right hand
I'll go to my woman, you can get you 'nother man
REFRAIN: 'Cause you've got a dirty disposition, I can't stand the way you do
Say, you got a dirty disposition, I declare I can't stand the way you do

The cats was growlin', the rats was on the run
I better move along 'cause my baby's got a gun
REFRAIN: She got a dirty disposition, I can't stand the way she do
Now, you got a dirty disposition, woman, I declare I can't stand the way you do

Woke up this mornin' and I went 'round the house
Seed a lot of tracks and I knowed it wasn't no mouse
REFRAIN: You got a dirty disposition, I can't stand the way you do
Say now, you goat a dirty disposition, woman, I declare I can't stand the way you do

SOLO (Spoken: One time now)

The questions on "Dirty Disposition" are:
   * What playing position/tuning is being used for the acoustic guitar on the track?
   * Where is the descending signature lick which is played at :10--:12 and again at :20--:22 fretted, and how would you name the notes of the lick numerically, in the scale?

The second puzzler is Luther Huff's "Rosalee".  Man, do I love this song and performance!  Here it is:



INTRO

REFRAIN: Now, Rosalee, who can your lover be?
Say now, reason I aks you, I want to know if there's any chance for me

Now look here, Rosalee, your shape is fine
That's why people beg you, Rosalee, to please be mine
REFRAIN: Now, Rosalee, who can your lover be?
Well, that's why I aks you, I want to know if there's any chance for me

Now, Rosalee, I know your number, fifty forty-four
If you just say a word, Rosalee, I'll just walk up on the third floor
REFRAIN: Now, Rosalee, who can your lover be?
Say now, reason I aks you, I want to know if there's any chance for me

One and one is two, Rosalee, two and two is four
If you just say the word, Rosalee, I would never let you go
REFRAIN: Now, Rosalee, who can your lover be?
Say now, reason I aks you, I want to know if there's any chance for me

OUTRO

The questions on "Rosalee" are:
   * What playing position/tuning do the two guitarists on the song employ (it's the same position for both guitarists)?
   * How did Luther and Percy Huff get to be so cool?

Please use only your ears and your musical instruments to arrive at your answers, and please don't post any answers before 8:00 AM your time on Wednesday, June 8.  Thanks for participating, and I hope you enjoy these songs
All best,
Johnm

[jpeters609]

Love these guys. And here's a partial answer to what made Luther and Percy so cool: they both listened to Tommy Johnson, Charlie McCoy (both clear influences), Ishmon Bracey, and Slim Duckett at picnics and on the streets of Jackson, Mississippi, in the 1940's (all according to interviews with Percy by Gayle Dean Wardlow). Also, Luther had lived in Detroit (my hometown) immediately before these sessions and moved back to Detroit soon afterward. This, of course, adds to his cool factor. Says me.

[Johnm]

Hi all,
Any takers for the Luther and Percy Huff cuts, "Dirty Disposition" and "Rosalee"?  Come one, come all!
All best,
Johnm

[banjochris]

I'm going to go with G standard on Dirty Disposition. It sounds like it could be Spanish; it's hard to hear the V chord but it sounds like a regular D to me, and also at the very end he plays a C chord with the G on top, which clinches it for me. I'm going to skip transcribing the lick because I don't have a guitar with me at the moment.

For Rosalee, I believe they're playing out of D position in standard tuning.

And why are they so cool? I don't know, but it's some great music!
Chris

[Forgetful Jones]

Hi all,
Any takers for the Luther and Percy Huff cuts, "Dirty Disposition" and "Rosalee"?  Come one, come all!

My ears sometimes play tricks on me, but I'm trying this in an attempt to get better at hearing what's going on.

I think Dirty Disposition is in G position/standard tuning. I really don't know much about naming notes & numbers, but for the descending riff I anchored my thumb on the G bass note and with my other fingers played:
1st string 3rd fret
1st string 2nd fret
1st string 1st fret
2nd string 3rd fret
2nd string 1st fret
3rd string 3rd fret (little bend?)

And the 2nd time at (:22) I think there's an additional open 2nd string added after the descending riff.

Rosalee sounds like standard tuning D position. I can hear the Tommy Johnson influence and was waiting for the Dropped D bass note that never came.
One thing that makes these guys cool is the quick endings to their songs!
"I wanna know if there's any chance for me"

[One-Eyed Ross]

I'll add a "me, too" to G standard on Dirty Disposition.  Didn't get a chance to work on Rosalee.  This life stuff is interfering with my guitar playing.

[Prof Scratchy]

For Dirty Disposition I slithered between G standard and Spanish, so to steal defeat from the jaws of victory I'll say Spanish. For the second one D standard. How could anyone called Luther Huff not be cool?


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[Pan]

Hi all,

I'm going to vote for G standard for "Dirty disposition". It sounds like he's switching from the 1st position G shape to an G7, and maybe even a G6 (open top E string), and a C shape to a C7 for the IV chord, and the V chord also sounds to me like a regular 1st position D shape in standard tuning.

For the run, I hear it going from the 1st string 3rd fret, to the 2nd fret; then down chromatically from the 2nd string 3rd fret to the 2nd fret and to the 1st fret; then 3rd string 3rd fret down to the open 3rd string.
If I'm not mistaken, scale wise the notes would be: root - Maj7 - 5 - b5 - 4 - b3 - root.
This is almost like a run down from the blues scale, except that instead of the usual b7 of the blues scale (1st string 1st fret ), he is playing a Major 7th, which is a little surprising in this context, and gives a nice bite to the lick, IMO.

For Rosalee, I too vote for D standard. As has been said, the low root of dropped D doesn't seem to be played, and for the IV chord, I think the root on the 6th string can be heard on some runs, which would be more awkward in dropped D than in standard tuning, since it would be on the 5th fret, instead of the usual 3rd fret.

Looking forward to hear John's analysis.

Cheers

Pan

[Old Man Ned]

In agreement with  G standard and D standard for "Dirty Disposition" and "Rosalee" respectively.  I think Pan has the run from 10:12 in "Dirty Disposition", numerically (?) the notes are I VII V bV IV bIII I.

For the last question, I guess Luther & Percy Huff were born cool, stayed cool and died cool.

[blueshome]

I'm with the Prof - Spanish and D

[Johnm]

Hi all,
I suspect all of the responses are in on Luther and Percy Huff's "Dirty Disposition" and "Rosalee", so I'll post the answers. 

For "Dirty Disposition":
   * The playing position/tuning for the acoustic guitar on the track was G position in standard tuning, as a number of you had it.  As Pan noted, the guitarist plays a regular D chord in standard tuning for his V chord, and as Chris noted, the real give-away is ending the song on a IV chord which is clearly a C chord voiced with its root in the bass, an implausible sound if playing in Spanish, apart from barring at the fifth fret, which would produce an altogether different sound.
   * The descending run from :10--:12 was fretted exactly as Pan had it, third fret to second fret on the first string, then third to second to first fret on the second string, then third fret of the third string to the open third string.  In the version from :20--:22, Luther ends the lick on the open second string, as Forgetful Jones pointed out.  The notes of the run, named as scale degrees, are also exactly as Pan had them: I-Maj7-5-b5-4-b3-1.  Well done, Pan!  I agree that the major 7 note is a real keeper--it gives the run a much more distinctive sound than hitting the b7 would have given the run.  You do run into major 7 notes in blues runs from time to time.  Bo Carter used one in the intro to "My Baby".  And that mayor 7 note sounds great against the IV chord.

For "Rosalee":
   * The playing position/tuning for both Luther and Percy Huff was D position in standard tuning.  Everyone who responded had that right--well done!
   * The second question was rhetorical, as I guess you all knew.  For me, they were so cool because they played and sang so well.  Great time, great material, so well played and sung, they had it all.  I wish they had recorded fifty or sixty or more sides like some of the early players.

Thanks to all who participated, and I hope you enjoyed the tunes.  I'll look for some more to post soon.

All best,
Johnm