Topic: 12 string tunings

[leonard]

I am learning that the 12 string should be tuned low d  or c  or even b
Is there a trick to this,man it sounds low.When I listen to Willie McTell
it does sound low,but mine sounds really loose. The b tuning isn't a open tuning is it?  Do you just tune the e string down to b then tune the rest in tune with it. like a  std 440 tuning only tuned to b? I bet thats a clear as mud.  Thanks Lenny
ps how can we get the juke turned back on soon.

[bighollowtwang]

Is there a trick to this,man it sounds low.When I listen to Willie McTell
it does sound low,but mine sounds really loose.

There's no trick - you should probably use heavier strings than what is usually available "over the counter" at your local guitar shop.
Blind Willie McTell allegedly used the following string gauges:
course 1: .013/.013
course 2: .017/.017
course 3: .013/.026
course 4: .017/.038
course 5: .022/.048
course 6: .026/.066
He also played what would be, by today's standards, a "long scale" instrument. You can get fairly close to his sound with one of those 60s Harmony Stella 12-strings (the fact that they have a tailpiece like some of the 20s and 30s 12-strings helps with the string tension issue).
Here's a video of what mine sounds like tuned to B:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=RL0CD4Fn1Eo
You can get these pretty cheap on ebay, they rarely go for over $200. They're ladder-braced, so they'll sound more "McTell-like" than modern x-braced guitars.

The b tuning isn't a open tuning is it?  Do you just tune the e string down to b then tune the rest in tune with it. like a  std 440 tuning only tuned to b? I bet thats a clear as mud.

Sometimes McTell tuned to Spanish or Vestapol tuning, but WAY low, but when he was in "standard" tuning it was the same intervals as standard tuning, only a half-octave low. When he was in B (on his last recordings he's tuned even lower) his tuning was B E A D F# B. On his earliest recordings where he's using a 12-string (his first recordings were done on a 6-string) he's tuned higher, as high as C# if memory serves me correctly (I'd put it on to double-check but I'm enjoying some Lil' Son Jackson right now and kinda don't feel like breaking the Texas mood right now haha).

As for clarity - you will get more clarity with bigger strings, and a ladder-braced guitar. I never liked the sound of a 12-string until I tried a ladder-braced 12-string.

[blueshome]

For lots of info on 12-string tuning go to www.fraulini.com.

[Yves]

and Harry Lewman website
He did a great DVD about Leabelly music on Stefan Grossman gtr workshop

Yves

[waxwing]

Just closing down 15 on Officer's row, Port Townsend. Irwin H. played piano again, with John M. Wow!

Good info from BHT, and also checkout this old thread with info and discussion about string set ups of various players like McTell, Leadbelly and Barbecue Bob.

http://weeniecampbell.com/yabbse/index.php?amp;Itemid=114&topic=398.0

All for now.
John C.

[leonard]

Thanks for all the info!  Does anyone know where I can purchase these thicker strings online? Thanks again Lenny

[leonard]

  I had been looking online for heavier gauge strings,didn't have much luck. I just ordered a heavier set from Harry Lewman. Thanks for the help.

[Nicolas Dussart]

Not strictly country blues but, Chris Proctor has also some useful information about the low tuning on a 12.
http://www.chrisproctor.com/cpgear.html
http://www.chrisproctor.com/cpdeepthoughts.html

Keep in mind that long scale, ladder braced 12-string are different from the more "conventional" 650mm scale, X-braced 12. I own the 2, I string my X-braced with 13-56 (GHS Leo Kottke set) down to C# in standard, and I use 14-66 on the ladder braced long scale, down to C in standard.

Nicolas.

[natterjack]

La Bella make a heavy guage 12 string set. I have just bought a couple of sets from Newtone Strings in the UK who will hand make what you ask for (I have 13 - 66) although I haven't put them on the guitar yet. D'addario make all the right strings, but not as a set.

Before I got my long-scale Fraulini, I used to have a Norman 12 string with a standard scale. This sounded pretty good tuned down with a D'addario medium 12 string set (12 - 56 I think).

[Nicolas Dussart]

Todd Cambio was planning to provide LaBella sets; see his post here
http://weeniecampbell.com/yabbse/index.php?amp;Itemid=114&topic=3378.msg25618#msg25618
you can contact him through his website : http://www.fraulini.com/

I bought my strings from fqms, they sell d'Addario single strings up to 0.070, but yo have to buy a package of 5 !
http://www.fqms.com/D_Addario_-_Bronze_Wound_Acous_C1328.cfm?Page=2
Elderly sells the GHS Leo Kottke 13-56 :
http://elderly.com/accessories/items/GLK12.htm

John Pearse has also a set of 13-56, but I wasn't able to find a seller... See
http://www.jpstrings.com/

Nicolas

[Slack]

Nicolas beat me to it -- La Bella makes a heavy set .14 - .68 - these are silk and steel, which are lower tension which might be a good idea to try first.

If Cambio is selling them, buy them from Todd, otherwise you can pick them up here:

http://juststrings.com/lab-710-12h.html

[Cambio]

I do have sets of strings which LaBella made to my specs.  They are in a limited supply, but I will be getting more in the future.  Here are the gauges:
course 1: .013/.013
course 2: .017/.017
course 3: .012/.026
course 4: .017/.038
course 5: .020/.048
course 6: .026/.066
I went with the octave third course figuring that most people would want to play McTell, especially now that he's such a hot topic with the new book and all.  If you want to play Leadbelly stuff, you just switch the octave on the 3rd course with the .026" on the 6th.  Then you'll have a unison on the third and a double octave on the 6th.
On a side note; some people don't like the concept of, or feel of, really heavy strings on low tuned 12 strings, and certainly some instruments can't sustain them, especially some of the old ones.  I personally think that they give the guitar a little more bark and try to build any new stuff to support them.  You really need to experiment and find out what works best for you.  If you don't tend to like heavy strings, a standard light or medium gauge 12 string set will certainly get the job done.

[leonard]

Thanks to all for the help!

[funguy]

I have played 12 string off and on for about 20 years and never tuned it down. What is the point and significance?

[bighollowtwang]

What is the point

The point would be to tune the way Blind Willie McTell or Leadbelly did...

and significance?

...and the significance would be that you're lower.