Topic: Kalamazoo K-12 Query

[Norfolk Slim]

Whilst attending my local guitar boutique to have a pickup fitted in my tricone, I rather fell in love with a 30's Kalamazoo K-12 they had recently brought in.  The action is quite high and they were talking about adjusting it.  When I retuned it and applied a glass slide- wow....  It sounds fantastic.

I really ought not to be spending money on guitars right now.  However, Im sorely tempted and thought I would engage the assistance of some weenie wisdom, particularl regarding the price.

It seemed to me to be, to say the least, expensive, at ?1295- does anyone know the going rate for this type of guitar?  Any comments about them?

[Parlor Picker]

Hi Slim,

Just listened to the beast in question on the Vintage Guitars website.  Sadly no pictures. Is it an archtop?  If a flattop, it would be KG-11, KG-14 or KGN-12.  The picture with my Weenie ID is my Kally KGN-12 (the N stands for natural top, as opposed to the usual sunburst).  If it's a KGN-12, the price is probably about right.  They were top of the range and (allegedly) superior to the KG-11 and 14.

You can always send a private message with your phone no if you want to discuss further.

[Slack]

A member is selling a KG-14 (see the member ads section) for $1000.  These were built by Gibson at a lower price point - so you have many of the same characteristics of a Gibson and that is why the price keeps climbing on the Kalamazoos. They all seem high to me -- but then I've been away from the vintage market for some time!  I'd say, if it speaks to you, buy it - you'll forget about the pain of buying soon enough! 

[uncle bud]

I dunno. That's $2,400 US for a Kalamazoo. The prices have certainly been going up on these, since you used to see them for hundreds not thousand(s) of dollars, just a couple years ago. I imagine the current insane prices on L-00's and the like have something to do with it. And the opinions that Robert Johnson played one. But that seems like a lot of coin to me.

[Slack]

I dunno. That's $2,400 US for a Kalamazoo.

Ouch, I should have checked the conversion -- I agree, that is too much... especially if it might need a neck reset. 

[Norfolk Slim]

Thanks for the comments chaps.

Parlorpicker- the guitar is a flat top, dark brown with a sunburst pattern.  Looks a good deal like my '46 stella from a distance.  And fairly similar to the K14 being sold by a weenie- but without any scratchplate.  The K-12 is the seller's designation- dunno how accurate it is.

The guitar just has such a wonderful sharp tone with a slide...  Not sure whether the clip on the site is slide or not- as I cant get it to work from the office.

My guitar savings account (which will just about cover it) is theorectically being commandeered by the new baby savings account.... 

So I need a darned good excuse!

[markm]

Never heard of a K-12 but I am no expert in Kalamazoos.

I have put together a web page  http://www.markmcdonaldblues.com/kalam.htm of the K-14 with pics and soundclips both slide and fingerstyle (all done with bare fingers, no thumbpick)

Maybe one can compare a "K-12" with a K-14, soundwise.

Mark

[Norfolk Slim]

Have to say it LOOKS an awful lot like a K-14 without a scratchplate!  If anything the sound is sharper and more piercing- but similar.  Looks like the shop has the model number wrong to me.

[Prof Scratchy]

The price on this does seem excessive, especially in view of the need for work on it. However I do know the feeling of finding an instrument that you really like, and it's very available - right now! The (boring) conclusion I've reached after some years' experience is that - unless your local guitar shop's selling a Euphonon requiring minor work for less than a thousand quid (in which case, spend the baby's money!), there will, in fact, be another one along in a minute, probably cheaper and in better condition. Try doing a saved search on ebay for your most coveted instrument, and you'll see what I mean.

[Parlor Picker]

Firstly, I must say I totally agree with Prof. Scratchy's comments.  Wise words indeed.

Regarding the guitar itself, we are narrowing it down to a KG-14 or KG-11.  If it's the same shape as a Gibson L series or indeed my Kalamazoo on the left, it's a KG-14.  If the upper bout is noticeably narrower than the lower bout, giving it a slightly odd shape (some would say), then it's a KG-11 - and if anything somewhat less desirable.

On reflection, I think the price should really be down around the ?700 mark or less.  Of course our American cousins forget about "Rip-off Britain" where everything seems to cost more than in the rest of the world, but our income doesn't match the prices.  Basically, you can generally take a dollar price and convert it directly to pounds for the price over here - even though the exchange rate dictates you should be halving the price.  Some guitar dealers over here try to make a case for not buying in the States, but even if you add shipping, insurance, VAT and import duty, you can still be better off.  Of course the big, big disadvantage is that you cannot try the guitar first.

[Rivers]

Ah yes but you have the NHS... 

[uncle bud]

Canada has medicare but our guitar prices aren't as high as the UK. 

I guess another thing to ask oneself is whether this guitar is to serve as a multipurpose axe or be more dedicated to slide playing. Slim said he loved the slide tone. I'd suggest that there are lots of wood beater-type guitars that could serve as mainly slide guitars that would cost much less, even in Britain I suspect. I quite love the sound of slide played on a wood guitar even though the trend these days may be to play it on a resonator.

[Norfolk Slim]

It would be a slide guitar for me (which would mean no adjustment needed to the action).  For non slide stuff I have my martin and stella.

I think (with gritted teeth) that this thing is just too expensive for what it is though and am going to have to leave it.

I agree that there are probably decent cheap wooden slide beaters out there- finding a nice small bodies one with as much tone is going to be the tricky bit.  :-)

Thanks for the comments folks- I think you all confirmed what I knew but didnt want to admit!

[natterjack]

I just came across this store on the web. They have a KG 14 for $995 and a KG 12 for $2150. The only external difference I can see is that the KG 12 has black binding instead of white. They says it's a sunburst version of the "Oriole", which I think had maple back and sides instead of mahogany(?).

[Parlor Picker]

Interesting stuff!

The KGN-12 was also known as the "Oriole" and usually had a logo of an oriole (bird) just under the Kalamazoo name on the headstock.  My example does not have the bird.  It is however a KGN and not a KG, as the initials apparently stand for "Kalamazoo" "Guitar" "Natural".  The natural finish was meant to imply a better class of instrument than the normal ones, as there was no sunburst finish to hide any imperfections in the wood.  Also, this better model featured the shape of a Gibson headstock and not the plainer styles of the earlier Kalamazoos.

And yes, the 12s are maple back and sides, not mahogany.  Interestingly, mine has a one-piece back, which is actually laminated.  A luthier told me that the old Gibsons with a one-piece back also feature laminate.

I understand the KGN-12 was introduced as a top-of-the-range model in 1940 and ran to 1942, mainly because the other Kalamazoo models were doing so well in different outlets to the mainstream Gibson shops.

Whatever the case, mine is a great fingerpicking blues guitar and sounds great with a set of Newtone strings (12 - 52).  I bought it from Willie Salomon, who is an expert on Gibsons and last time he played it he wanted it back!  I'm hanging onto her at the moment.

[Arlo]

Hi, new here, happened onto this thread while googling kalamazoo guitars. I also have a kgn-12, oriole model.  from my research I have believe the oriole was supposed to be a step up from the kg 14.  It was made from 1940 - 42, and the headstock was like a gibson instead of a straight or slant cut.  Bought mine in 1993 at Elderly Insruments for $165.00.  I know I could get a lot for it now, but I will never part with it.  Looking forward to checking out the forum and site here.

[Rivers]

Welcome to weenie campbell Arlo.

[Parlor Picker]

Welcome Arlo.  You certainly got a bargain with your KGN-12.

A couple of months ago, Roy Book Binder played my example and in fact used it on stage at a local gig.  He said he had never seen a Kalamazoo in such good condition and when I asked him about current value, he estimated around $2500 as it is so clean.  Willie Salomon, from whom I bought the instrument, thought (rightly I reckon) the guitar had probably been in a case under somebody's bed for years.  Hence the original machines were not rusty and the body was not full of dust and dirt.

I like the contrast of the Gibson firestripe pickguard and tortoiseshell binding with the natural body, but I have to admit I really like the look of the sunburst models.  Anyone got a nice L-00 they want to donate??