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Author Topic: Scott Dunbar Tuning (+ Ear-training + Software) Help!  (Read 5424 times)

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Offline NotRevGDavis

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Scott Dunbar Tuning (+ Ear-training + Software) Help!
« on: November 16, 2004, 09:30:36 PM »
I haven't quite figured out how to distinguish between tunings and I would like to try and transcribe some Scott Dunbar stuff so... can anyone tell me what tuning he is using on the tunes that are on "From Lake Mary"?

And ... since I brought it up, what is the best way to train your ear to hear the subtle differences between standard and open/dropped tunings. I'm fine if someone tells me what tuning to use and can cheat a little if I watch someone fingering chords while they play but beyond that I get lost when I'm listening to a recording.
 
Does anyone use any software that slows down recordings but maintains pitch.

Thanks in advance,
Gary
« Last Edit: February 19, 2006, 03:10:56 PM by Johnm »
Got the name, still workin' on the licks!

Offline waxwing

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Re: Scott Dunbar Tuning (+ Ear Training and Software) Help!
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2004, 10:10:51 PM »
Hey Gary,

Second question: Check out John Miller's first lesson of a series on recognizing guitar keys and tunings (aughta be a new one out soon?). I believe further lessons will focus on alternate tunings. John teaches this very well.

Third question: I use Transcribe! and really like it. The graphic display makes for easy navigation and selection of section to be worked on. EQ and Spectrum Analysis are very helpful in hearing the notes. Great sound quality, too, and it will read all kinds of formats. And it's shareware, so you can check it out for 30 days before you have to pay for it.

Sorry I can't help you with Scott Dunbar.

All for now.
John C.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2004, 10:12:09 PM by waxwing »
"People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it."
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Offline Johnm

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Re: Scott Dunbar Tuning (+ Ear Training and Software) Help!
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2004, 08:18:58 AM »
Hi all,
Thanks for the good word, John C, yes, I plan on doing another ear-training lesson in early December, when I think things are going to open up for me a little bit.  I hope to do a song lesson, too, since it has been a while since I did one. 
Re the Scott Dunbar, Gary, if you can post an mp3 of it, I'm sure there are many people here who could help you out with the key/position he uses to play "From Lake Mary".  Or maybe there is somebody out there who has the CD and knows the tune . . . .
All best,
Johnm

Offline frankie

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Re: Scott Dunbar Tuning (+ Ear Training and Software) Help!
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2004, 09:34:21 AM »
I haven't quite figured out how to distinguish between tunings and I would like to try and transcribe some Scott Dunbar stuff so... can anyone tell me what tuning he is using on the tunes that are on "From Lake Mary"?

I requested a few tunes on the juke and here are the notes I made.? Got distracted during Goodnight Irene, so I'll have to hear that one again:

Blue Yodel - Standard, key of G

Easy Rider - Standard, key of C - This sounds like a weird twist of a typical rag progression.? Instead of playing the standard A-D-G-C, he walks from the C note down to the A note (5th string open) and then immediately plays the D chord, making the progression more like D-D-G-C.

Forty-Four - Standard, key of D - could conceivably be dropped D, but I didn't hear a low D.? Basically a one-chord piece with loads of interplay between the voice and guitar.? I like the way he holds certain notes or repeats riffs here and there, making his phrases irregular.

Edited to add:? I don't have a guitar handy and no way to check his actual pitch, so he may be tuned higher or lower than A=440, so you might have to re-tune a bit to play along with him.

Offline Slack

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Re: Scott Dunbar Tuning (+ Ear Training and Software) Help!
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2004, 06:21:36 PM »
Gary, which one are you working on? - all of them at once?  :D

One of the keys to figuring stuff out by ear is listen to the bass.  I listened to the first cut on that CD "Who been foolin' You" and in the one chord I hear an octave bass  - so that reduces the possibilities to E standard, open D (or open E - same interval) or Drop D.  Just from the sound of the guitar it sounds like he is in an open tuning (the strings have lots of sustain or 'ring' and an 'airy' sound). So I put my guitar in Open D and capoed around until I got close to his pitch - he is not tuned to A=440 so I adjusted another half step to match pretty close.  He goes to the IV chord briefly and it sounds like a straight across bar at the 5th fret (relative)... just brushes.  The treble riffs work, are easy to play - so I'm satisfied it is Open D or E. 

'Course my ear has played big time tricks on me in the past... so I'll upload it so folks can keep me honest.

cheers,

[attachment deleted by admin]

Offline NotRevGDavis

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Re: Scott Dunbar Tuning (+ Ear Training and Software) Help!
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2004, 04:24:58 PM »
Hey everyone THANKS! Busy couple of weeks. Now I have something to work on all winter.

Gary, which one are you working on? - all of them at once? :D
I wish!
Got the name, still workin' on the licks!

Offline Johnm

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Re: Scott Dunbar Tuning (+ Ear Training and Software) Help!
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2006, 01:18:59 PM »
Hi all,
I realized, Gary, that your query as to the keys/positions of the songs on Scott Dunbar's "From Lake Mary" CD never was answered.  I finally got the CD from Red Lick yesterday and have been enjoying it.  Anyhow, keys/positions for the songs on the CD work out as follows:
   * "Who's Been Foolin' You"--G, standard tuning
   * "Little Liza Jane"--G, standard tuning
   * "Memphis Mail"--Vastapol at C#.  Man, what a beautiful tune!
   * "Vicksburg Blues"--G, standard tuning, at F, a whole step low
   * "Fourty-Four Blues"--D, standard tuning, a little low
   * "That's Alright Mama"--G, standard tuning, at F
   * "Easy Rider"--C, standard tuning.  A great version, very unusual
   * "Richard Daley Blues"--E, standard tuning, at D, a little low
   * "Sweet Mama Rollin' Stone"--G, standard tuning, a little low
   * "Blue Yodel"--G, standard tuning, at F, a little low
   * "Goodnight Irene"-  G, standard tuning, at F, a little low
This is really a nice CD (on Fat Possum, originally released on LP on Ahura Mazda).  I like Scott Dunbar's singing and he has a wonderful infectious laugh.  His guitar is amazing sounding, too.  I don't think I have ever heard a guitar that sounded better played out of the G position.  Have fun with the tunes, Gary.
All best,
Johnm
« Last Edit: February 18, 2006, 05:37:16 PM by Johnm »

Offline Bunker Hill

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Re: Scott Dunbar Tuning (+ Ear Training and Software) Help!
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2006, 02:25:35 AM »
   * "Memphis Mail"--Vastapol at C#.  Man, what a beautiful tune!
It is indeed and one that has always bugged me as I know it from elsewhere, but where?  Dunbar first recorded it for Fred Ramsay on 24 June 1954.
(I only own the LP. Do the CD notes state why FP chose not to include any other of the 48 songs recorded in February, April and August 1970? I can't believe they are all not suitable for release.)

Offline Johnm

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Re: Scott Dunbar Tuning (+ Ear Training and Software) Help!
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2006, 10:27:04 AM »
Hi Bunker Hill,
The CD notes on the Fat Possum re-issue of "From Lake Mary", I believe are the same as the original notes on Ahura Mazda, and make no reference to other unissued recordings of his music.  What you say of forty additional tunes being recorded is very tantalizing, for there is enough variety in the eleven songs included on the CD to suggest that Scott Dunbar had a lot more to offer.  I don't know how the current whereabouts of the unissued tracks could be determined, but the persons cited on the disc who might be a place to start are Richard B. Allen, curator, Archive of New Orleans Jazz at Tulane University, and Karl Michael Wolfe, who wrote the liner notes.
All best,
Johnm

Offline Bunker Hill

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Re: Scott Dunbar Tuning (+ Ear Training and Software) Help!
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2006, 10:45:51 AM »
Hi Bunker Hill,
The CD notes on the Fat Possum re-issue of "From Lake Mary", I believe are the same as the original notes on Ahura Mazda, and make no reference to other unissued recordings of his music.  What you say of forty additional tunes being recorded is very tantalizing, for there is enough variety in the eleven songs included on the CD to suggest that Scott Dunbar had a lot more to offer.  I don't know how the current whereabouts of the unissued tracks could be determined, but the persons cited on the disc who might be a place to start are Richard B. Allen, curator, Archive of New Orleans Jazz at Tulane University, and Karl Michael Wolfe, who wrote the liner notes.
In 1970 Dunbar got musch coverage in the two UK blues mags. Parker Dinkins sent Blues Unlimited a lengthy interview which was serialised over two issues and Karl Michael Wolfe had published in Blues World a three part essay. For information here follows his discography, songs Dinkins recorded do seem to have been  repeated at different sessions:

V/g.            Old River Lake, Ms, 24 Jun 1954

Memphis mail    Fkws LP 654, 2654

V/g with Celeste Dunbar, v -1; Rosie Dunbar, v -2/dancing -1; G with Joe Tucker, dancing -3.     Pond, Ms, 25 Jun 1954

Forty four      Fkws LP 654, 2654
Easy rider -1    Fkws LP 654, 2654
Buck dance -3    Fkws LP 654, 2654
Goin? back to Vicksburg -2    Fkws LP 2659

(All above recorded by Fredrick Ramsay Jr)

V/g.            Lake Mary, Ms,        1968

Big fat momma   Saydisc/Matchbox(E) LP 226
It?s so cold up North   Saydisc/Matchbox(E) LP 226
Jay bird   Saydisc/Matchbox(E) LP 226

(above recorded by Bill Ferris)

V/g.            Lake Mary, Ms, 27 Feb 1970

Tell me who been foolin? you   Ahura Mazda LP 1
Little Liza Jane   Ahura Mazda LP 1
Sweet Mama Rollin? Stone   Ahura mazda LP 1
You are my sunshine   unissued
Wabash Cannonball   unissued
Forty-four blues   Ahura Mazda LP 1
When the Saints go marching in   unissued
Easy rider   Ahura Mazda LP 1
Done laid down (Do remember me)   unissued
Filipena   unissued
Home sweet home   unissued
Just because   unissued
Never been so blue   unissued
Goodnight Irene   unissued
Goodbye my lady Cindy   unissued
My old shoe   unissued
Sally Good?n   unissued
Buffalo gal   unissued
Nobody?s darlin? but mine   unissued
Richard Daley blues   Ahura Mazda LP 1
Memphis mail   unissued
Vicksburg blues   unissued
Say that?s alright with you   unissued
Filipena   unissued
Baby please don?t go   unissued
That?s alright mama   unissued
Have mercy on my soul   unissued
Tennessee waltz   unissued
Careless love   unissued
Blue heaven   unissued
Lay that pistol down (Pistol   packin? mama) unissued
Blue yodel   Ahura Mazda LP 1
untitled instrumental   unissued

V/g.            Lake Mary, Ms, 19 Apr 1970

Wabash Cannonball   unissued
Who?s been foolin you   unissued
Sally Good?n   unissued
Goodnight Irene   Ahura Mazda LP 1
You are my sunshine   unissued
Memphis mail   Ahura Mazda LP 1
Vicksburg blues   Ahura Mazda LP 1
That?s alright mama   Ahura Mazda LP 1
Want to see my darlin?   unissued
Little Liza Jane   unissued
Hand   unissued
Jaybird   unissued
Baby please don?t go   unissued
Lay that pistol down   unissued
Just because   unissued
Filipena   unissued
Have mercy on my soul   unissued
Done laid around   unissued

V/g.            Lake Mary, Ms, 6 Aug 1970

You don?t know my mind   unissued
Want to see my darlin?   unissued
44 blues   unissued
Richard Daley blues   unissued
Hymn   unissued
Who been foolin? you   unissued
Beautiful brown eyes   unissued
Memphis mail   unissued
(All foregoing recorded by Parker Dinkins)

Offline Johnm

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Re: Scott Dunbar Tuning (+ Ear Training and Software) Help!
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2006, 12:01:59 PM »
Wow, thanks for sharing that tune list, Bunker Hill!  It appears that in selecting the tunes for release on the Ahura Mazda album, Dunbar's material that hewed closer to the Blues was favored and that the more pre-Blues, Country and Old Time tunes, like "Sally Goodin", went under-represented, particularly relative to the percentage they appeared to comprise of his repertoire, a clear majority.  In this regard, Scott Dunbar's repertoire looks like it almost incidentally included some Blues, sort of like the repertoire of the present-day Maryland songster Warner Williams.  This is not to say that Dunbar's blues material isn't convincing--it's great, but rather that it looks like Blues wasn't even necessarily a specialty for him.  For me, the list of tunes that have gone unreleased becomes even more fascinating, bearing that in mind.
All best,
Johnm

Offline Bunker Hill

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Re: Scott Dunbar Tuning (+ Ear Training and Software) Help!
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2006, 12:42:12 PM »
This is not to say that Dunbar's blues material isn't convincing--it's great, but rather that it looks like Blues wasn't even necessarily a specialty for him. 
True, I'm sure.

When Ramsay came across him in 1954 he was first and foremost a fisherman who just happened to play guitar and sing. Ramsay observed that:

"Scott Dunbar is a fisherman and guide. He is also a natural musician who has played all his life and listened all his life. Scott can be persuaded to touch up his guitar and play a few tunes while clients wait for his word that fish are biting. He dissembles his knowledge of anything but popular music. Perhaps because many older songs are too rough for visitors, he never sings about Sweet Mama Rollin' Stone unless asked by someone who knows him and his songs.....When the white folks have gone, the guitar takes up the older and franker strains of music. These have been passed on to Scott by outlaws roaming the levee backwaters, by escaped convicts (Old River Lake is just around the bend from Angola, the Louisiana State Penitentiary), by singers and players and wanderers now long dead." [pps.124-125 Been Here And Gone]

A decade and a half later I suspect that Parker Dinkins only saw the market for Scott's music as the blues one, and made his selection accordingly. A further decade and a half on and I bet a "compilation" would be different yet again. What's now acceptable to fans as "blues" has changed out of all recognition. Who knows, possibly even his rendition of My Blue Heaven ;D

Offline NotRevGDavis

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Re: Scott Dunbar Tuning (+ Ear-training + Software) Help!
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2006, 08:39:42 AM »
Thanks John!

I really like that particular CD. It reminds me a bit of Robert Pete Williams because of Scott Dunbars unique style AND all of the background noises (I bet that screen door had some miles on it). He sounds like he was having a lot of fun.

And thanks Bunker Hill. I hope those recordings are stored somewhere and will be released some day.
Got the name, still workin' on the licks!

 


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