Topic: Prewar Stellas

[ryan]

Hey everyone, I'm new to the board so I've been reading your old posts getting familiar with y'all ( I feel like the ghost of message board's past the last few days).  I saw a few of you writing about the "Stella" guitar.  What is the story on these as from the pic the one I saw looked pretty sharp.  Also, since I'm probably one of the youngest on the board it is cool reading stories of people who have actually talked to and have seen some of these artists perform.  I look forward chatting with you guys/gals

Ryan

[Cambio]

Hi Ryan,
Stella was a brand name for guitars made by the Oscar Schmidt Company from about 1900 to 1935.  For the most part they were cheap guitars, made quickly with cheap materials.  They did produce some real gems though, Leadbelly's 12 string is the prime example.  Stellas are similiar to most cheap guitars of the day, they are all ladder braced (rather than X braced like 99.95% of guitars out there today), they used gaudy decals to simulate inlays, but Stella had some things that seperated them, primarily a rather radically arched back.  I have come to believe that there were a few luthiers there who really knew their stuff, probably trained in Italy, a whole bunch of people who didn't know much, and a boss breathing down their backs telling them to hurry up and insisting on cutting corners.  Some of the Stellas out there sound great and some of them are duds like lots of other guitars.  Quotes by people like H.C. Spier and Son House have made them a sort of Holy Grail for Country Blues fans everywhere so the prices have gone up considerably in the past five years.  In my opinion, it is very difficult and sometimes immposible to tell, from photographs, if some of the old players have Stellas or not.  For a while it seemed to have been a generic name for a cheap guitar.
If you want to learn more about Stellas and see some more examples of some of the guitars that they made, check out www.stellaguitars.com.
Sorry if my view seems a little pessimistic to folks out there.  It has been formed from working on lots of old cheap guitars and seeing what they're made of.

[ryan]

Thanks for the reply.  I checked out the website and it was interesting reading up on them.  Where do you work on guitars at?

Take care,
Ryan

[frankie]

Todd's too modest to say so, but he's restored a lot of older guitars and builds some extraordinary instruments.? You can check out his webite:

Fraulini Guitars






[fixed the link]

[jed]

Great web site, Todd.  Rare elegance.  Educational and informative, to the point (and a point well-taken, according to everything I've read here).  I look forward to meeting you, personally and/or through your work.

Cheers,
Jed

[Cambio]

Aw shucks. 
Ryan, I work out of a 1 car garage, which I converted into a well insulated, climate controlled, well lit  shop in Madison Wisconsin.  It's a small space but much bigger than others I have worked out of.

[Slack]

Yeah!  Glad you pointed out the site Frank.

Todd, I did not realize you were doing this full time - good for you, I'm jealous!    Do you market by word of mouth and festivals only?  You would be a very popular fellow at Port Townsend.

I like your hide glue, french polish and philosophic approach - very similar to mine (I'm just now starting to use hide glue for some things). I'm still adding to me email questions.    Maybe frankie will give us a sound sample some time. 

Cheers,
slack

[uncle bud]

Todd's Fraulini website has been in the Links section for awhile. Perhaps we should make little Links announcements when adding them. I'll try and remember to do that.

I agree that he would be a big hit at Port Townsend! And we'd all be poorer...    I'm looking forward to a sound sample from Frankie!

[Cambio]

Yeah, just word of mouth right now.  I made the switch to building full time in May of this year.  I was getting too many requests for new or restored guitars to fullfill working after hours and on the weekends  so I thought that I'd give it a shot.  It's been nice to dedicate all of my time to the instruments, and Lord knows, I don't miss working for the Man.  I really don't miss that.  Really really.
So far it's going pretty well.  I have enough work to keep me busy and to pay the bills.   At this point I'm trying to focus on building rather than marketing.  I hate to flap at the mouth without something to back it up.
Franks guitar is a real sweetheart.  It was my personal twelve for about a year and a half, so I did a lot of fussing over it until it sounded just right.  I was a little sad to see it go, but judging from the look on his face, Kim and the kids were going to have a really long ride home if they didn't take that guitar with them.  I did what I could to spare them any agony.   
I'm looking forward to what he comes up with too.

[ryan]

Hey Todd, Nice work.  I always enjoy hearing people pursuing things they enjoy to do.  Amen for not working for the man!!  You mentioned Alvin Youngblood Hart on your site.  A funny story, a number of years ago I passed along his cd to an artist named Ben Harper.  The next year he ended up opening up for Ben.....
Well, Wisconsin is a long ways from Seattle but I'll make sure I tell my customers to check out your website.  keep up the beautiful work. 
P.s.  There is an artist named Willy Porter from Wisconsin who is a pretty fine 12 string player.
He might not be a bad person to get one of your guitars into his hands.  Take care
http://www.willyporter.com/willy_flash.html

[Orb Mellon]

Hi all,

I'm looking for opinions on Prewar Oscar Schmidt guitars i.e Stellas and the like. I'm curious what opinions folks might have as to ones from the 20s vs. the later 30s ones. Are the 20s versions typically better quality for the same basic guitar or are they pretty consistent into the depression?

Thanks.

OM

[Slack]

Tough questions that probably don't have an answer.  Stellas were low end, cheap materials for the time and high production, so I am sure the quality would be variable.  I think I would ask Neil Harpe - with a grain of salt, keeping in mind that he is in the business of selling vintage Stellas.

[Parlor Picker]

I agree with the comments above about inconsistent quality and that Neil Harpe is the man to approach.  His book about Stella guitars with its CD of various Stellas being played is to be recommended as well.

I think it's very much a case of taste and try before you buy - which sort of rules out eBay and the like.

It is also worth looking out for lesser-known brands from the same era.  My Lyon & Healy Columbus has an amazing tone, but your average Joe wouldn't know one of those from a plastic kid's guitar.  It is possible to pick up a bargain, even if you do take a risk of buying online when the price is not too high.

Whatever, you're better placed where you are than us poor Brits for finding interesting vintage (and new) guitars.

[waxwing]

Here's a link to Neil's book for sale on his site. And if you wanted to travel down to Annapolis you could visit him and check out his current stock. Very nice guy and great player, too. It is a real education to play and hear a handful of these guitars at one sitting. Also, Neil can tell you lots of stories of the Washington branch of the "Blues Mafia". Stops in here from time to time.

Many of the guitars were hand built by other immigrants who would pick up parts at the factory in Jersey City and build the guitars in their apartments in NYC, so you can imagine there is a great deal of variability. Also they were made from many different types of wood.

Oscar Schmidt died in the early to mid '30s and the company was bought by Harmony around '36, I believe, and the quality definitely changed after that.

I think it is commonly thought that the guitars were best in the '20s and that production was more difficult leading into the Depression.

All for now.
John C.

[bighollowtwang]

Why specifically Stellas?
There are lots of great ladder-braced pre-WWII acoustics out there and most of 'em aren't as expensive as the Oscar Schmidt stuff. So far I have yet to encounter an Oscar Schmidt guitar that sounds quite as good as my Lyon & Healy or Stromberg-Voisenet guitars.
I would worry less about 20s vs 30s (I think '36-'39 were the "iffy" years - Harmony hadn't bought 'em out yet but things were definitely already headed for cheapsville) and decide on what type of guitar you want.
I loosely group them into a few different categories which all have their own distinct sound:

• birch top/birch body/pin bridge
• birch top/birch body/floating bridge & tailpiece
• spruce top/birch body/pin bridge
• spruce top/birch body/floating bridge & tailpiece
• everything else

This is definitely not a "rule" but I've found that guitars with floating bridges and tailpieces usually sound better when played with fingerpicks. If you're a bare-finger player, you might want to make sure the guitar produces a tone and volume you're satisfied without fingerpicks.  I also find them to be better for slide than pin bridge guitars, but that's a personal preference.

On that note...anyone want to buy an Oscar Schmidt First Hawaiian Conservatory guitar?

[Prof Scratchy]

On that note...anyone want to buy an Oscar Schmidt First Hawaiian Conservatory guitar?

If I didn't already have one I'd be first in the queue! I have 3 OS stella 6 strings and the First Hawaiian, whilst the worst in terms of  workmanship and finish, is by far the loudest and throatiest and best!

[onewent]

..agree w/ much that's been said here ..the 20's vintage Stellas appear to be better made re materials, and many of the players who recorded on 78's reportedly used them, so they have 'that' sound and cachet, but, as was mentioned, I find it a crap shoot sometimes, because, it's not only the sound, but the basic playability and intonation that can vary from guitar to guitar, and I'll lump all brands of bottom end guitars into that catagory. 
I personally prefer the spruce top, pin bridge (hard wood bridge, not the stained pearwood w/ a piece of fretwire), hardwood fingerboard (again, not stained pear wood) combination.

Actually, for slide, most sound above and beyond what one would expect, fretted is a different story.. .. the fun part is the hunt! 

I have a ton of them in my basement awaiting repair, so, as soon as I get this retirement thing down, and get to fixing them, they'll be seeing the light of day again..  here's a link to one of them..(my first 'real' neck set success story)

http://www.gbase.com/Stores/Gear/GearDetails.aspx?Item=1793458
.. Regards, Tom

[Orb Mellon]

Thanks everybody for the perspective and resources.

The only reason I ask about the Oscar Schmidts is because I have yet to physically play one. I'm quite familiar with the other brands and makers. FWIW, I'm a reasonably experienced dumpster diving ladder player, I use a Cromwell (well that is a Gibson I guess) and a $43.00 on Ebay Harmony Stella from the 50s (which I actually like a lot).   

Oscar Schmidts, believe it or not, aren't that easy to come by, at least here around NYC.  Sometimes it's like they shipped them all out west and the Chicago builders all shipped East. I'm really seeking any experiences with general quality variables in the event that one day I see one on the internet and decide to buy it without demoing, who knows, maybe even from Zak . 

Anyway Zak, very nice playing!!  When are you going to come south and play some shows maybe with Brownbird and me?

[bighollowtwang]

When are you going to come south and play some shows maybe with Brownbird and me?

I would love to do that. We need to work that out sometime...
Rudy's CD gets a LOT of play around here!

As for Stella guitars, I don't think there's any real "mystique" to them, 10th fret dot markers or angled heel caps don't make 'em sound better than equivalent models from other makers of that era. You can find some really great deals on older ladder-braced guitars with less 'name recognition' - I am still looking for that Stella which will sound as good as my $100 B&J Serenader.

[Cambio]

Bighollowtwang is right, there is nothing special about Oscar Schmidt six strings that makes them sound better or play louder than other guitars from the same era.  The workmanship on some of them is God awful as are the materials they used.  That's not to say that they didn't make some great guitars, they certainly did,  but their mystique has been overblown in the past few years.  They are not exceptionally rare, after all, they were products of one of the biggest musical instrument factories in the world.  Now that the prices for them have gone up, they are starting to get flushed out of people's closets, attics and basements.
As for the argument that all the Blues players played Stellas, Patton isn't playing a Stella in the photo of him, neither is Lemon, Blake might be but it's hard to tell.  There was a Japanese guy that did some analysis of the photo of Blake and he thought he was playing a Chicago made guitar.  I have Dick Justice's guitar and it's a Supertone.
If you're looking for an old guitar, I'd recommend one from the 20's or 30's, when they were still hand built and still using hide glue.  You can get a lot more guitar if you go for one of the Chicago guitars instead of an OS.  I'd also buy one "as is" and have a local luthier fix it up.  I've seen ones that people have paid dealers fairly high prices, which still needed a bit of work.

[Slack]

Congrats to our own Todd Cambio!  Not only can he make guitars, he can write!  And knows how to drill sheet metal! 

Great article by Todd on re-creating Leadbelly's 12 string in the Spring '08 issue of The Fretboard Journal.  An excellent quarterly that just keeps getting better.  If you have not checked the publication out -- this is as good excuse as any.

The website does not have the current issue up yet: http://fretboardjournal.com/

Current issue is on their blog however: http://www.fretboardjournal.com/blog/