Topic: Miller's Breakdown

[Old Man Ned]

I'm hearing this out of E, standard tuning, but tuned a bit low. The I chord in the first few seconds, to me, sounds like it's played out of an E chord and when he goes up the neck at around 50 seconds too.

I've not discounted cross note tuning but feel more confident about E standard at the moment. The passage between 11:14 I'm hearing out of this shape on the top 3 strings:
0
8
6

All the best,
Ned

[David Kaatz]

I agree with Old Man Ned, E position, standard tuning.
I suspected that position/tuning when I heard the slide up the 6th string and then playing the open 5th string A for the root of the IV chord, at about 0:21.
The passage at :11, I think he is playing
0
8 and bending this note up somewhat
on the top two strings, plus the open 6th string. Not sure if I hear another string in there.

[Prof Scratchy]

Agree with Ned and David on key. For me the seventh note at .02 got me thinking that, although the same note would?ve sounded in crossnote or Vestapol I suppose. The adjacent hammered on bass run is typical in E, but again available in crossnote.....In short, I?m not at all sure where E standard emerges as the definitive position, but I look forward to finding out! At .11 I think open 1st str played against bent 8fr of 2nd str with open 6str in bass.


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[Johnm]

Any other takers for the Lattie Murrell puzzler?  Come one, come all!
All best,
Johnm

[Floridablues]

Newcomer to this. E standard dropped to C#. I tried open D but it didn't seem right. Of course that could be lack of knowledge of the little licks that tuning provides. The run and this a heavy guess top strings E and B third and fifth frets sliding into them. Look forward to learning from everyone. Thanks!

[waxwing]

I always listen to these, but my old ears are usually too slow for it not to be frustrating to work them out at speed. This one seemed slow enough so I gave a closer listen.

Right away I could tell that it was in the "E family", i.e. Standard at E, Vastapol, Crossnote and EAEGBE. I remembered that you had done a rundown of how to suss out this a few songs back, Johnm, so I went back and read it (page 126 in my browser). As everyone else noted, at 0.21 he clearly plays the IV note on the open 5 string so that ruled out Vastapol and Crossnote. I didn't have a chance to work with a guitar til today, but when I did I noticed him playing the lick Scratchy mentioned at 0.02, but I felt that could be played 4th string Open to 5th string 5th fret in EAEGBE relatively easily. But then right after playing the open 5th string for the IV he plays a hammer that would be from Open 4th string to 2nd fret in Standard, and it would be hard to continue the lick if this were done up high on the 5th string, ruling out EAEGBE. So E Standard somewhere sharp of C#.

And you do like those high fretted notes played against the open 1st string, Johnm.

Wax

[blueshome]

Took my guitar that was in Vasterpol and thought it was near but not quite so I settled for cross note on the basis that it worked to my yin ears.

[Forgetful Jones]

Hello all-
- I think it's in E position, standard tuning, a few steps down low
- I figured it was standard tuning when he went to the A on the open 5th string at :21. Can't do that in Vestapol
- The passage at :11 reminds me of a Charley Patton's Green River. Is Lattie Murrell bending the 8th fret of the 2nd string and playing an open 1st? Thumb playing open 6th string. He could also bend the 12th fret of the 3rd string, I guess.

[Dom94]

Hi,
I'm hearing this out of E, but I m pretty sure it s played in Vestapol tuned one step low

the earliest point is at the begining when he plays the main riff

[banjochris]

E standard for sure -- don't have anything to add to how Wax explained it!
Chris

[Johnm]

Hi all,
The Lattie Murrell puzzler on "Blues For Mattie Mae" has been up for a while, and the last response was two days ago, so I will post the answers.  Thanks to all who responded--it really deepens the discussion, so it's nice to have a lot of people participating.

For Lattie Murrell's "Blues For Mattie Mae":
   * His playing position/tuning was E position in standard tuning.
   * I couldn't with absolute certainty at this point identify the playing position as E position in standard tuning, but at the :03 mark, Lattie Murrell plays a double rolled hammer from the flat VII to the major VII up to I.  I was pretty sure he was in E position, standard tuning at that point, subject to it possibly being disproved later on.  This double rolled hammer is right under the left hand in E standard, with the open fourth string the flat VII, the major VII at the first fret of the fourth string, easily hammered by the index finger and the I note at the second fret of the fourth string, easily hammered by the second finger.  The  same double rolled hammer could be played in Vestapol or cross-note, in terms of the pitches, moving from the third fret to the fifth fret on the fifth string, though I have never heard a player in the style utilize that move in either of those tunings.  Similarly, the double rolled hammer could be played in EAEGBE tuning from the fifth to the seventh fret on the fifth string, an even more implausible scenario.  At :14--:16 he plays an ascending bass run from a bIII note on the sixth string third fret to a grace note hammer, from IV to V on the fifth string, from open to the second fret, concluding with a grace note hammer from bVII to I on the fourth string, from the open string to the second fret.  That IV note he hits on the fifth string in the course of that run eliminates Vestapol and cross-note as candidates, and the hammer on the fourth string eliminates EAEGBE as a possibility once and for all.
   * Lattie Murrell played the passage from :11--:14 exactly as a number of you identified it, hitting the open sixth string while brushing the open first string and the bent eighth fret of the second string in the treble.  You're right, Wax, I like that sound, both for its own sake, but also because it is such a distinctive sound, getting the lower note in pitch on a higher string played open, that it is a really helpful device to be able to recognize, every time you hear it.

Thanks to all who participated.  It was great to see how different people sussed out the puzzler.  I will look for another to post soon.
All best,
Johnm

[Johnm]

Hi all,
I have a new puzzler for those of you who are interested.  It is "Bad Night Blues", as performed by Mott Willis.  Here it is:



The questions on "Bad Night Blues" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did Mott Willis use to play the song?
   * Where is Mott Willis fretting the two bends he plays at :06--:07, and where does he fret the note he harmonizes with the bends?
   * Where is he fretting the chord he plays at 1:02--1:03?

Please use only your ears and your instruments to arrive at your answers, and please don't post any answers before 8:00 AM your time on Monday, October 1.  Thanks for your participation, and I hope you enjoy "Bad Night Blues".
All best,
Johnm

[Johnm]

Hi all,
Any takers on the Mott Willis puzzler?  Come one, come all!
All best,
Johnm

[blueshome]

Here we go with tin ear again.
I put the song in G standard, tuned sharp or capoed.
I hear the bend at 3rd fret 3rd string played against the open 2nd string, presumably using an unwound 3rd to get the bend easily.
At 1:02 he plays a D partial from 3rd position

[banjochris]

He's in C position, standard tuning; sounds like he's tuned quite low. Have to listen with a guitar in hand to get the rest.
Chris