Topic: Slide Guitar Classes & Lap-Style

[orvillej]

hey all you weenies. i have a couple of questions about this summer's wkshop and i thought this forum might provide a good group to survey. i'm teaching the beg./int. slide class and, in chatting with peteMcC, discussed the idea of a lap-style slide class. so, my two questions are:

1. in the slide class i will deal with basic technique issues, some playing in standard tuning and some in open tunings. are there any particular pieces that folks would be interested in? and, remember, this is pitched toward beg./int. level so keep that in mind when suggesting.

2. are there enough people interested in lap-style to constitute a class? i've had good success over the past few years at IGS, mike dowling's camp, and the CA coast camp with classes ranging from 4 to11 or 12 students. how many among you might be interested in such a thing? i'd probably focus on basic blues technique, mostly in open G tuning, and consider pieces by folks like oscar woods, casey bill weldon, and some modern players who blur the lines between blues, bluegrass, ethnic, etc.

thanx for considering these questions and see you in PT.

[NotRevGDavis]

First of all thanks for teaching the slide class and for asking for suggestions. One song that I would like to learn if it is appropriate for the skill levels would be "Dark Was the Night (Cold Was the Ground) " by Blind Willie Johnson; others would be most anything by Mississippi Fred McDowell.
Gary

[uncle bud]

Boy, a class on Oscar Woods and Casey Bill sounds great. Alas, I won't have a guitar with me suitable for lap style. Perhaps a last minute nut extension (painful as that sounds...). Hmm. Not that I can play lap. But I've always meant to try.

[waxwing]

I saw Alvin Hart convert his Triolian for lap playing on stage. He took what looked like a plastic (or maybe ivory?) chop stick and stuck it under the strings at the second fret, so that, with the guitar lying in his lap, the chop stick stuck out away from him. Then he put a capo behind it at the first fret, I guess to keep the strings from moving around. I imagine the tip of the chop stick was carved to make a bridge-like point of contact with the strings, with no slots like a nut. I think I've also seen Mary F. do a similar trick. Could get you into that class, UB.

Orville, your return to PT (since before I started coming 3 years ago) has made me wonder if this is the year I start playing slide. I tried it for a month shortly after I started playing again 4 years ago, but found it so addictive I decided I had better work on my fretting and picking only for the time being. Don't really have any favorites, but whatever excites you to teach will go down alright with me. I saw Scott Ainsley demoing a little of how Honeyboy played in standard on his Robert Johnson video and that was very intriguing, as I've also limited my playing, so far, to mostly standard tuning. I look forward to it.

All for now.
John C.

[Richard]

Hey, go for it, lap styles rules 

[uncle bud]

Isaw Alvi Hart convert his Triolian for lap playing on stage. He took what looked like a plastic (or maybe ivory?) chop stick and stuck it under the strings at the second fret, so that, with the guitar lying in his lap, the chop stick stuck out away from him. Then he put a capo behind it at the first fret, I guess to keep the strings from moving around. I imagine the tip of the chop stick was carved to make a bridge-like point of contact with the strings, with no slots like a nut. I think I've also seen Mary F. do a similar trick. Could get you into that class, UB.

Thanks, wax. Will give my chopsticks a try. Usually I use a fork at home even when cooking Asian food, so the sticks may finally get some use!

[waxwing]

Yeah, UB, I realized that this actually does several things to the dynamic of the guitar. First of all, it shortens the scale to somewhere in the 23" range, similar to an actual lap steel. Secondly, it greatly increases the mass of the head beyond the "nut" which should have some effect on the tone/volume/sustain characteristics, overcoming any loss due to the plastic chop stick. AYH is no slouch when it comes to guitar mechanics.
All for now.
John C.

[orvillej]

i don't think it would be any problem using a regular guitar with a nut-raiser. you can get them at the music store for 3-5 bucks and they raise the strings enough for lap playing. you also need to get a bar and i would recommend a Dunlop 925 model, similar in shape and size to a stevens-type bar. i use the Dunlop and my way of playing works better with that than the bulletend bars. i also recommend using fingerpicks. i use the propiks with two wraps which are less painful and easier to adjust to fit your finger than some other types.

[Lwoodblues]

1. Isn't the other workshop the same time as PTCBW?
  2. Glad to have you back and am looling foreward to your instruction.
  3. Bought a set of Ebony (hard, hard wood) chopsticks at Pike Place market a few years back
     and cut one down to just raise the strings enough. Capo behind it. also a brass square tube that
     is available at model/hobby stores with it bisected through its center works good also.
  4. Thanks for the reccommendation on the slides.

   lwoodblues

[Lwoodblues]

Also, second the Willie Johnson material.
  lwood

[orvillej]

just bumping this back up to see if there are more slide suggestions or feedback on a lap-style class

[Rivers]

Lap style does, indeed, rule. Orville, if I'm there I will bring my Hula Blues squareneck. This is extremely 'iffy' though since we're selling our house and pushing visa / work permission applications as we speak, pending relocating from NZ to TX

Personally I'm into Casey Bill and Sol Hoopii, like the jazz-hawaiian tinge. CBW's 'You Shouldn't Do That' would be a good one w/backup guitar, eh? I like those novelty numbers actually, remind me of the soundtrack to early Mickey Mouse B&W cartoons. Patton's Bo' Weevil is extremely weird, Alvin does a good job on it.

I think lap steel lends itself to rule-breaking, take a piece everyone knows and arrange it lap style and you've basically got a new song. I guess Kelly Joe Phelps makes a speciality of that with Fred McDowell and Willie Johnson tunes, like him or not, I don't mind it sometimes but find it does tend to degenerate into waffle at times.

[Buzz]

Just saw this thread, so will pipe in now 
Orville, a slide and lap-style class sunds very intriguing to me. I will reconsider bringing my National Duolian for  lap use too. If I drive up, can bring it, but if I fly, will not lug it, since I want to bring my mando and amp for it.Without the NAtional, I would try the chopstick and capo gizmo, on a  guitar from a generous Weenie who will let me borrow it for the class--Alex, are you listening  , cuz the RJ re-issue might sound very nice with a chopstick !

I will be open to learning any beg/int tunes you feel have worked well at other teaching venues.Thanks for offering the class. This year will be great: del Grosso and mando tunes, jug band, John M 's great classes, and Orville on slide. Not to mention Del and Steve, and all the others...Yeow!

Buzz (miller)

[thumbstyle]

Hi Orville,

I'll chime in late (with pinky harmonics?) to say I'd be interested in a lap class too. Never had much interest in playing bottleneck style, but for some reason lap grabs me. I'd also be interested in your thoughts on G tuning vs Dobro tuning for a beginner.

Thanks,
Dave

[orvillej]

thumbstyle, i recommend the GBDGBD (low to high) tuning. i think it works better for playing with other people. the DGDGBD tuning works well for solo pieces if that's more what you intend to pursue cuz of the root and fifth in a nice position to supply a bass line.
i think in the class i'll mostly teach in that tuning and maybe spend some time on open D (DADF#AD). those are the two most common lap-style tunings.

[thumbstyle]

Thanks, Orville, sounds like good advice. I'll look forward to that class of yours.

Dave

[Flatd7]

Orville - I'll be heading out to GYMC this year. Unfortunately I'll miss IGS (although I plan to come up and see friends). I'm hoping to bring a squareneck out to Yellowstone since I never got mine to Seattle.

Question - I have a utilitarian Regal RD-75. It's not great shakes but gets the job done. I mostly play in GBDGBD. I've got lot's of slide knowledge in open D & G. But, when I try to tune my Regal in Open D, there doesn't seem to be enough pressure on the cone. It becomes rattle city. Is there a trick to this? What gauges should I use? I'm somewhat baffled. I've got an old Trojan roundneck that Don Young put a high nut on. I use that for D, but I can't bring a guitar for every tuning!

Cheers. See you at Columbia.

Jon Vesey

[orvillej]

jon, i think i'll be teaching mostly in GBDGBD at the yellowstone camp. if we do some stuff in D we'll all be rattling a little. i don't usually retune the same dobro for those tunings for just that reason. something you might try is tuning it to E, same intervals as D but a step higher. that will put more pressure on the cone. you might have to use a lighter first string, altho i use a .16 and can get it up to E.
see you in NY and wyoming...oj

[daveh222]

I'm looking forward to your Bottleneck class. I hope you don't ditch it in favor of lapstyle - I'm sure BOTH would be greatly appreciated. As for songs, Hard Time Killing Floor would be a neat variation, and a slide version of See See Rider would be nice. Otherwise, any standard open G and D tunes would be cool. I like listening to David Kampmann's versions of any slide tune on his soundclick site. Here is the link:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/6/davidkampmann_music.htm

thanks!
dave

[orvillej]

i'm definately doing the bottleneck slide class. it's pitched towards beg/int players and i'll spend the first couple of days in standard tuning before we get to any open tuning stuff. still not sure of the level of interest in a lap style class so i think i'll have a meeting the first day and see if i should do a class for the whole week or just a couple of workshops. i'm ready for both eventualities so let's have some fun! see you all in a few weeks.