Topic: Miller's Breakdown

[Old Man Ned]

Starting in reverse order:
Roosevelt Antrim's "Station Boy Blues" is in C, standard tuning.
Bull City Red's "Pick and Shovel Blues" is in A, standard tuning but it sounds a half step high to me, making it played out of Bb
John Bray's "Trench Blues" I found quite tricky.  He has such a commanding voice that I found it difficult to focus on much of the guitar part.  I'm going with a D position but played up at the 9th fret (making it an A chord).  I'm also thinking he may have a capo as high as the 7th fret and if he does and he is playing in A, then I'm guessing he's lowered the top string down from E to D.  So, Dropped D tuning (capo at 7th) playing out of a D position.  My only rationale for this is the couple of notes he plays around the 8 sec mark, an A and C# (sounds like to me) and that I could pick out the melody of his vocals out of this position.

Look forward to hearing what other folks are getting for the John Bray.

[Pan]

Hi all

Here are my guesses for the playing positions.

What playing position/tuning did John Bray use to play "Trench Blues?"

Sounds to me, like maybe E-position, standard tuning, capoed up to sound somewhere between G# and A. I seem to hear the open E chord form for the I chord. It then has the open 1st string changed to the 2nd and then the 4th frets, to the Major 3rd of the chord. This would be somewhat hard to do on the open position, but maybe not so hard capoed higher up on the neck, where the distance between the frets is smaller.

What position/tuning did Bull City Red use to play "Pick and Shovel Blues?"

I?m going to suggest A position standard tuning, tuned  or capoed up about a half-step. The various forms of A chord shapes seem to be there for the I chord, and the walkdown in the end of the verses sounds like an A position thing to me.

What position/tuning did Roosevelt Antrim use to play "Station Boy Blues"?

I?ll say C position in standard tuning. The chords sound like it, the little bend from the minor to major 3rd from the 2nd fret 4th fret also. I think the high G note on the 3rd fret of the 1st string, added on the F chord is characteristic also.

Cheers

Pan

[Prof Scratchy]

Trench  Blues sounds like E capoed at the fifth fret. For Pick and Shovel I'm going to say G capoed at the third fret. And for Station Boy Blues, C standard.

[Johnm]

Hi all,
Thanks to Old Man Ned, Pan and Prof Scratchy for the responses on the three tunes.  The identifications for the songs are as follows:
   * For John Bray's "Trench Blues", the playing position is E position in standard tuning, capoed up a ways.  The fact that the guitar was capoed up so high made John Bray's way of playing his E chord, with his little finger fretting the fourth fret of the first string a plausible reach.  D position, as Old Man Ned had it, likewise puts the third of the playing position on the first string, but it has a much closer interval to the next lower string, from the third down to the root, than what John Bray is playing--Bray skips the next lower root and goes down to the fifth below, which in this instance, is the open second string.  I think Bray's unusual fingering for his home E chord and the fact that he avoids the V chord make this a tougher identification than it might otherwise be.  I sure like his singing.
   * "Bull City Red's "Pick and Shovel Blues" is in G position in standard tuning, as Prof. Scratchy had it.  Differentiating between A position and G position in East Coast blues like this one can be tricky, because the G position and the long A chord voice out exactly the same on the top four strings, so that a final identification often rests on details you hear along the way or the difference in how the IV and V chords sound in the different positions.  Since Bull City Red pretty much avoids the IV chord, you miss out on one of the best ways to decide between the two positions. 
There are some details that point to G position right from the start.  He plays a descending run near the beginning and at about :03 or :04 brushes a flat 3rd and a major 3rd on the second and third strings.  In G position, those intervals would be at the third fret of the third string and the open second string--in A position, they'd live at the fifth fret of the third string and the second fret of the second string, not impossible to play, but awkward.  Around :23-:25, Red brushes a slide up into the 3rd of the I chord on the third string and the 5th of the I chord on the second string while also brushing a VI note on the first string.  In G position, those three notes would live at 4-3-0 on the first three strings, from third to first string.  In A position, they would live at 5-6-2 on the same strings, an implausible position, especially with the two lower strings sliding into position while the first string remains constant, as it does here.
   * Roosevelt Antrim's "Station Boy Blues" was played in C position, standard tuning, as all three of you identified it. 

Thanks to you all for participating and congratulations to Prof Scratchy for making all three identifications correctly.  I'll post another puzzler soon.

All best,
Johnm 

[Johnm]

Hi all,
I've been trying to transcribe the lyrics of the songs in this thread as we go along.  I've gotten just about all of Roosevelt Antrim's "Station Boy Blues", back just a few posts at http://weeniecampbell.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=10188.msg89414#msg89414 , and I'd very much appreciate help with the bent bracketed passages in the third verse.  Thanks for any help with those.
All best,
Johnm

[ScottN]

Hi John,

A complete WAG re: the lyrics "don't mark dinner down to me / for me."  No guess on the second part.

Thanks,
            Scott

[Johnm]

Thanks for the help, Scott.  I think "don't mark dinner down to me" matches what Roosevelt Antrim sings, right on the money.  I've made the change.  Thanks!
All best,
Johnm

[Johnm]

Hi all,
I have a new puzzler for you.  It's unusual in that it is an instrumental, "Baton Rouge Rag", as played by Joe Harris.  I know nothing about Harris except that this was apparently recorded by John Lomax in Louisiana.  Harris has four other titles up on youtube, I believe, and none of them are anything like this one.  It is such a beautiful conception, and beautiful playing, too.  I'm sort of surprised it isn't famous, at least in the world of Country Blues.  Here it is:



The questions on "Baton Rouge Rag" are:
   * What playing position/tuning did Joe Harris use to play the song?  (You may have to listen a little ways into the tune to determine this.)
   * Where are the three chord positions that he opens his performance with, from :00--:03, :03--:06, and :06--:09 fretted, and how would you name each one of those chords?

Please use only your ears, instrument and experience in arriving at your answers, and please don't post any answers until Tuesday morning, October 21.  Thanks for participating.

All best,
Johnm

[Johnm]

Hi all,
I have been trying to figure out the lyrics to John Bray's "Trench Blues", a few posts back at:  http://weeniecampbell.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=10188.msg89414#msg89414 , and I would very much appreciate help with the bent bracketed places in the lyrics.  It's a strong set of lyrics and there are not all that many songs that deal with African-American soldiers' wartime experiences.  Thanks for any help.
All best,
Johnm

[banjochris]

Hi all,
I have been trying to figure out the lyrics t John Bray's "Trench Blues", a few posts back at:  http://weeniecampbell.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=10188.msg89414#msg89414 , and I would very much appreciate help with the bent bracketed places in the lyrics.  It's a strong set of lyrics and there are not all that many songs that deal with African-American soldiers' wartime experiences.  Thanks for any help.

A few suggestions, John. This was transcribed in the Library of Congress Bicentennial set, and they have gaps in a lot of the same places. Very hard to decipher. Here's a couple of things from them and me:

7.1 Last old word I heard old Kaiser say

9.1 The Berlin women holler ?Non comprends?
holler in next two lines also

11.1 , big bell sadly tone
(sounds almost like "Weep long")

12.1 ? this is what the LoC had: Called him in the morning, chased him in the night
12.2,3 - LoC has Americans right

[Batson]

4.1 : Montsec Hill

[dj]

I have been trying to figure out the lyrics t John Bray's "Trench Blues"

I transcribed the lyrics a few years back in the "John Bray lyrics" thread:  http://weeniecampbell.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=8359.0.  I think they're mostly right.

[Johnm]

Thanks very much for the help, Chris, Batson and dj.  It had completely slipped my mind that you had previously transcribed these lyrics, dj.  I think I will post a link to your transcription in the post where I have John Bray's performance of the song.  You certainly caught a lot that I had missed.  Thanks so much.
All best,
Johnm

[banjochris]

I transcribed the lyrics a few years back in the "John Bray lyrics" thread:  http://weeniecampbell.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=8359.0.  I think they're mostly right.

Excellent!

[Johnm]

Hi all,
Any takers for the puzzler on Joe Harris' recording of "Baton Rouge Rag"?  If you've not had a chance to listen to it yet, you can find it at http://weeniecampbell.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=10188.msg89459#msg89459 , on the previous page of this thread.  Come one, come all, give it a shot!
All best,
Johnm