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Country Blues => Super Electrical Recordings! => Topic started by: JakobGreen on November 08, 2012, 06:26:26 PM

Title: Story of Paramount Records - Thirdman / Revenant Records
Post by: JakobGreen on November 08, 2012, 06:26:26 PM
Has anyone heard anything about Dean revamping Revenant Records? Saw a article on The Wire website They are coming out with a Paramount Records set.
Title: Re: Revenant Records- Paramount Records Set
Post by: jostber on November 12, 2012, 10:34:20 AM
Have not heard about it, but it would be great news! :)
Title: Re: Revenant Records- Paramount Records Set
Post by: jostber on December 03, 2012, 07:09:11 AM
Some nice pictures over here:

http://revenantrecords.tumblr.com (http://revenantrecords.tumblr.com)

A Paramount set is coming up:

http://www.thewire.co.uk/news/19219/revenant-records-returns-with-paramount-records-set (http://www.thewire.co.uk/news/19219/revenant-records-returns-with-paramount-records-set)

Title: Re: Revenant Records- Paramount Records Set
Post by: jostber on January 22, 2013, 04:49:04 AM
Anyone heard more on the new Paramount set?

http://www.tinymixtapes.com/news/john-faheys-revenant-label-starting-up-production-again-expect-a-bitter-turf-war-with-dust-to-d (http://www.tinymixtapes.com/news/john-faheys-revenant-label-starting-up-production-again-expect-a-bitter-turf-war-with-dust-to-d)

Title: Story of Paramount Records-thirdman records
Post by: orvillej on September 12, 2013, 06:14:51 PM
Have you heard about this? It looks incredible.

http://thirdmanrecords.com/paramount-home (http://thirdmanrecords.com/paramount-home)
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records-thirdman records
Post by: Rivers on September 12, 2013, 06:40:13 PM
Oh wow, I know what I want for Christmas  8)
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records-thirdman records
Post by: Tom Mylet on September 13, 2013, 09:25:22 AM
Holy Mackrel! I need to start saving now...any idea of the price?

Tom Mylet
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records-thirdman records
Post by: Stuart on September 13, 2013, 09:27:25 AM
Thanks for the heads up, Orville. It does look incredible.

I downloaded the PDF files last evening and browsed through them. Definitely worth a look if you have time, although the Field Manual is 326 mb and took a while. Not that you couldn't do it yourself, but as a convenience, here are the direct links:

http://thirdmanrecords.com/paramount/pdf/TrackList.pdf (http://thirdmanrecords.com/paramount/pdf/TrackList.pdf)

http://thirdmanrecords.com/paramount/pdf/LPTrackList.pdf (http://thirdmanrecords.com/paramount/pdf/LPTrackList.pdf)

http://thirdmanrecords.com/paramount/pdf/ArtBook.pdf (http://thirdmanrecords.com/paramount/pdf/ArtBook.pdf)

http://thirdmanrecords.com/paramount/pdf/ParamountFieldManual.pdf (http://thirdmanrecords.com/paramount/pdf/ParamountFieldManual.pdf)

Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records-thirdman records
Post by: orvillej on September 13, 2013, 09:34:15 AM
Thanx for the linx. Did you notice any references to source material or who/where regarding the remastering?
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records-thirdman records
Post by: Stuart on September 13, 2013, 09:39:33 AM
Edited  to revise/add:

On PDF page 124 (actual page 246 under "Credits") of the Art Book it says:

Analog-To-Digital Remastering & Sound Program Design: Christopher C. King, Long Gone Sound Productions

Digital Mastering & Audio Restoration: David Glasser, Anna Frick at Airshow, Boulder, CO

Track Selection and Programming: Dean Blackwood, with Jack White, Christopher King & Alex van der Tuuk

*************************************************************************

Hi Orville:

No, I didn't, but I haven't had a chance to go through everything. There's about 500 pages of material and it's going to take a while for me to wade though it all. I assume that remastering info would be included in the package, but maybe not in the available downloads. I'll have to wait until I read through it to be sure.
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records-thirdman records
Post by: dj on September 13, 2013, 10:13:41 AM
I checked the pdf booklets too and didn't see anything about remastering.  There are sample songs on the paramount-home page that Orville originally posted.  They sound ok - one certainly couldn't complain about the overuse of noise reduction software!

For what it's worth, the version of Track Linin' by the T.C.I. Section Crew is not taken from the same record as the version on Document's Sinners And Saints CD.

This looks like a package I would love to have, though my knees start to tremble when I think of the probable price!
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records-thirdman records
Post by: Stuart on September 13, 2013, 10:27:27 AM
Hi dj:

I did a cross post to the PWBG and in it asked if anyone knew about pricing. Some of the PWBG members were involved with the project so maybe they'll know.

I think the question most of us are asking ourselves is: "How expensive--and can I afford it?" Obviously, it appears to be among the "must haves" given the work that went into it, but at the same time we still have to pay the rent and eat.
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records-thirdman records
Post by: Johnm on September 13, 2013, 10:37:07 AM
Hi all,
I looked at the track listing, and most of the stuff that i would most want to hear I already have elsewhere.  There is some Old-Time stuff that looks tantalizing, but not enough for me to justify purchasing it, especially since I am relatively less interested in the historical information on Paramount.
All best,
Johnm
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records-thirdman records
Post by: eric on September 13, 2013, 11:13:34 AM
As reformed 78 collector/obsessive, I read lots of obscure stuff about Paramount.  The main takeaway for me was how a hapless manufacturer of cheap furniture in Wisconsin managed to record some the greatest blues music of all time, almost completely by accident.  For that we can all be grateful.

John is of course correct that the music is already pretty much available, but the very attractive packaging and the Jack White imprimatur will probably draw in a new audience of listeners and critics.
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records-thirdman records
Post by: bnemerov on September 13, 2013, 03:00:40 PM
Eric is probably right about drawing in a new audience, though where the twenty-thirty-somethings who think Jack White hung the moon will get the money is anyone's guess.
And note this is the 1st of a two item set.

There is no price made public yet that I can find. Might have to drive up to the 3rd Man place on the day to see what they're going for.
Alex's 2003 book of the same name (from which most all graphics and photos in this set come) is selling for $500.00+ on the used market.

On a more scholarly note: In reading the text of the "red book" I was disappointed by Blackwood's (not Dean, but his novelist brother) writing about the cultural context of the music. Minstrelsy is given a rudimentary, and in some cases mistaken, treatment. The same can be said about the other "chapters" of the book. The writing style, however, is very slick and breezy. He's very good that way.

In any case, it seems to me that here's another product that takes more care with the package than its content. Do I really want to spend (probably) serious money on a quarter-sawn oak box with velour lining and a book of photoshopped graphics and elementary-level essays in order to have the same old music? To quote that deep thinker Dave Marsh, "Why is it we celebrate the milkman and not the milk?"
best,
bruce
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records-thirdman records
Post by: Stuart on September 13, 2013, 04:08:19 PM
Alex's 2003 book of the same name (from which most all graphics and photos in this set come) is selling for $500.00+ on the used market.

There's a revised edition available for $39.00:

http://www.mainspringpress.com/book_paramount.html (http://www.mainspringpress.com/book_paramount.html)

http://www.mainspringpress.com/book_catalog.html (http://www.mainspringpress.com/book_catalog.html)


I agree with much of what you and John have to say. However, while the music is also of primary interest for me, nothing happens in a vacuum. Thus I have an interest history, background, and context. And there's always the "custodian of culture" aspect as well. Still, it's not for everybody, so to each his or her own.

The bottom line is still  going to be the  bottom line $$. As attractive as the contents may be, I don't need to overspend for designer or boutique packaging. We'll wait and see what they want for it.

Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records-thirdman records
Post by: bnemerov on September 13, 2013, 05:06:50 PM
Right, Stuart. I agree.
However the history, background and context are more thoroughly and accurately given other places.
Though not all in one place. And certainly not in oak & velour.... ;)
best,
bruce
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records-thirdman records
Post by: orvillej on September 13, 2013, 05:14:23 PM
The main thing I'd like to know about is if there's been any effort to find good sources and improve the sound quality over what's been available. I have a lot of the music already as well.
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records-thirdman records
Post by: bnemerov on September 13, 2013, 07:59:25 PM
Hi Orville,
A tough question to answer without buying the set. Listening to the sample tracks at the link you 1st provided will give a rough indication, I guess.
Look on page 248 of the book PDF where the contributors of recordings are listed and what jumps out---for me at least---is the absence of several names....people who have the best collections of Paramounts. One of them even posts here sometime.
best,
bruce
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records-thirdman records
Post by: Stuart on September 13, 2013, 08:31:23 PM
Hi Bruce:

I read  Alex's book years ago when it came out--and have been following what's available on the web and in print re: Paramount as it appears. But other than a quick browse through, I haven't had a chance to go through the PDFs in any detail. My guess is that if anyone had the time to trace all of the sources, they would conclude that most of what is in there is derivative and available elsewhere. But I still have a wait and see attitude with respect to the package as a whole as there can always be surprises and even a reorganization of pre-existing material and info can have its strengths and be appealing.

One thing that raises a few questions is the inclusion of LPs and a USB drive with music tracks and images in the set. I understand it from a marketing POV, but there's a disconnect in there somewhere--for me, anyway. I guess the digital format is to enable a PP or slideshow coordinated with the music. But if the tracks haven't been adequately remastered, then that's a minus for serious listeners. And if the LPs have been sourced from the best 78s, that's one thing, but if they're just digital copies on vinyl, then what's the point other than a marketing gimmick to attract the retro minded crowd?

But to be fair, I think we''ll just have to wait until the package has been released and we see and hear it in person (and it passes through a rigorous review process) before we really know for sure. I sincerely hope that it really does turn out to be incredible rather than something that causes us to think about "What could have been." We'll see.



Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records-thirdman records
Post by: Rivers on September 13, 2013, 10:53:47 PM
Exactly, there's no point in being on the bleeding edge, wait and get the reviews.
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records-thirdman records
Post by: Johnm on September 14, 2013, 03:54:33 PM
Hi all,
Perhaps the best way to finesse the issue of cost is to try to wangle a review copy out of thirdman records with a promise to review the product for _______________ publication/website.
All best,
Johnm
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records-thirdman records
Post by: Rivers on September 14, 2013, 11:51:43 PM
Well we certainly would review it and likely stick it on the front page if it lives up to the best expectations, right? Nothing to lose and no harm in asking. I'm happy to go into wangling mode unless someone else beats me to it.
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records-thirdman records
Post by: Frank_Scott on September 16, 2013, 01:35:20 PM
On the Facebook Real Blues Group, Scott Barretta posted that the recordings on the flash drive are going to be in mp3 format. I find this disconcerting since use of flac lossless files would not require a very large flash drive. It also seems that if they are not able to use the resources of people like John Tefteller or Rich Nevins they are not going to have access to the best available copies for remastering - assuming they are remastering from original sources and not just cleaning up old Document reissues.
Title: The Rise and Fall of Paramount Records vol. 1
Post by: mdf on September 24, 2013, 04:18:13 PM
This may be old news but...

http://www.nashvillescene.com/nashvillecream/archives/2013/09/24/the-damnedest-collection-youve-ever-seen-third-man-and-revenants-paramount-records-tribute-coming-nov-19 (http://www.nashvillescene.com/nashvillecream/archives/2013/09/24/the-damnedest-collection-youve-ever-seen-third-man-and-revenants-paramount-records-tribute-coming-nov-19)

MDF
Title: Re: The Rise and Fall of Paramount Records vol. 1
Post by: Stuart on September 24, 2013, 05:20:44 PM
Everything but the $400 price.
Title: Re: The Rise and Fall of Paramount Records vol. 1
Post by: tinpanallygurl on September 25, 2013, 07:14:08 PM
Well this is definitely not for a gurl on a college budget.  In a few years maybe   :'(
Title: Re: The Rise and Fall of Paramount Records vol. 1
Post by: jrn on September 25, 2013, 07:21:31 PM
Yeah it's cool and all, but way outta my beer and bologna budget. Ain't even got a dog in that race.
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records-thirdman records
Post by: Rivers on September 27, 2013, 04:29:06 PM
I merged the recent thread with the earlier discussion.
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records-thirdman records
Post by: rubin lopez on October 15, 2013, 12:52:19 AM
Thanks for the heads up, Orville. It does look incredible.

I downloaded the PDF files last evening and browsed through them. Definitely worth a look if you have time, although the Field Manual is 326 mb and took a while. Not that you couldn't do it yourself, but as a convenience, here are the direct links:

http://thirdmanrecords.com/paramount/pdf/TrackList.pdf (http://thirdmanrecords.com/paramount/pdf/TrackList.pdf)

http://thirdmanrecords.com/paramount/pdf/LPTrackList.pdf (http://thirdmanrecords.com/paramount/pdf/LPTrackList.pdf)

http://thirdmanrecords.com/paramount/pdf/ArtBook.pdf (http://thirdmanrecords.com/paramount/pdf/ArtBook.pdf)

http://thirdmanrecords.com/paramount/pdf/ParamountFieldManual.pdf (http://thirdmanrecords.com/paramount/pdf/ParamountFieldManual.pdf)
Hello Stuart,can i ask you how have you manage to get those PDF's?
i'm trying :'(
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records-thirdman records
Post by: Stuart on October 15, 2013, 09:20:05 AM
Hello Stuart,can i ask you how have you manage to get those PDF's?
i'm trying :'(

Hi Rubin:

When the set was first announced, the files were readily available through embedded links on Third Man's info page. A couple of weeks later that all changed. I haven't tried to set up an account and log in, so I don't know if doing so would give you access. They may still be available if one has an account, but I just don't know if that's the case.
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records-thirdman records
Post by: jpeters609 on October 15, 2013, 11:07:46 AM
I suspect the Third Man/Revenant brain trust may have realized that posting PDF's of the set's entire contents was tantamount to giving away the goods, at least as far as the printed materials are concerned. It wouldn't surprise me if those PDF's are gone for good. After all, there needs to be something for people to spend their hard-earned 400 bucks on, besides the flash drive and the box.
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records-thirdman records
Post by: rubin lopez on October 16, 2013, 01:21:03 AM
I suspect the Third Man/Revenant brain trust may have realized that posting PDF's of the set's entire contents was tantamount to giving away the goods, at least as far as the printed materials are concerned. It wouldn't surprise me if those PDF's are gone for good. After all, there needs to be something for people to spend their hard-earned 400 bucks on, besides the flash drive and the box.
I guess you are right,but after reading the credits(those who could)
are we sure the flash drive is full of mp3's or not?
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records-thirdman records
Post by: DanceGypsy on October 16, 2013, 08:17:10 AM
Sigh.  I am the exact kind of person who swoons and falls for this kind of a thing.  Bye-bye, four hundred bucks; my wife will be thrilled.  I'll let you all know if it was worth it at the end of the month.

By the way, Amazon has it available for pre-order for $474.54

http://www.amazon.com/Rise-Fall-Paramount-Records-Volume/dp/B00FKMSN7A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1381937174&sr=8-1&keywords=THE+RISE+%26+FALL+OF+PARAMOUNT+RECORDS (http://www.amazon.com/Rise-Fall-Paramount-Records-Volume/dp/B00FKMSN7A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1381937174&sr=8-1&keywords=THE+RISE+%26+FALL+OF+PARAMOUNT+RECORDS)

It will be available at Third Man on October 29, then on Amazon and worldwide on November 19.
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records-thirdman records
Post by: rubin lopez on October 16, 2013, 10:07:18 AM
Bad news from the horses mouth:

I just received a mail from THIRD MAN RECORDS.
the digital files are MP3.
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records-thirdman records
Post by: rubin lopez on October 22, 2013, 01:37:08 PM
Hi all,
I looked at the track listing, and most of the stuff that i would most want to hear I already have elsewhere.  There is some Old-Time stuff that looks tantalizing, but not enough for me to justify purchasing it, especially since I am relatively less interested in the historical information on Paramount.
All best,
Johnm
HELLO Johnm,is it possible to post the track list?
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records-thirdman records
Post by: Stuart on October 22, 2013, 01:59:23 PM
Attached

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records-thirdman records
Post by: rubin lopez on October 22, 2013, 11:19:53 PM
Attached
Thank you very much. :)
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records-thirdman records
Post by: Parlor Picker on November 07, 2013, 04:00:50 AM
Interesting initial response from the Fretboard Journal:

http://www.fretboardjournal.com/blog/rise-and-fall-paramount-1917-1932-volume-1-unboxing (http://www.fretboardjournal.com/blog/rise-and-fall-paramount-1917-1932-volume-1-unboxing)
Title: Re: Revenant Records- Paramount Records Set
Post by: Chris A on December 09, 2013, 05:49:01 PM
I received the set in the mail yesterday and I am still trying to catch my breath! It is beautiful and loaded with great music, even film clips.

-800 newly-remastered digital tracks on a forged metal USB drive shaped like a Victrola stylus
-200+ fully-restored original ads and images
-6 x 180g LPs w/ hand-engraved metal leaf center labels on burled chestnut vinyl
-Deluxe large-format hardcover art book: 250 pages, narrative with full-color plates
-Encyclopedia-style reference manual: 360 pages, field guide to artists & repertoire
-Handcrafted elements: rich woods, lush upholstery, and custom-forged metal hardware
-Track & Image App: First-of-its-kind music and image player app, allows user management of 800 tracks and 200+ original ads, housed on custom-made USB.

I took some photos and threw them together this evening, but they really don't do this set justice.

(https://weeniecampbell.com/yabbse/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi82.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj275%2FNurdley%2FParamountboxcollage_edited-1.jpg&hash=a2ace976edefc61678fc8862997b464be85e398e)

Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records-thirdman records
Post by: Chris A on December 09, 2013, 05:58:14 PM
Bad news from the horses mouth:

I just received a mail from THIRD MAN RECORDS.
the digital files are MP3.

If you are familiar with Paramount's original audio quality, the fact that the files are MP3's should make no difference to you. I received my box yesterday and the quality is better or equal to any I have heard from original Paramount 78s or other reissues (remember the Riversides???)

Here's a montage I just made to give you a glimpse of this incredible set. That needle-holding diaphragm in the lower right corner is the USB stick:
(https://weeniecampbell.com/yabbse/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi82.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj275%2FNurdley%2FParamountboxcollage_edited-1.jpg&hash=a2ace976edefc61678fc8862997b464be85e398e)
Title: Re: Revenant Records- Paramount Records Set
Post by: Rivers on December 09, 2013, 05:58:34 PM
Are we sure this is on Revenant? Looks uncannily like the Third Man set discussed here: http://weeniecampbell.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=9672.0 (http://weeniecampbell.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=9672.0)

Could be a turf war?
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records-thirdman records
Post by: Rivers on December 09, 2013, 06:01:17 PM
Revenant or Third Man? The collateral items look identical to me. Thread merge coming up I predict.
Title: Re: Revenant Records- Paramount Records Set
Post by: Tom Rushen on December 10, 2013, 04:17:12 AM
Are we sure this is on Revenant? Looks uncannily like the Third Man set discussed here: http://weeniecampbell.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=9672.0 (http://weeniecampbell.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=9672.0)

Could be a turf war?

Not a turf war, it's the same set.

Revenant and Third Man are partners on this set.
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records - Thirdman / Revenant Records
Post by: Rivers on December 11, 2013, 11:21:32 AM
Merged.
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records - Thirdman / Revenant Records
Post by: Stuart on December 27, 2013, 12:43:29 AM
Jack White and Dean Blackwood were on Charlie Rose this evening (Thursday) talking about the set and Paramount. If it's not available as a re-broadcast in your area, it should be available on the CR site in a couple of days.

They came off as a couple of sincere  guys who want to tell Paramount's story and get the music out there. JW said something to the effect that Charley Patton was the source or basis of almost all modern music. That might be overstating the case a bit, but if it gets a few more people to listen to Charley, so much the better.
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records - Thirdman / Revenant Records
Post by: Tom Rushen on December 27, 2013, 11:52:19 AM
Sincere they may be, but they still need to answer for their failure to secure the licenses needed from George Buck/his estate. I'll bet Charlie Rose didn't bother to do his homework and ask them about that matter. 60 minutes of softball questions to sell a luxury, big ticket item. Sad and pathetic.
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records - Thirdman / Revenant Records
Post by: Stuart on December 27, 2013, 12:37:30 PM
The operative words in my post are "came off as." Most of us here can do critical evaluation with the best of them, but unless we're in a position really put the hammer down, all we can do is post and discuss. I just watch this stuff for informational purposes and maybe a few leads. A grain of salt and all that goes with it. I'm not buying the set.

I doubt that hard nosed investigative reporting is ever going to see the light of day in the mainstream media when it comes to royalties, etc., from obscure old music. Around here we know what goes on--and what did go on--is/was unfair and unjust, but actually being able to do something about it by finding the effective and tangible next step that yields real world results is another matter. I'm not in a position to do a complete and thorough audit of Third Man and/or Revenant and their principals--and hold their feet to the fire if I uncover something wrong. 

Believe me when I say that I had a few thoughts when watching the CR segment. I just put up the original post with my  impressions as an FYI so others could watch the segment if they so choose.

Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records - Thirdman / Revenant Records
Post by: Tom Rushen on December 27, 2013, 01:50:15 PM
Stuart, my post was not critical of you, merely an observation from me about the Rose interview. I agree with your thoughts in reply to me....sorry if you thought I was critical of you...

It's one thing for any of us to look back on the blatant theft of music and exploitation of musicians from 80 years ago....but watching deep pockets market a luxury item that they didn't license, right in front of our eyes, and engage in a slick PR campaign designed to win themselves a Grammy? That's a tough thing to swallow.
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records - Thirdman / Revenant Records
Post by: bnemerov on December 27, 2013, 06:27:35 PM
Hi gang,
Just home from a week away to find that this discussion has taken another surprising turn.
The Rose interview can be viewed on the BloombergBusinessweek site.
http://www.businessweek.com/videos/2013-12-27/paramount-records-charlie-rose-12-27 (http://www.businessweek.com/videos/2013-12-27/paramount-records-charlie-rose-12-27)

Mr. Rushen has it right, for my money.
Dean Blackwood is a friend and has been generous in the past, so I give him a pass---he's circumspect in his claims.

But Jack White is pig-ignorant about the history of the musicians and race recording in general. Ma Rainey was hardly an unknown when she recorded for Pm and Mayo Williams' nickname wasn't given for his ability to get contracts signed.....I mean, really; what BS!

These are only two examples and only in the 1st six minutes.
Narcissism unleashed.

best,
bruce
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records - Thirdman / Revenant Records
Post by: Rivers on December 27, 2013, 06:41:48 PM
Remind me Bruce, I'm having a senior moment, Mayo Williams' nickname was?
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records - Thirdman / Revenant Records
Post by: bnemerov on December 27, 2013, 07:15:28 PM
It was "Ink," Rivers---

and to clarify: My endorsement of Tom Rushen's last post was of his ethical distress with this project.
I share an ethical distress, but mine is not about the legal/financial aspects.

Paramount is what's considered an "orphan" company and phono-copyrights (the one that protects an artist and his label) don't apply. The only copyrights that need licensure are song copyrights (the one that protects the composer; under current copyright law, only songs written and filed with the copyright office after 1923 are covered).
[Copyright law was written by Franz Kafka....even copyright lawyers don't understand it]

Legally securing songs is what Ralph Peer was so savvy about.

"Ink" Williams? Maybe not.

In any case, I think Dean Blackwood would have seen to the necessary legalities with respect to the songs. The artists, (because Paramount was abandoned in the 1930s), are out in the cold unfortunately. The John Steiner purchase of Paramount (and subsequent Buck "ownership") didn't include any copyrights.

best,
bruce
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records - Thirdman / Revenant Records
Post by: Bunker Hill on December 28, 2013, 12:32:15 AM
As an aside back in 1972 Jim O'Neal interviewed J. Mayo Williams extensively. I seem to recall Jim supplied me with some Blind Blake info from that interview in a discussion. I thought I'd posted Bob Koester's lengthy 1980 Come For To Sing obituary but searching has failed to reveal it.
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records - Thirdman / Revenant Records
Post by: jostber on January 08, 2014, 06:09:45 AM
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/music/posts/la-et-ms-paramount-records-history-20131208,0,161947.story?page=2#axzz2pYfWvyo1 (http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/music/posts/la-et-ms-paramount-records-history-20131208,0,161947.story?page=2#axzz2pYfWvyo1)
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records - Thirdman / Revenant Records
Post by: bnemerov on January 22, 2014, 05:05:10 PM
here's an article in a audiophile magazine---an interview with Dean Blackwood. He addresses the copyright, recorded sources and MP3 issues. much more informative than Jack White's romantic notions.
http://www.stereophile.com/content/paramount-records-cabinet-wonders (http://www.stereophile.com/content/paramount-records-cabinet-wonders)

best,
bruce
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records - Thirdman / Revenant Records
Post by: Rivers on January 22, 2014, 07:41:36 PM
Woo!
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records - Thirdman / Revenant Records
Post by: allenlowe on February 21, 2014, 11:38:06 AM
just a word about the sonics - though variable they are the clearest I have ever heard for Paramounts; a good restorer accepts the limits of what he can do with damaged material, and it's clear they have done the best possible job with these (I've listened to about 15 volumes out of 32 CDs which I transferred from MP3s). No matter what the legalities, no one else would ever have done this with this much important material. So I am grateful.
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records - Thirdman / Revenant Records
Post by: Gilgamesh on May 05, 2014, 07:44:33 PM
No replies since February? I guess few people here are shelling out the bucks for this, and that doesn't bode well for depleting the 5,000 copies OR for Volume 2. Probably a good idea to wait a while longer to see if sluggish sales drive down the price to something more reasonable.
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records-thirdman records
Post by: Gilgamesh on May 05, 2014, 07:47:41 PM

Alex's [van der Tuuk] 2003 book of the same name (from which most all graphics and photos in this set come) is selling for $500.00+ on the used market.


That is quite shocking. I remember complaining having to pay 39.99 or whatever it was when it was new. Why in the world is it selling for $500 now? Does anything with the name "Paramount Records" on it start turning to gold after 10 years?
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records-thirdman records
Post by: Stuart on May 05, 2014, 10:25:21 PM

Alex's [van der Tuuk] 2003 book of the same name (from which most all graphics and photos in this set come) is selling for $500.00+ on the used market.


That is quite shocking. I remember complaining having to pay 39.99 or whatever it was when it was new. Why in the world is it selling for $500 now? Does anything with the name "Paramount Records" on it start turning to gold after 10 years?

Selling doesn't necessarily mean anyone is buying.

You probably missed my earlier post to this thread.

http://www.mainspringpress.com/book_paramount.html (http://www.mainspringpress.com/book_paramount.html)

http://www.mainspringpress.com/home.html (http://www.mainspringpress.com/home.html)
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records - Thirdman / Revenant Records
Post by: Gilgamesh on May 07, 2014, 06:07:56 AM
In a review of the Paramount box, this page cites a new BBC documentary called "American Epic," about the music business in  the 20s and 30s.

http://musicofourheart.me/2013/11/02/american-epic-first-installmentthe-rise-and-fall-of-paramount-records-volume-one-1917-1927-nov-19/ (http://musicofourheart.me/2013/11/02/american-epic-first-installmentthe-rise-and-fall-of-paramount-records-volume-one-1917-1927-nov-19/)

This quote jumped out:

?It?s the story of the American recording industry from 1926 to 1936, this incredible occurrence. In 1926 the record industry fell off 80 per cent in one year because of the proliferation of radio in the big cities. The middle-class people and the wealthy people who were able to buy radios no longer wanted to buy records, because they could get music for free ? why buy a record? So the recording companies, having equipment and nothing to do, decided to go down south, where people didn?t have electricity, and therefore didn?t have radios. So they started recording people down south ? they started recording the poorest people in the country and broadcasting their voices all around the world.? ? T-Bone Burnett

This sounds like romantic nonsense to me. Am I wrong? I wasn't aware of the record business entering a huge depression in 1926 because of radio. And southern field recordings started in 1923, I think.

It seems like 1926-29 were actually a boom period for the record business in all genres.
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records - Thirdman / Revenant Records
Post by: Gumbo on May 07, 2014, 07:42:26 AM
There was a period where record companies wouldn't allow 78s to be played on the radio and most radio music was live. When did that start and finish? Does it coincide?
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records - Thirdman / Revenant Records
Post by: Stuart on May 07, 2014, 08:54:12 AM
Gilamesh: It's one of those things where we'd have to look at all the facts--sales figures by region, demographics, etc.--both of records and radio. Commercial broadcast radio really didn't get started until about 1920 or so and the radios were not cheap--and perhaps were a "novelty" at first, so I guess one could make the case that time and disposable income shifted to the radio from records. But did this actually happen and to what degree? And what were the actual details--what really happened and why? I don't know.

Gumbo: I'm hazy on this, but I believe that you may be thinking about the musicians union strike that occurred  during the WWII years. Here's the Wiki entry:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1942%E2%80%9344_musicians%27_strike (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1942%E2%80%9344_musicians%27_strike)

Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records - Thirdman / Revenant Records
Post by: Gumbo on May 07, 2014, 10:04:08 AM
I was thinking more of this, Stuart but it seems that there was no big change in 1926.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_jockey
Quote
In 1935, American radio commentator Walter Winchell coined the term "disc jockey" (the combination of disc, referring to the disc records, and jockey, which is an operator of a machine) as a description of radio announcer Martin Block, the first announcer to become a star. While his audience was awaiting developments in the Lindbergh kidnapping, Block played records and created the illusion that he was broadcasting from a ballroom, with the nation?s top dance bands performing live. The show, which he called Make Believe Ballroom, was an instant hit. The term "disc jockey" appeared in print in Variety in 1941.[10]

Prior to this, most music heard on radio was live; most radio stations had an orchestra or band on the payroll.[11][12] The Federal Communications Commission also clearly favored live music, providing accelerated license approval to stations promising not to use any recordings for their first three years on the air.[10] Many noted recording artists tried to keep their recorded works off the air by having their records labeled as not being legal for airplay.[13] It took a Federal court ruling in 1940 to establish that a recording artist had no legal right to control the use of a record after it was sold.[10]
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records - Thirdman / Revenant Records
Post by: Stuart on May 07, 2014, 12:59:42 PM
Thanks, Gumbo. Growing up in the 50's and 60's in NJ, i used to hear Make Believe Ballroom on the radio at home and at my  friend's houses as it was popular with our parents.

There are probably good histories written about these subjects--both the one raised by you and Gilamesh's question. The Communications dept. of a college or university might be the place to look for leads--courses, syllabuses, etc. After all, it is media related.

A while back there was a Ken Burn's PBS show, "Empire of the Air," that was based on Tom Lewis's book, but I don't think it focused in at any point on the info we're after. The next time I'm down at the UW, I'll see what  I can find out. They have a page re: Communications, so someone might be able to help. FYI:

http://guides.lib.washington.edu/commstudies (http://guides.lib.washington.edu/commstudies)

I'll check with the Music dept as well, if time permits.
Title: Re: Story of Paramount Records - Thirdman / Revenant Records
Post by: Stuart on May 08, 2014, 12:31:02 AM
Gilamesh: Did a quick Google of "record sales by year 1920's" and came up with the following which I skimmed:

(edited to put Stan Leibowitz's article first)

Here's an article, "THE ELUSIVE SYMBIOSIS: THE IMPACT OF RADIO ON THE
RECORD INDUSTRY," in PDF by Stan Leibowitz:

http://tinyurl.com/p68es89 (http://tinyurl.com/p68es89)

And the others:

http://www.pbs.org/jazz/exchange/exchange_race_records.htm (http://www.pbs.org/jazz/exchange/exchange_race_records.htm)

http://www.fishpiss.com/archives/128/3 (http://www.fishpiss.com/archives/128/3)

http://www.recording-history.org/HTML/musicbiz3.php (http://www.recording-history.org/HTML/musicbiz3.php)

http://tinyurl.com/prbsach (http://tinyurl.com/prbsach)

https://78records.wordpress.com/tag/race-record-sales-in-the-1920s/ (https://78records.wordpress.com/tag/race-record-sales-in-the-1920s/)

http://www.mainspringpress.com/victorsales.html (http://www.mainspringpress.com/victorsales.html)

http://www.mainspringpress.com/book_rec20.html (http://www.mainspringpress.com/book_rec20.html)

Just the first Google page--my take away is that, Yeah, there was definitely an effect, but not the 80% drop that supposedly was stated by Burnett.  His other statements don't seem to accord with the facts, either. IMHO, impressionistic, not analytic. Looks like it originated at Uncut, quoting from something he said at Cannes.

http://www.uncut.co.uk/jack-white-and-t-bone-burnett-working-on-music-documentary-news (http://www.uncut.co.uk/jack-white-and-t-bone-burnett-working-on-music-documentary-news)

One or two of the pieces were shaky, but the proverbial grain of salt is always in order when consulting info found on the Interwebs. A few of the links were included as they may be of interest, although not central to Gilamesh's question.

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